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Author Topic: Ideas for Simple Medium Power AM Rig  (Read 35201 times)
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VE3LYX
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2012, 05:43:02 PM »

I have spent a lot of time trying different things. I put it on the 6l6 linear and it made decent power. Nothing huge,  but enuf to be effective. Doesnt matter what tube you use on the amp. 6sl7 or 6bl7, since both have sufficient drive. So on the amp I used the lighter one. I got rethinking the glowing PA tube. I didnt think the 6sa7 would push anything hard enuf for that so I decided to try something. I paralleled both sections of the twin triode. I left seperate RFCs in the plate leads and matched the other sections up so they are drive only by the 6sa7. It worked well with either the 6sl7 or the 6bl7.I currently am using the 6bl7 in the PA. I use this rig barefoot. Now. I can get it to wiggle the FS meter so it is making something besides a few  mws. I then turned my attention to the mic. I wanted it to look better. I went to Home Depot, bought some switches and shrink tube and strolled to the lamp aisle looking for ideas. PAYDIRT! They have a lamp called the Theo that looks like an old microphone. It has a halogen bulb that twists in and a weighted base. The height is adjustable by about 3 inches., It was pricey, $35 but I couldnt leave it there. A couple of hours later, I had ground the edge of the bulb at the top, popped out the lens, busted the actual lamp and removed it. I drilled through from the back opening up the holes on the contacts that were already there. I soldered the wires from my mic element to each of these contacts then taped the whole assembly. Mic cartridge to the reworked twist in bulb. I used an industrial vinyl tape that will be here long after I am gone.I clipped the power wire short and installed a 1/4 inch phone plug. I drilled the base and routed out a spot for a push button switch for push to talk and ran a wire for it taping it to the other wire every couple of inches so it looked like one. I left it a bit long so I could install a 1/8 plug on it for the push to talk and be able to have it reach that jack which is on the other side of the radio.  (It grounds the cathode (back to the set. ) which turns on the set other then heaters.) I gave it a test run. Worked good. All it needed was a spit screen. I remembered I had a small kitchen seive from CTC in my garage that I had bought for something. I wondered if it was close. EXACT fit. Here is a photo. I am calling this the HD104. (HD for Home Depot) I am really happy with the look and the function as well.
So I am running both my homebrew low power or medium power rigs on 40m as often as possible. 7120 to 7140. If your spinning the dial check there. Who knows? You might actually hear me.
Don VE3LYX


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« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 06:14:36 PM »

Built an Amp for the rigs. A bit more serious. Used a 6293 (more or less an industrial 6146B). The 50l6 in the HB transceiver drives it nicely. I havent measured it all yet but it buries the FS meter in the shack even when adjusted back to 1/4 pot setting. So whatever it is it is a lot more then before. The 6l6 pa would give it about 2/3 with pot in most senitive postion so definatley a large  improvement. PA hops in and out on its own. Stays at idle till I hit the transmit switch and returns to idle instantly. I tried everything I ever wanted to when building this one but wound up with a conventional circuit in the end. I have done testing and run in at 267 volts  with no tx on. Once I am comfy all is good I will pop it on the 580 volt supply. Bias, neutralization and input tune are all accessable from the front. Output PI setup is a very HD switchable stand alone unit I built sometime ago for all bands. Seems to work well. Oh yeah. All built on wood. It was fun trying all different types of coupling , front end tuning or not and testing to see what worked and what didnt. Cost was zero. Built from the junk box. Dont remember what I paid for the tube. Seems to me I bought two at $20 per. The other is in my DX60 now. 
Hopefully we will have enuf suds now to make everyone happy.
Don Ve3LYX
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 07:05:19 AM »

Sounds like a good project there Don. Do you have a way to measure the plate current on the final and the actual power output? I would give you a better idea of what power? the final is putting out.
I thought this thread was originally about a "medium power" AM rig..ie. in the 250w output class? Grin
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2012, 07:37:11 AM »

Sure. Of course.  
I may wire in the meter perhaps this afternoon. or I may just wire in a pair of jacks and use a light bulb indicator .By hooking in the ma meter and unscrewing the light bulb I get an actual reading.  I am however getting pretty good reading plate lamp brightness now. Seems to jive well with the actual reading in ma. Just had it on for awhile . Still works good this morning which is always a good thing.;.) I like how it "parks" so nicely when the TX is off. I may try the mixer tube rig on it this afternoon as well. I had built this circuit a long time ago and worked  Tim with it, (before I got the DX60) just hearable , with a 50l6  I refined it a bit and rebuilt the entire deal with a 6293 but since both are beam power tubes not much different other then socket pinout because of Plate cap up top. I like not having to switch the amp on and off which is why I liked this circuit I think. As soon as the tx output upsets the apple cart (grid) on she goes and it doesnt hang up coming off either so I can hear in the rx immeditaley.
Don Ve3LYx
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2012, 03:29:52 PM »

I installed a scrap meter I had from a busted RS SWR deal. I made a shunt for it. First one was too light, second was about perfect for low/middle indicating.I will calibrate it later as the meter cover merely pulls off.  I found the Quin........nt current not to my liking. A wee bit high. Grid was going 1.36 volts positive at rest. I decided to get creative. A  pair of 6146b tubes often are installed with the cathode negative about 5 ohms. This will bring it to 0 volts or just below. 5 ohm or even 20 ohm resistors are scarce here. Flashlight and dial lamp bulbs though we have lots. One, a #40, measured 5.6 ohms. I wired it into the cathode circuit and bypassed it with an 01 cap. Worked pretty good but still a bit high although certainly liveable. I had a 52 bulb. It was double the resistance. I tried it. At rest current is now just below what it is with a signal driving the grid. I was surprised to get it there. I thought it might be too far down and would shut the tube down. It works nicely.  So I now have a running light, a cathode resistor, a decent no signal current and a poor boys input power indicator all in one. It also functions as a ready light since there is no current flowing till the tube is warmed up. The big long deal in the antique box is a transceiver. Two tube regen, two tube TX , single tuning control, with screen modulation by a electro/mechanical carbon mic circuit driving a half of a 12sl7 which modulates the screen of the 50l6. No 3 hand mic is used. The amp sits next to it. A single 6293 PA, tuned input feeding the big antenna tuner but also PI output L & C next to it. Huge, crude perhaps, but F.U.N.  Everything built on wood which eliminates a lot of the shock hazards and is traditional besides. How much power? It lights the cathode resistor 52 bulb as bright as I dare on transmit but will sit for two hours at rest no trouble producing no RF till you tickle its gizard with the transceiver. I am happy. Working on a solid 500 volt B+ supply today. (rig is with full signal now measuring 342v plate between PS side of RF choke and Grd or B- )


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« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2012, 06:34:51 PM »

If you can get your tx on 3725kc Sat. morning we will listen for you Don. 8:30am..Tim is werking I think, so you'd have to settle for Ken and I and others Cheesy

Al
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« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2012, 08:54:33 PM »

Sure Al, thanks. If conditions are bad I will at least say hi anyway otherwise I will be there. .
Don Ve3LYX
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2012, 10:09:42 PM »

I made the 500+ volt power supply today. Finished and tested it about an hour ago. That made the tube sit up and take notice.  When driven about 190 ma. I will measure the voltage tomorrow. Not good to fool with dangerous stuff when you are tired. I used five 24 volt transfomers used by the heating industry. There are literly hundreds of these around for the asking. Very well made and designed to be under power forever. I joined the five 24 volt secondaries in series and fed them the 117 house power.  I also linked the matching 117 volt primaries together for what are now my secondaries. Used some 1n4004 diodes to build a simple full wave rectifier. (half a bridge basically. ) I found a matched pair of can electrolytics  of the 400 WDV and 10mf. First I taped the cans so they could not short then put them each in a section of wax paper cardboad roll. I then taped the whole deal together. I wired one section of each in series with a set of resistors wired in to keep voltage split across each and also to act as bleeder resistors. (approx 100 ohm per volt. ) I took apart an old flea market buy six volt battery charger and liberated the transformer for my filment supply. It was a centre tapped deal so I have both 6 and 12v. Unfortunately it is a bit high so I will have to cut it down about a volt under load. I found a old neon lamp and an switch in my junk box and built it all inside a 5/8 plywood enclosure. I mounted an octal socket on the lid and wired it from below. I use always and never change the 7AC tube wiring. Heaters 2&7 Plate 3  kathode 8. I wire 12v filment to pin 1 when I do as it is a nomally unused pin so if I have a 12v unit to plug in its heater will be 1 and 2 instead of 2 and 7. This way there is no chance of ruining a tube by forgetting to switch heater voltage on the PS. It is just wired for what it needs from the start. I was nervous firing it up and a bit worried about the tube heater voltage being a volt high but also aware they allow for that. Should be ok for a short test at anyway. Took a milisecond to settle down as the filters charged up and got to work but after that it was solid.  I ran it for about 20 minutes. Transformers are cool as cucumbers. No smoke nothing warm. I wasn't surprised. There is a lot of iron in five of those transfomers. Why wood? No chance of an accidental shock from a metal chassis. Cost? I had to buy a fresh supply of brass wood screws so I am out $9.56 . Everything else was in my junk box. The transformers were given to me by a local contracter who was throwing out barrels of them, brand new, unused.
Don Ve3LYX
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« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2012, 02:48:46 PM »

"There is a lot of iron in five of those transfomers."

I WAS WRONG. This was a really dumb idea. While quiet and not hot voltage sags like a New Years Resolution under heavy load. Tube likes the high voltage and is bult for extremes but once it is fully warmed voltage drops as current rises. I have another 600 volt supply but it is too noisy.  (HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. ) Anyway for now I am back on the old supply. Also the little 6sa7 rig is done and is working very nicely. Far better then I would have thought. Push to talk, full modulation , reasonable power for a PW rig. I am very happy with it. Where do the PW AM guys meet? Today I started on an antenna project. Probably another dumb idea but I learn by trying things. Even when they dont work I still learn.
Don VE3LYX


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« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2012, 08:57:49 PM »


" Today I started on an antenna project"

I don't think she'll fly in less than a full gale.


klc
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« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2012, 11:54:43 PM »

Or tie it to a hot air or weather balloon and let er go... Grin
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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 12:06:06 AM »

Theres a group that meets on 3765 on Tuesday mornings 10 am Don. Local VE3s. Dave ORP in Kingston and Dave BLB in Niagara. It used to be called the Wireless #19 Set Net. But none of the guys ever use the #19 set on this net..and they are all on slopbucket. That is one ugly looking PW rig too..not my cup of tea. I guess that tx is too PW and yellowy sounding for them to carry on a QSO with it.

Al
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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 07:20:22 AM »

Ugly? OUCH! I love making stuff. I thought the little 6sa7 mixer tube rig was cute. I make my own radios, my own fiddles, my own dragster for racing. Even the mic for the 6sa7 is one of my creations made from a halogen lamp stand. I have an aversion to factory made. Seems to me like cheating. However, I do have a nice TS830S which I have owned and operated for 30 years. I may pop up there. I have been working on my ARC5 sets and have the Rx working perfectly and the Tx on frequency and coming along but I need to make a modulator for it.
The antenna does look like a kite now that you mention it. I will finsh it today and test it with the GDO for tuning and then the Impedance meter if it is where I can use it. I found a version of it in a 1925 Radio News. At worse it can be my Rx antenna. At best I will be able to burn a very directional hole in the atmosphere to Bethany. While searching for info on the web I discovered so many vastly different reports on multi and single turn loops I decided they were for the most part blowing smoke and dont really know. It is like that in the race engine business too so I know what baloney sounds like. There if in doubt I tested till I found out. It paid me back huge and I began to know rather then guess or act like a parrot repeating someone elses baulderdash. I am hoping it is so here too. When there are several opinions most are wrong I have found. Smokey Yunick once said "One good experiment beats 1000 expert opinions. " I have found it so as well. When i began building the mixer tube deal I got sidetracked listening to others. Finally I tore it all back to just my mixer tube oscillator and modulator and rebuilt it to my original plan. A couple of minor changes and it worked. I have rubbed on it since and improved it some both audio wise and power wise. It has osc tune and PA tune with a lamp in the parallel plates RF PA circuit for a tuning indicator. I has its own speech amp and modulation control and that is centred if you know what I mean. IE mid range is about right. Audio is very good. It has press to talk. Personally I love it. Couple of watts actual output. A real fun PW AM rig. I may build it its own linear. Trouble with low level modulation is when you amplify it you get all the good and the bad ie Hum etc but this little guy is excetionally quiet so it will probably do well. Once I have everything to my liking I am duplicating it in a file box for a portable Am station with 9 pin minature tubes. (6be6 and 12ax7s ) and an old style vibrator power supply in the lid along with its own rx.
Black rig at the bottom right next to the 6sa7 rig is my T1154 sinplifiied circuit. I work on it from time to time when I am in the mood but it seems to me anyway a somewhat complicated circuit. Has to be a good day.  
Don Ve3LYX
UPDATE!
The kite antenna is up! (no pun intended)
I finished it and attached a coax connector . Tested it in upright position free of magnetic influences with my GDO. Natural freq is 4.9 mhz. Coax will act as a capacitor to some extent so I will retest it with the line OR I can put a cap in a Tim's coffee can and set it out here for 80M. I was going to short one turn and see if it would also do 40M but then I realized North American AMers on 40m other then a handful at 7295 afternoons are more or less an urban myth. Anyway I opened up an old cement slab hole for a rotating cloths hanger that was here when we came 35 years ago and made a stand in the shop to mount it for now at ground level.


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« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 12:59:43 PM »

Don,
I've immensely enjoyed looking at your works in progress.  Experimentation, logical application and the joy of building abound.  You're a true ham.  From your detailed write-ups I felt I was right along side of you.
Kudos

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« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 06:17:46 PM »

Hi Don,
I was referring to the #19 set as being ugly, not your HB gear... Cool
Any holes you burn over this way with your signal would be most welcomed for sure.
Al
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« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2012, 07:28:22 PM »

Thanks folks.
Today I got it up and running. I had read loops have a very low impedance so I made a little transformer on a piece of 1 1/4 PVC pipe . ( 9 turns of #16 wire close wound with two and 3/4 turns )approx) of stiff #12 wound over the centre. I connected the #12 to the antenna to complete the loop and connected the 9 turns of #16 to a length of 75ohm. (Cause I had it and cant buy 50 ohm anywhere nearby. ) I put a union in the 75 and conected it to a long length and bored a hole in the house above the window in my downstairs shack and fed the wire in. Maybe it was wrong but I figure if the loop is say 25 ohms then this little deal should work like a similar deal does for interstage coupling in a transmitter , PA or what have you. I know this will throw the tuned circuit off but you gotta start somewhere. I put the big long rig on 80 m and switched on the 6293 AMP and tuned everything in. It worked but could have been better. After supper I put a meter in the circuit. A HD SWR meter between tuner and antenna. Some power but not as I hoped. for some dumb reason I thought to try 40 M and tuned up on 7145 then switched on the Amp and trimmed everything. Something must be wrong. FS meter which is always on in my shack pinned its needle. So did the SWR in forward before I even got it trimmed . Had to cut both meters back on the their pots several times and it responded to tune trim real well. Tried the big  long rig out for a few CQs. Nothing back but that is not unusual this time of day.  
Aftera long CQ  saw a wee bit of smoke rising from the homemade RFC in the amps plate. The wooden dowel it is made on was getting warm. And yet plate current pre RFC was in range. So I thought I will try the other tiny 6sa7 rig and put it on the triple 6l6 amp. (one driver and two in parallel making power. ) Same power supply as I used for the previous set up. Same result. Antenna loads well for a first try. Power out according to all indications is very good. SWR was right on 2 to 1 which I know is not good but much better then 3 to 1.
I am kind of surprised and mystified by this result and have to think it through. Then I will try it again on sked with someone. Seems a bit too good to be true.
BTW, When I was feeding the 75 ohm through the windowframe I bored a second  hole and fed through a beverage Rx antenna I had installed but never used yet. Talk about no noise! I thought my rx was broke till I found a station. I also tried "the kite" on my RXs. Both liked it. It too is much quieter then what I was using although not as quiet as the beverage.
Don VE3LYX  


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« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2012, 10:25:09 PM »

Ah HA! I think I might have figured it out. I never had this Amp, the 6293, on 80m before so I didnt really know of it would tune there. I checked the input circuit and found that the tuning cap plates were full closed for the 80M test. Then I remembered. I used an old AC/Dc table radio cap for the tuning cap. because I wanted better control I hooked the two sections in series (took off only at the two fixed plate connections.)(dual section Variable cap) I had allowed for being able to switch if needed to parallel sections but never had actually tested it or wired that. (needs a couple of short wires and a DPDT switch) So I got out my trusty GDO and tested with plates fully closed as is. 4.5 mcs. Too high. Need more C to bring it down. If I switch the variable cap connections that will do it. SO whether the antenna is as good on 80m as it appears to be  40m I dont know but I do know the 6293 was unable to tune down there as is so power output would have to be low. I will experiment tomorow with switching the C around to get full 80m and 40m coverage. Then repeatthe 80m test and see. The 6sa7 and the triple 6l6 amp are only good for 40M so I could not put them down there.
Don Ve3LYX


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« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2012, 08:21:20 PM »

I found one reason for funny readings. A bad patch cable. Made a new one today. Have the Amp on 80 M now and according to the in line meter excellant power (even compared with my best of anything else down the Hb shack) however I have been fooled by goofy results before.  SWR on 80 is not good. Time to dig out the Impedance bridge and test. It is a pain because I have to supply a low power RF souce. The big amp does not like runnning there on "the kite" on 40m  but will sit all day there on 80M so for now I will leave it so. Basically I am still thinking this over. Isnt going to be easy. I can see that right now. It will be interesting though, I think. I set it up on 3725 for the weekend. Might get a chance to take one turn with it to see if it can be heard at all at a distance.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2012, 09:31:44 PM »

Last evening I added a cap in the loop. A 150 variable. The loop now works. I put a low power signal on it and walked around with a portable recieiver wth its antenna retracted.  Very interesting pattern. Strongest field is at 60 degree approx angle from the loop  quieter directly in front of it and very little at the side. Most interesting deal. Am tuned up on 3725 and will pop in there for a CQ now and then as I work away on this when ever it is not occupied.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2012, 03:18:22 PM »

I was having trouble with the loop or multi loop. Tis a whole new experience. I could not get the SWR down. I know I used 75 ohm coax (because I had it here but still could not get it down to even a readable reading on 80m.) This morning I was about to tear it all apart and forget it. While taking the coax down I saw a kink in it. (like a garden hose, really severe) I guess that is why it shouldnt be used for this.(it is just TV stuff I had.)I straightened it out and massaged it a bit to make sure the dialectric was not  totally squished and then tried it again. I got just under 3 to 1 this time. I began playing with the match  (parralel lines.) I could make it worse but not much better, Just a wee bit. The higher I go in freq the worse it gets. I played with the variable cap in the loop. It makes some difference so I noted how and what. I have been in and out what seems like a hundred times today trying , adjusting, removing, adding etc. I am actually making some progress. I can make it worse, much worse and then return to where I was and make it better again. I am going to leave it for a bit and think on it plus order some proper 50 ohm coax. The rigs and the Amps are working lovely now. Everything is now repeatable. Since this is all tubes I will operate even at that SWR if the band is active. Interesting though.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 12:30:16 PM »

The loop antenna project has been scrapped. When it was all hooked up using my gdo it was reasonant on 14 to 15 mhz. Using a loading coil of sorts of some 29 turns I was able to get it down to 9.90 mhz and with the large variable tune through (up a half Mhz. ) So it would work on 20mhz and with the loading coil on 10Mhz (which is CW only). To make it work properly on 80M I would need approx 180 feet of wire and 9 turns. And then a loop has a very low impedance (this one measured 4 ohms at the null pont on my impedance meter.) So despite the look and lack of need for severe height I scrapped that project today. Not practcal for what I was trying to do.
Don VE3LYX
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« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2012, 06:29:48 PM »

Hey Don

I heard you this morning on 3725 and called you in, but you never came back??
Bill VE3CFY was S9 here using his ricebox 25W carrier. I could hear you about S5 here. FYI.
Al
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« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2012, 06:46:06 PM »

John VE3OMA near Picton ON ran his ricebox down to 5 watts carrier and he was 10 over S9 this morning on AM.

Al
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« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2012, 08:30:13 PM »

Hi Don,
I was referring to the #19 set as being ugly, not your HB gear... Cool
Any holes you burn over this way with your signal would be most welcomed for sure.
Al

haha the #19 is somewhat ugly but there was never a more devout and perhaps paranoid following of any set except maybe in the radar crowd. Paranoid meaning a rigorous and rigid procedure required to download any technical materials from one of the chief sites for the set (they are free). The #19 must have some very fine qualities to engender that much loyalty. Hopefully I'll get to try one out some day.
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« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2012, 09:51:33 PM »

Hi Don,
I was referring to the #19 set as being ugly, not your HB gear... Cool
Any holes you burn over this way with your signal would be most welcomed for sure.
Al

haha the #19 is somewhat ugly but there was never a more devout and perhaps paranoid following of any set except maybe in the radar crowd. Paranoid meaning a rigorous and rigid procedure required to download any technical materials from one of the chief sites for the set (they are free). The #19 must have some very fine qualities to engender that much loyalty. Hopefully I'll get to try one out some day.

I might be willing to try one out too, but the collector crowd has gotten involved with these rigs now and the asking prices for complete, clean units have gone crazy. The 19 sets could be had back after the war and for years afterward, very inexpensively. Radio row in downtown Toronto had overflows of them out the front doors of the stores on Yonge St. from what I understand.
I find it strange that they have this Wireless Set #19 Phone Net, but no one actually uses the set on the Net, and they're all on slopbucket, not AM. To each their own I suppose.

Al
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