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Author Topic: Astatic Microphone info  (Read 5266 times)
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ka2pbo
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« on: February 15, 2014, 04:45:22 PM »

Don't know if this is the right place to post this but I received this with a mic I just picked up. I think the balanced configuration is what Don , K4KYV refers to in his Tech Talks.Its good info to have.


Rick  KA2PBO


* ASTATIC MICS 1a.jpg (123.54 KB, 1700x1093 - viewed 517 times.)

* ASTATIC MICS2 a.jpg (153.38 KB, 1700x1414 - viewed 471 times.)
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W3GMS
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 09:10:28 PM »

I know Don has been using the D-104 in a balanced manner for years.  Obviously that works very well but I have never found the need to use it in a balanced configuration.  Many users, including me just use a FET loaded with a high value gate to ground resistor.  Since the element itself have a very high output, a preamp in most cases is not necessary.  Accordingly a "Source Follower" works well to drive transmitters that do not have the required high input impedance of the crystal cartridge.  Another advantage of putting a FET in the base of the microphone stand, is that now you can run a much lower impedance line over to the transmitter.  Lower impedance lines generally do not pick up hum as easily as a Hi Z line.

Joe, W3GMS         
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wa3dsp
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 11:33:11 PM »

As Joe said it is a simple matter to match a D104 to any rig. I use the attached circuit to drive all of my HF rigs, low or high impedance and it works very well. This is built into the base of the microphone. Most all modern rigs supply +8V at the mic connector. If not you can create it externally or use a 9V battery if you have contacts in the mic to disconnect it with PTT.

I built a mic switch box to switch between my various rigs that switches power also and when older rigs are connected I supply an external 8V. When I restored my Ranger I changed the rear panel mic connector to an 8 pin wired Kenwood standard and added an 8 volt regulator in the Ranger to supply the voltage to the mic.

* D104 source follower circuit.pdf (20.62 KB - downloaded 264 times.)
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ka2pbo
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 04:04:11 PM »

 The  main reason I posted the info was for the guys who don't why everyone says to change the grid resistor to 5Meg or better. Everyone says you need 5 Meg or better if your running a D-104 type mic but its nice to know where that number came from ; not just a number someone through out there.  I also was not recommending a particular type of input circuitry, it was just cool to see where Don got it from  and how far back the Astatic CO. recommended it. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

73

Rick
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W3GMS
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 04:18:48 PM »

The  main reason I posted the info was for the guys who don't why everyone says to change the grid resistor to 5Meg or better. Everyone says you need 5 Meg or better if your running a D-104 type mic but its nice to know where that number came from ; not just a number someone through out there.  I also was not recommending a particular type of input circuitry, it was just cool to see where Don got it from  and how far back the Astatic CO. recommended it. Maybe I should have worded it differently.
73
Rick

Hi Rick,

I think it was "somewhat" clear, but still a bit of ambiguity!   Most of the op's here being AM ops and many striving for great audio do realize why the resistor for loading has to be very high.   Your information if nothing else reinforces the fact which most people realize! 

73,
Joe, W3GMS 
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KA2DZT
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 08:32:48 PM »

I also know that Don uses the balanced input circuit.  It may be the one shown earlier or something very similar.  I think he has two 10meg grid resistors IIRC.  Don was talking about this only about a month ago on 75M.

Fred
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ka2pbo
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 09:07:07 AM »

Sorry; thought there were some newcomers here occasionally. My mistake; I will remove the info ASAP

Rick
 
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KA2DZT
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 09:35:59 AM »

Sorry; thought there were some newcomers here occasionally. My mistake; I will remove the info ASAP

Rick
 
"PBO" 

Rick,

There are newcomers here, so no need to remove anything.  There are a lot of oldcomers that can benefit from from stuff posted on this forum.  I learn stuff here everyday and I've been a ham for 53 years.

Fred
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 09:45:39 AM »

No Rick, leave it up. I'll bet I wasn't the only one fascinated with that old Astatic documentation.

Anything hand drawn on an easel with a T square along with "typewriter.doc"  commercially is gold.

It really needs to be archived on AMfone or the AM Window.

..Steve , huzman?
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RICK  *W3RSW*
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 10:00:32 AM »

Sorry; thought there were some newcomers here occasionally. My mistake; I will remove the info ASAP

Rick
 
"PBO" 

Rick,

Your overeating!  Leave it up!  More information never hurts.  Welcome to AMfone!!

Joe, GMS
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AB2EZ
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"Season's Greetings" looks okay to me...


« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 12:42:28 PM »

As a minor comment / suggestion on the source follower design shown in W3DSP's earlier post (attached schematic):

As shown, the back-to-back capacitors C3 and C4 appear to have been selected to enable this circuit to feed a very low load impedance, while blocking DC of either polarity. For example, if the load impedance were 100 ohms, the 3dB rolloff frequency associated with C3 and C4 in series (50uF net capacitance) would be 31Hz.

On the other hand, not being a fan of using electrolytic capacitors back-to-back in this way (for a variety of reasons... particularly in this kind of application), and taking into account that in many (but not all) applications, the load impedance that this circuit will look into will be 10k ohms or more... I suggest that C3 and C4 be replaced by a single 1uF or a 0.47UF non-polar capacitor.

In cases where this circuit will be feeding a 600 ohm load (a microphone input specified to have a 600 ohm input impedance), I suggest using a small 10,000 ohm: 600ohm matching transformer (the impedance values are not critical) between the output of this circuit and the 600ohm load.

As an aside, the Thevenin equivalent circuit of a typical vintage D104 microphone cartridge is a voltage source in series with a .001uF capacitor*. Many people are not familiar with the properties of a signal source that behaves like a voltage source in series with a capacitor (not a resistor).

To keep the .001uF series capacitance, that is intrinsic to the microphone, from rolling off low frequencies (down to a maximum 3dB low cut frequency of 30Hz, for example), it is necessary that the resistive load that the microphone is looking into have an impedance that is greater than the impedance of this .001uF capacitor at 30Hz (in this example). The impedance of the .001uF capacitor at 30Hz is 5.3M ohms.

That is why one needs to have a 5M ohm or larger resistive load on the microphone. [There are other ways to deal with this requirement... but using a 5M ohm or larger resistive load works fine]

If one uses a 1M ohm resistive load (like the grid leak resistor used in the microphone preamplfier in many boat anchor transmitters), the low cut 3dB roll off frequency will be 159Hz.

*I have measured newer D-104 cartridges that have a significantly higher equivalent series capacitance (around 0.01uF). With those cartridges, the minimum load resistance value will be lower. With 0.01uF of equivalent series capacitance, a 500k ohm (or higher) value of load resistance should be fine ... to achieve a low cut 3dB rolloff frequency of 30Hz.

Stu



As Joe said it is a simple matter to match a D104 to any rig. I use the attached circuit to drive all of my HF rigs, low or high impedance and it works very well. This is built into the base of the microphone. Most all modern rigs supply +8V at the mic connector. If not you can create it externally or use a 9V battery if you have contacts in the mic to disconnect it with PTT.

I built a mic switch box to switch between my various rigs that switches power also and when older rigs are connected I supply an external 8V. When I restored my Ranger I changed the rear panel mic connector to an 8 pin wired Kenwood standard and added an 8 volt regulator in the Ranger to supply the voltage to the mic.

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Stewart ("Stu") Personick. Pictured: (from The New Yorker) "Season's Greetings" looks OK to me. Let's run it by the legal department
Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2014, 01:30:00 PM »

Well covered by Stu in the Handbook post below.

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=8975.0
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