where to mount HF antenna on cargo van?

[Opcom]

I'd like to mount an HF antenna on a 2012 Ford E150 cargo van. This new kind of van has what I consider very thin sheetmetal compared to older vans like a 1995 chevrolet. I drive it every day and over the road so I'd like a transceiver or two in it.

I'm concerned that mounting a 'ball mount' to the side or rear will eventually rip the mount off from flexing the sheetmetal esp. if a CB whip is used.

I'm not sure what would be a good spot for a 'screwdriver' but that's another big lever for eventually damaging the body.

A screwdriver could cover the HF bands and the CB service at once. Maybe it could be fastened not only at the bottom but also by the top of the coil section.

I'd rather not make holes in the roof.

What HF antenna solutions have others done on a modern van?

My old 1 ton van had a huge lifesaver bumper assembly on which were mounted ham and 6M antennas adapted from military gear. The bumper stuck out about 1FT from the front of the van. This worked very well because the antennas elements were far away from the body, but that bumper reduced MPG due to wind resistance and would be too heavy for this van.

Anyone else mounted antennas on a special front bumper of any kind?

[KL7OF]

If you mount an antenna on the side or rear of the box....consider using a doubler plate(s) at least 4x the mount base size to spread the stress and twisting/bending moments over a larger area....Good Luck...

[KA8WTK]

  Some of the nicer installs I have seen on pickups and vans used a sguare tube that went from a HD trailer hitch and stuck out the side of the vehicle. It did not go into the hitch receiver, but was "stuck" into the side of the square "body" of the hitch. This did not interfere with the tailgate or doors. It also appeared very strong.

[ke7trp]

The cheap way to put a roof mount on a van or truck with thin metal is the sawblade. The saw blade attaches on the underside of the roof for support.

The old used up saw blade was once trash anyways.  The diameter of the hole fits mosts mounts.  You cant see the saw blade once you put the headliner back in. 

Win win

C

[KB2WIG]

This guy has lots 'o stuff.

http://www.k0bg.com/

klc

[Ed-VA3ES]

Some more ideas.   https://breedlovemounts.com/Home_Page.php

Check out his backing plates for ball mounts:  https://breedlovemounts.com/Backing_plates.php

[Opcom]

I've seen vans with a rear bumper mount or trailer hitch mount but the K0BG writings complain that those don't provide a good ground plane for HF. There is also the issue of the antenna being only 8-10" from the rear door.

It was said the ground plane has to be under the antenna not beside it.

It might be worthwhile to revisit the rear door as a location. In certain areas it's pretty solid. The place around the edge of where the rear window mounts is exceptionally solid. Take out the glass and put in a 1/8" steel sheet and off to the body shop for paint?

I'm afraid to put an antenna with any power through it up front because of the engine electronics. 100W PEP might be OK but I had trouble before when I ran a 150W carrier on AM in a pickup truck.

My 1970 bread van was great. The body metal was so thick you could probably lift the thing with a screweye through it. In those days a CB and Firestik did the job, but 27MHz is a high frequency, the real problems are going to be 40-20M. I doubt 80 will be any use but have no idea. There's lots of local AM activity on 40M.

Here's one: consider the design of something like the Antron A-99 antenna or buddipole. I think both of those have a center feed. They do not 'need' a ground plane like a vertical antenna does. I'm not saying the earth is not important but that Antron will really reach out there. The Antron is very tall because it is just wire. the buddipole is a helical design and shorter.

There's more to it than the mounting it seems. The antenna has to be chosen and there has to be a tuner either separately and close to the antenna feedpoint, or something like a screwdriver.

Is there a program to calculate the 'apparent wavelength' of a helical coil construction like one side of the buddipole antenna, or the Firestik type design?

In the meantime, I have a mag mount for CB. But that's a cheezy "AM" solution.

[Opcom]

Here is the set of compromises. For now the AM activity is on 11M. That is perfect for the type of road travel I do.

The front grillework of the van is plastic. The 5 FT antenna gets the closer-wound high voltage section decently above the hood and the tip is about 1 FT higher than the van roof. The antenna mount is a 1/4" thick aluminum angle-type mirror mount bolted through the bumper and the coaxial cable connection is wrapped in 3M "23" self-bonding tape. That kind will last for many years keeping water out. The mount does not move as the fiberglass Wilson helical-wound antenna wiggles a little when driving. I've had front mounted antennas before so it does not bother me.

The only CB that will fit in the dash pocket is the size of a Uniden Pro510. The pocket was cut out partly using a Dremel tool. There is a metal bracket behind the pocket that supports it, or supports the "upfitter switches" factory option, which I do not have.

The coax is RG-8X and the power is a 10-gauge 'zip cord' put in wire loom and run straight from the battery with a 10A fuse at the battery. The power and RF enter the firewall though a hole drilled with a step-drill. On the E150 this easily-drilled 'knockout' is located just above the mechanical hood release cable. Having a basic van is good. If it had a bunch more options, that spot might have been in use already.

I think it looks as good as can be expected, and it works well. I am very pleased with how the in-dash part turned out. This leaves open the possibility of hamming things up later. Maybe the little Yaesu FT-817 HF rig and a wide-range antenna line matcher. There is enough room behind the bumper to put a decent matcher keeping the coax to the antenna mount very short, or if necessary due to high voltages an insulator and wire could be used. A small remote speaker is mounted near the lower part of the instrument panel where it is out of the way.

I did an experiment on the CB antenna. It is a '5/8 wave' unit, of course wound helically to be short. It can be matched up for ham bands with a tuner, but the high voltage or high current issues may remain as with any random antenna pressed into ham use. I would not expect it to be efficient. Most commercially available tuners and military tuners want a 15 FT whip at least. That is not practical on a road vehicle.

The Uniden pro510XL (shown) is 4-1/2” W x 6-3/4” D x 1-3/8” H.
The Yaesu 817 is 5.3" x 1.5" x 6.5"
The height is the main issue or question. I think it will fit, but the plastic pocket will be borderline for a mount, may be OK for an escutcheon. It took a major modification to get the CB to fit. The Yaesu would take some craftsmanship to do the same because of the way the pocket's attaching tabs are made. It might be as well when going to a ham set to just mount the detachable face on that location and hide the body elsewhere. I am not sure an Alinco DX-70 or a Icom 706 body section can be put into the dash through the existing hole.

I was able to contact another mobile 3 miles away. That is acceptable for the 11M service in AM mode.

[ke7trp]

The little 510 looks nice in the dash.  I would never have put the antenna there in the line of sight of the driver. That has to really play with the mind going down the road.

C

[Opcom]

It does not bother me at all but I am used to ignoring some things and focusing on others. It actually blends into the scene and disappears, is non-distracting. The previous Chevy van had two antennas, and the M35 had them as well. It is not in the lane vision, but off to the side. Just my take on it.

Some people would find it annoying, others not, but like anything it is gotten used to. Like the frame of a spectacles. It's there but one does not see it. Think of the work trucks with the struts there out front holding a big ladder/material rack up. Those guys just get used to it. This is alternately nice because I know exactly where the front of the bumper is.

I would have put the military antennas on the van but there is no brush guard acceptable to me for this model, only a few cheaply made bolt-together 'appearance pieces' that would fly apart if hit by common road trash.

The wrecked van in the first post had a custom made bumper. It was very costly but paid of in the end.

I would prefer a roof mount with a base loading coil, tuner, and thin flexible whip, but I'm not sold on cutting a hole in the thin roof yet. Also, a roof mount with a short whip would be even worse for efficiency if/when I want to ham-up the van and need to go to 20 or 40M, horrible.

Height is always an issue with a van. Do I put a tall ant. on it and forever avoid certain places? It is already too high for most parking garages, just by itself.