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Author Topic: Ideas for Simple Medium Power AM Rig  (Read 35197 times)
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VE3LYX
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« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2012, 10:34:05 PM »

I came back but I think "maw" hadnt finished because when I let go of PTT he was still talking. I only had a minute or so . He had burned through  31 minutes so far this morning. I had to go. Sorry.I ran out of time.
I cant help what the lads in Picton do. This QTH has never been good . I used to live up the road about a 1/2 mile and it was phenomenal . I used a A3 cushcraft there. When I moved here I put it up at the same height. no cigar. I finally sold it to a Russian fellow from TO along with a homebrew 4x250 Hb linear. I played with several set ups and found a vertical worked well here. I was on my inverted L this morning. I can switch to the inverted Vee double bander. Sometimes it works better sometimes not. As the winter closes in it will improve dramatically I suspect.
I am getting ready to go back to finishing my Suppressor grid modulated simplified 1154 circuit. It is about 1/2 done. I am hoping you get your lil fellow on air too. I can hear pretty well here I never use the TX antenna for the RX. I use a 12 inch loop for my CW work on a 12sl7 regen. It can hear anything. I use which ever  antenna I am not tx ing on for the rx here upstairs in the commercail equipment shack. Downstairs I use a beverage for my ears and an inverted L for TX. I could hear everyone this morning. Bill was weak. Mike was solid but not super strong. Ken had a bit of QSB but was readable and you were hurting my ears . Very strong in here.  
Don VE3LYX
BTW I have a Tranco 7-41 transformer. Cant find any specs on it. Any leads?
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« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2012, 07:11:32 AM »

OK on Sunday morning Don. Maybe get in there earlier or something. That HB 4-250 amp sounds/would sound good now with your arrangement now.

I have/use a 2000ft. beverage/longwire for listening. Its pointed to the NNE. Its great to bring in DX from over the pole etc. but it almost eliminates the local signals here. It is a very quiet listening antenna though.

I brought up the fellow in Picton as a comparable for me here in listening out for signals from your area. Huh Can you git your 830S on there and we could do a comparison/test sometime over the holidays.

Al
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VE3AJM
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« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2012, 07:17:32 AM »

There was one of those transformers for sale on Ebay recently. You could ask the seller a question about it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/212-NOS-TRANCO-7-41-11-62-TRANSFORMER-/370683117830?

Al
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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2012, 08:07:54 PM »

2000ft! Wow. I have 136ft I think if memory serves me. Still very good for listening as you pointed out. I got the 80M inverted L up another 5 feet in the middle today. A bit more and it will be free and up another 3ft or so.
I looked on Ebay. He doesnt know any more then me I see. I will have to measure it I guess one by one. Should have a bit of a load I think to be relative. Even a Meg-ohm or two would be better then nothing. It is from a half assembled ICS Oscilloscope kit a friend found in an old house he bought.  Spent this afternoon working on the supressor grid AM transmitter. Got the big tube all wired . Now I need to wire the modulator and the osc into the main circuit. I changed a few things as I have some preferences (IE I like link coils, as opposed to coil taps, for coupling out of the osc and I dont need a CW option nor a EM mic option as I want to ue it with a period correct carbon mic)
Don VE3LYX


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Don VE3LYX<br />Eng, DE & petite Francais
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« Reply #54 on: December 26, 2012, 10:42:03 PM »

Earlier in this thread the 6sa7 mixer tube tx was mentioned. I have one I built and originally used a 6sl7 in the final. First triode section driving triode then switched it to parallel triode RF PA driven by the modulated 6sa7 which is also the oscillator. I had subbed in a 6bl7 which while having the same pinout as a 6sl7 is a rather robust tube. I was doing some measuring on my other Hb rig for Power out and decided to test the 6sa7 rig as well. First with the 6bl7 then I decided to try the 6sl7 back in place. I didnt really expect much difference , same PS so why would there be much difference but there was. While neither is huge power the 6bl7 pushed out 3 times the power of the 6sl7.  Very interesting to me. 
Don Ve3LYX
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« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2012, 09:46:31 PM »

That series of dual triode tubes are cool.

I'm wondering if the PS and filament transformer would handle a 6AS7...6080..or 6336...those tubes would make great cathode follower direct coupled audio driver tubes to drive class B modulator grids.
I know they were widely used as voltage regulator tubes in some Lambda and other regulated power supplies.

Al VE3AJM
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« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 03:25:21 PM »

It would be cool to run a 6sa7 and a 6as7. I have several PSs . None too fancy. one is 800 volts B+ no load and very robust.
No DX60, I heard what you said. I want a contact again on the homebrew. I am going to try till I succeed then I will fire up the Dx 60 again. I may anyway. Today I reworked my 6293 Rf PA. I had been cheating using my HD Pi network Hd antenna tuner for the final tuned circuit and did not have one in the Amp. Today I made one up , removed the cap coupling in the output. Built a parallel tuned circuit robbing a variable cap from my 45 TNT (already replaced it with a 1920s bakelite version so it is still operational) Link coupled it out which floats the output free of the other circuits which I like as a matter of fact. I tryed it. It tunes well, dips plate smartly . Will try it next time I hear you fellows on. Tuned up on or about 3725. Feeding a base loaded 80M vertical clamped to the rear deck railing. Power is good, freq is right. Hopefully it will all come together. Once it does I will go back at my ARC5 tx and get it on AM as well. Waiting on some filter caps from TO so I can finish a 600 volt supply for it. 347 volts is too low for good power or real good power, the 800 volt supply scares me when it is on there. just a bit too much I fear. 600 V I think would be perfect under load.
Don VE3LYX


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Don VE3LYX<br />Eng, DE & petite Francais
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« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2013, 06:12:07 PM »

I love the 80m vertical ant that you have there Don. The new caps should help that PS. All said this morning in good humour Don. And now I know that you're listening in too. lol... Grin
BTW, Ken and Bob were both stronger than Tim was..just conditions thismorning I suppose.

Al
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« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 09:24:15 PM »

No offence taken. I understood . Nice to be missed even. Very interesting here today. I could hear you fine , On the beverage I could hear everyone but on any of the other antennas even the good ones Ken was zip and Tim was moderate which is rare. On the beverage all were good although at different strengths. I am having trouble spotting the HB rig on freq. The Rxs downstairs are too close so it isnt where it appears. ,Probably blocks the input (FET front end) and sneaks in through the If circuits. I turned the rig on and tuned it to  HR 10 upstairs which is on 3725. Hopefully that will do the trick. Very hard to judge the signal. I have a osc scope  also Hb but it has no amplifier and functions only with a higher powered rig like my TS830S. I have a 40 meter monitor which also works for spotting  that is little more than a glorified crystal set. I should make one for 80 too I guess. It is very practical on 40M for putting on freq and monitoring modulation. 
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2013, 07:32:28 PM »

Things are progressing. Did some testing of the 80 Meter vertical using a poor boy tester. A bulb socket and bulb from Lowes Science projects hardware and a loop and a bit of hook up wire wound around the loading coil form above the coil up where it is just wire going straight up. Test looked very good. Bulb is full brillance plus (was half brilliance before when I first put it up.) The reworked antenna loads very well. Makes the Rf amp grunt a bit.  Did some field strength tests today with a bit of help. At 2 miles away unmodulated carrier is easily picked up on a hand held portable while sitting in the car. The QRP CW  rig wont do that on the same handheld and I have worked the Carolinas and Maine with it so I know we have enuf to be heard at a distance under good or exceptional conditions. At just under a mile signal gets strong like you are too close.  Parts I ordered from TO to raise PS voltage to 600 volts have been sent but have not arrived. So I am still at 347v under load. (On a good day Line voltage here is not high either at 110 to 112.) Still set is working well it seems . Modulation can be clearly seen in the cathode circuit #52 lamp I use to keep the grid negative. New tank circuit tunes very nicely. Very definate. Nothing ambiguous about the tune up. Now I need an exceptional day and someone listening on or around 3725 and all will be well. Today I could copy the Ontario Tradesmens Net downstairs on the beverage but upstairs on the inverted L was not too good.  The beverage receiving antenna surprises me almost daily. Spooky quiet noisewise but really has good ears for signals. I should have had one 30 years ago. Like so many I just didnt get it.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2013, 01:31:25 PM »

Here is a peak under the lid of the homebrew AM transceiver.
left hand side is a regenerative 2 tube receiver and to the right of the aluminum shield is the transmitter section. The common single control variable cap tunes both RX and Tx . On transmit the rx osc is deprived of B plus and visa versa on recieve for the TX osc. Other then grid resistors (grid leaks) the oscillators (a regen is just an oscillator that isnt quite oscillating)are identical and are Hartleys. Both use 1/2 of a 12sl7 dual triode. In the RX the other half is used for a rf amp or buffer of sorts and a bit of audio amp and feeds that to a 50l6 beam power Audio amp which drives a speaker easily. In the Tx the other half of the 12sl7 there is used to modulate the screen of the 50l6 Rf power amp  and is driven by an antique  style carbon mic circuit. The battery is visable in the photo and I cheated here as it is a 9 volt. While the osc/regen tunes both 80m and 40m continuously the RF PA requires a switch to pad it for 80m . The board at the rear is a voltage doubler for the Rf PA giving it around 250 volts plus under load. The unit is otherwise a transfomerless PS  deal . I took this photo today as I was working on moving the freq more centred on the dial and making the Rx and Tx track as close as possible. Got it pretty close but may add RIT to perfect it and give some wiggle room. I dont have a small variable trimmer cap with a decent end or shaft so I didnt do it today. Radio is built from junked radios. almost entirely. Case is a 1920s empty radio cabinet given to me by a neighbour. This is my favourite project. Trying it on 3725 as often as possible.
Don VE3LYX


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« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2013, 05:48:14 PM »

I seem to be obsessed wih low and medium power AM. Today I had a brainwave (or a brain fart ) I wondered if a complete AM transmitter could be built with one dual triode. My all time favourite twin triode is a 12ax7 and its cousins. I searched the junk box and came up with a 12ax7 and a brand new socket. I wired it for 6 volt use (white twisted pair is the heater conections. ) I joined the plates together and wound the hook up wire around a low value resistor 5 times on the way out making a parasitic suppresssor in the process. A rf value (in pfs ) is soldered to that and will transport the rf to the parallel tank crcuit. Cathodes are both grounded anyway so that is nothing new. One grid is a crystal oscillator. I found in my junk box a 28.76 crystal and built the normal crystal osc circuit on that side of the tube. On the other side I built  an audio amp circuit with a .01 cap for input from the mic. See mic jack in photo. (RCA phono jack) Will it work? I suspect so but may take a bit of rubbing. It only took a few minutes to build so if it is a wash nothing lost. I built it for ten Meters since when it is open you can be heard around the world in a whisper. If all goes well I will make the output coil / cap circuit in the morning and fire it up. I also need to find a compatible mic but I have several options.
We shall see tomorrow.
Don


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Don VE3LYX<br />Eng, DE & petite Francais
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« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2013, 06:50:04 PM »

"  I seem to be obsessed wih low and medium power AM "

Don, there is help. You just have to reach out and ask fer it.

It has been said that " it is better to put fire in the wire, than to curse with QRP."

We are here to help.

klc
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« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2013, 08:56:05 PM »

If a tree falls in the forest ....
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« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2013, 10:29:20 PM »

But is is fun. And a challenge too. I just love it!
Tank is made and hooked up. Fixed cap with accordian coil for now. GDPer says 28.7mcs right now so I should be able to find a sweet spot. Also almost forgot I have to make an RFC for the plate lead before fire up. I do appreciate the hi power stuff but it is a bit out of my league these days. I like to see if I had nothing what could I make that would work and how well would it work. I peaked I think when I made the POW radio in a birdhouse. I made a variable cap from soup can lids and some brass bolts removed from old furniture. Pie plate and paper with thumb tacks  for grid leak cap and thumb tacks and pencil lead on the wood for gridleak resistor. Stole 20 inches of house wiring (live) when XYL wanted a switch in the kitchen moved . That became the coil (hartley circuit centre tapped.) Some old fine wire from a  discarded part wound around a broken pencil became the RFC Found a discarded 52 tube and handmade a wooden socket. Powered it up with discarded batteries left for dead. Since I had no regen control just kept adding batteries till I heard a hiss. First station recved was a  Broadcaster broadcasting a piano recital from Barcelona Spain. Had the camera going and between my ear and the broken earphone my friend found at the dump so you can hear its first breath on You tube. Might not turn your crank but it sure was exciting for me. The hartley regen of course is just a hartley transmitter with not enuf power to quite oscillate and a set of phones (in this case just one ear piece) in the power circuit sensing the varying load. After assuing that it worked everytime I tried it I dug up some good batteries and raised the voltage to above 108 (11 nine volts )and tried it on tx on Cw . Worked fine. Pretty stable too.
That was a real fun project and it is sitting just to my right behind me right now.
I guess everyone has their favourites. This one I dont know if it will work or not but for the time spent it is worth it to me to find out. Cost so far? Zilch!
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2013, 11:43:27 AM »

Wellll, it could be worse. You didn't build anything in a tuna can.... or have u HuhHuh


klc
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« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2013, 07:58:57 PM »

I do have the one built with a half dozen radio shack Rf chokes and three transistors or so. Still works too. Best low power rig is my TTL chip crystal osc. I use it for spotting the regen when using it for QSOs then pop the crystal back in the front of the 50l6 bare essentails transmitter.(EI 1970)
I had my 1920s style TNT rig on just now. (7110 kcs)Big 45 tube with 13 watts in. the soft orange glow of the twin heaters, the hum from the PS transformers as you key. The bright flash of the Rf indicator lamp and loop mounted just close to the huge copper tank coil and the big 1920 variable cap with its matching knob. Whats not to like?
The 12ax7 does not want to run. I know it is something stupid I did but so far I havent found it. Should have done all this as a teenager back when I knew everything. My mortality is catching up with me I fear.
Don
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« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2013, 11:20:59 AM »

 I know it is something stupid
;.) Apparently you have to put the monitoring revcr on the proper band. Who knew?
Anyway it works. Pretty good for a first try. The 10 m crystal was no good. IT wouldnt go in my test osc either so I quickly just built a 20M hartley tank for it . Got it on 14.2 right now. First I tried the osc. Strong steady signal . Not scary but surprising. Got that deep sound , "definate" I would say. Then I killed power and clip-leaded a set of 2000 ohm phones (aka dual dynamic mics) to the phono jack. Fired it back up to ear deafening feedback. Phones were facing the monitoring recvr a few feet away. Phone cord bothers the osc as do my hands . I will have to RFC that side I guess. So what is the point of all this? Maybe a pair of 811s on Am with no mod transformer. Cathodes grounded and plates tied together. One Rf one AF. Why? Because I have built several successful projects with audio and Rf in the same tube. Some pentagrid converters and some dual triodes. One even is a osc in one section and mic amp in the other. They work fine so this was a logical step for me anyway to try. 
Actually I have a dual 6L6 RF PA (parallel pair ) and could just unhook one control grid and try modulating it. At the very least it is intriqing to me.
I have a portable 12ax7 Am rig (rx tx)planned to build in a file box so this stuff is not wasted.
Don
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« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2013, 08:50:15 PM »

Further test. Today while in the shack I swapped the 2000 ohms phones I had for a mic for an 8 ohm speaker sitting there with a plug. I fired up the little rig and turned on the monitor recvr. It came to life on the exact same spot. (always good!) I dropped something on the bench on my way back to the stool and heard it plainly in the speaker of the monitor recvr. I decided it must be a microphonic tube. But it isnt. The dumb thing actually works. Right now it is a "dead bug build" just lying on the bench, no chassis, nothing monted but it works. The voice is low or very bassy but I think that is just a matter of microphone match. Been down that road before with the mixer tube (6sa7)set. So I am going to build it in its proper box and continue development. I may even try a real proper microphone. Rig was behaving properly on this mic setup. No trouble with the hand cap thing.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2013, 03:21:31 PM »

Hey Don

How did those caps work out for yur HV PS deal. I picked up a whack of 2E26 tubes the other week. The guy was going to throw them out. Most are still in the box. I know some guys don't like them or the 6146 for audio werk..and I know there are better tubes to use, if you have them....but I have these now. A pair in AB1 with a good match to the mod transfomer should work FB, if it was all designed correctly. A pair of 2E26s were used as a cathode follower audio driver in the BTA1R broadcast tx.

Al VE3AJM
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« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2013, 11:07:55 PM »

I have the big supply going but I discoveredwith my PW AM rig it is not more power I need out but more drive in. For the extra voltage I didnt get a huge gain so I went back to what I had before. I am putting out near as I can tell close to 15 watts. That should be enuf for a QSO with somebody. It is a lot more then I had when I first talked to Tim on 40M a year ago. Now he could just tell I was there and we did do a bit but for this rig that is a long haul. Accross the lake to Rochester would probably be more practical. I am not comfy with big voltage. Dont know why. I had a Viewstar (was Hammond) Linear years ago and simply did not like using it on slop bucket or CW.  The one tube linear I built is working so well I hate to push it into the danger zone. My brother is down for a day or so. he is a Electronic tech and used to designing and using a radio range set up for EMI testing. I asked him if he was up for some extensive Field strength testing. He said he would if we can find a good time. I guess that is what iIneed.. Someone a mile or so away to monitor and make sure I am on freq I think I am, I have sufficient modulation to be heard beyond the barnyard fence and my antennas are working as I think they are. Hard to verify this by yourself.
Meanwhile back in the shack downstairs the 12ax7 rig is going into its chassis and box. This afternoon I tuned it up on 10 m for a test. Still works So it is time to carry on. It is going into a card file box about 7x7 inches with a folding lid. there will be a 12ax7 regen on the other side of the chassis and a vibrator /110 supply with a voltage doubler for the tx in the lid. Now I have to find  small but reliable 110/12 volt transformer.  This rig has more output then my PW Am rig so I can use it portable from the car battery etc or plug it in to the wall socket and pump it thru the 6293 linear. Since it has a lot more drive it should make decent power that way. Once I have the tx firmly mounted I can continue rubbing on it till I get it where I want. Till tonite it was just lying on the bench dead bug style with nothing fastened down. It will tune from 20 to 10 M easily. I may install a low value variable and switch some padders in and out to get 10 15 and 20M on the same coil. 
Don
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« Reply #71 on: January 17, 2013, 07:42:10 PM »

12ax7 Am transmitter is now installed in the small file box. Transmitter is essentially complete and is on the left.  Mic goes in the jack . Antenna now uses the RCA phono jack (as does my DX60b)
On the right the 12ax7 regen is underway. Both circuits are very close as in both are hartley based so coils are indentical. Rx will tune through continuosly while Tx will be switched from band to band and will only have a portion of the band available so as to make accidental out of band operation impossible. Switch in empty hole at top will switch both antenna from RX to TX and B plus from RX to TX. (dpdt)
Same tube so mixup is impossible. Centre control is regen control . Phones of course go in the right hand jack. 12V vibrator power supply I hope will go in the lid.
Don VE3LYX
Going to finallize transmitter and test it this afternoon . I  may just leave it as a mono band unit. No point in overcomplicating a simple rig. I think i will tune everything to 28mcs  just above the code portion.


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« Reply #72 on: January 18, 2013, 03:05:45 PM »

Padded the tank into middle of 10M . It cannot reach either end which is fine by me content in the knowledge I will always be in band. I checked the rx tank as well and it is compatable BUT I am not happy with its tuning cap. It should be identical to the tx and also have limited tunng range. One of the best ways to insure a regen works good is to set it up for a specific freq plus or minus a bit so you can float around the band a bit but limited. Then you can optimze it and it will do a fantastic job, even often putting modern Rxs to shame. Here it is already to go transmitting wise. HB mic started with a lamp fixture from Home Depot. Is a good mic and has press to talk as well. I fired it up on my vibrator PS liberated from a 56 Ford radio.  It is actually quite happy on that. I use a gel cell , sometimes two (paralel) to run it. Chassis is fastened in now . Rx is about 20% done. TX is 100% done.
Don VE3LYX


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« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2013, 03:39:59 PM »

Fired up on 10M today 28.900 , Receiver almost done. Needs a switch and an INSULATED phone jack.
Soon
Don VE3LYX
ALL in the box and it still works! 10PM Sat
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« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2013, 07:37:03 AM »

Wondering what happened Sunday morning Don. I could hear you abt S8 with relatively good modulation, and then you never came back? Hope that tx is limited to one transmission every hour or something??lol  Huh Huh Wink

Al VE3AJM
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