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Author Topic: Cities Go Nuts Over Sat. Dishes--Pass Ordinances--Ominous news  (Read 3260 times)
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K5UJ
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« on: April 26, 2012, 11:39:10 AM »

Page One Wall St. Journal Thursday 26 Apr. 2012

As Dishes Stack Up, Cities Start Trying to Put Them Away

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304444604577340052254206654.html

FCC is "reviewing the matter" for the satellite tv industry.  Will they act? 

May be bad news for hams...
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 12:54:37 PM »

If you are contemplating purchasing a piece of property, especially if you think you might ever want to put up any kind of outdoor antenna, this should be required reading whether or not you think the property comes with any restrictions.

http://www.thehoaprimer.org/index.htm

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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 01:26:27 PM »

Excellent advice, Don. Always better to be aware before signing. Being overly cautious might annoy some (like the selling agent), but it's a whole lot easier than trying to become an exception to the rules later.

HOAs aside, the issue has been around for decades. I recall similar carping back in the early 80s with the TVRO C-Band stuff began showing up on peoples' lawns. It's never seemed to be an issue in the rural settings beyond the HOA, but expect no end to it if you choose to live in a city setting.

IMO, ham radio ops seldom become the focus for a new rule since there are so few compared to those watching TV. Pre-existing zoning and other agreements are what snag most.
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 01:40:01 PM »

I wonder if anyone complains about this one.

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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 02:50:04 PM »

It's now an art form, satellite dish art, proving that creativity will seep into the tiniest crevice. Google it. You'll find many examples.  Here's one I like and an apartment building somewhere showing how crazy it can get.


* Snail on dish.jpg (29.47 KB, 386x400 - viewed 101 times.)

* Apartment dishes.jpg (54.53 KB, 311x400 - viewed 113 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 03:49:51 PM »

depending on the mounting situation, one could come up with a decorative radome arrangement to camouflage the ants.  might  make for a good little business.
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 08:53:47 PM »

I've been reading about apartment buildings and co-ops where nearly every window is festooned with a satellite TV dish.

Instead of combining several subscribers on one dish- easily done- Direc Tv and others are simply hanging a new dish up per subscriber. It's easier and cheaper that way.

Yes, a building with a dozen dishes hanging off of one side is indeed butt-ugly, IMO.

I saw that Chicago is planning an ordinance requiring that buildings share satellite TV dishes- or conceal them.

We dumped our satellite TV a year ago when charges reached nearly $100/month. Went back to digital off-air TV; we get some 35 channels of mostly garbage. But its free. It doesn't impair the few times a week I watch OTA TV. We get the 4 big networks and local Denver TeeVee just fine.

The TV dish antenna went to the local metal recycle, and we had to ship back the electronics before incurring hundreds in additional costs. I got 300' of RG-6 coax out of the deal, now used for my Beverage antenna.

It takes a decent UHF antenna and a mast-mounted preamp for free TeeVee. . You're done.

The old days of using a 6' or 8' dish and C-Band for free TeeVee are over. It's all scrambled now.

i have read that only 10% of viewers watch OTA TeeVee any more. 90% watch cable or satellite. But  OTA PBS is still worthwhile. At least here in Denver where several channels are available.

Then- There's the Internet..And Ham Radio.

I dunno- is free radio next?

Bill
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 09:45:57 PM »

The old days of using a 6' or 8' dish and C-Band for free TeeVee are over. It's all scrambled now.

Those were the good old days....30 years ago when everything was on C band.  I recall watching Celtics away games and the camera guys and the announcers became aware that they had an audience during commercials.

As to concealing the antennas....OK by me as I am in the business... Cool

PayTV is getting expensive. We keep reducing the channels and probably will drop it at some point.  DirectTV commercials are now mostly lawyers begging for more class action calls.

Peter
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 12:15:43 AM »

I gave up watching commercial TV about 10 years ago. Told DirecTV I was done and that was it. Kept the Netflix DVD account for awhile and finally switched to streaming for that. Folks at work tell about the current shows, and it only solidifies my belief that I did the right thing by shedding TV. I watch an occasional movie on Netflix, enough to warrant the subscription, but I don't miss the weekly network fodder at all. I remember some mighty fine weekly shows -- Star Trek, It Takes A Thief, Bonanza, Rockford Files, etc -- and Jersey Shore and Keeping Up With The Kardashians ain't even close to quality programming. I don't miss it at all.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 12:44:44 PM »

Nowadays if a ham wants any kind of decent antenna, he just about has to be in an unincorporated area. 

Even so, there is always a risk of annexation, as municipalities gobble up more and more real estate to increase their tax base. That's why, if you find a nice place out in the country, you need to put up your towers and antennas as quickly as possible.  And the towers should be as over-built and permanent as you can afford to make them. Then if later on your property gets annexed into an incorporated area run by a bunch of control freaks, your antenna system is pre-existing and they have to grandfather it in.

If you overbuild in height and add an extra pole or tower or two, it is already in place, so you have some protection against the city or county clamping on new restrictions saying you can't expand your system or add height to the towers as you might need later on.

We are only about 4 miles west of the city limits of the nearest town.  They might annex this area eventually, although there are still other operating farms adjacent to ours.  But many of the farms in this area are being sold to developers who are putting up subdivisions all over the place.  Even with the national housing blow-out, they are still building here.  Evidently the nearby army base has kept up the demand for new housing.  You don't see boarded up neighbourhoods here like you do in a lot of places.

Many of the new houses I've seen built in the past 5-10 years come in about the ugliest style I can imagine.  They have a huge 2- or 3- car garage protruding out front that dominates the profile of the entire structure, with the rest of the house almost hidden off to the side. I call them "Garage Mahals".  But they are selling like hotcakes round here. As a famous journalist once said, "No-one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." They put up hideous-looking crap like that and no-one gives it a second thought, yet having a guyed tower behind your house is prohibited because it is "unsightly".   Roll Eyes
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 01:06:58 PM »

A Venetian parabolic antenna:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/02/radio_breakthrough/  Roll Eyes
http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/14/3/033001/article   Roll Eyes
Just found on the web.
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 01:47:20 PM »

Quote



Looks like circular polarization with two polarizations phased wrt one another.

Since this nation is so sensitive to discrimination, couldn't this be considered discrimiation against one facet of the entertainment industry?

Quote
Yes, a building with a dozen dishes hanging off of one side is indeed butt-ugly, IMO.

I saw that Chicago is planning an ordinance requiring that buildings share satellite TV dishes- or conceal them.


Its the sign of an advanced civilization.

One could paint dishes, as others have suggested, to blend in with the environment, such as painting a shingle pattern on the dish.

Phil - AC0OB
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 07:32:09 PM »

One mans ugly is another mans beauty.  Once you start telling people something "ugly" is illegal, where do you stop?
Fines for dead grass?  Rusty mailboxes? Chimney Crooked or too many on the roof?  Of course if you live in a HOA ghetto, you already have this.

Frankly I find those Urban tightly packed neighborhoods ugly as sin, and many folks do. Can we outlaw them next?
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 07:53:24 PM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 02:58:56 PM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.

I'm all in. We need a name (Tronism? Vueism?), a symbol (giant cubical quad ought to do it), and a hierarch.

Lotsa tax bennies there too. Can we write off equipment use to necessitate the practicing of this new religion?
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 08:01:48 PM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.

I'm all in. We need a name (Tronism? Vueism?), a symbol (giant cubical quad ought to do it), and a hierarch.

Lotsa tax bennies there too. Can we write off equipment use to necessitate the practicing of this new religion?

yes for a legitimate religion all the tools and assets necessary 100%. Once it is organized and the conditions are met. The government has to accept it, somehow. Need a tax lawyer to answer how that all would be done but it would be no different than any other unusual belief, look at  - what is it called, that dianetics religion where you pay them money to clean out your head, it didn't even exist a few decades ago. The tax laws are certainly specific about religions so there are tests to be met. If you find evidence of God in a beam of subatomic particles or ions, especially glowing ions. you know this could bring back MV rectifiers and VR tubes. This is theoretical or for sake of argument, I do not blaspheme but a friend of mine now deceased used to occasionally burn incense in front of a pdp8 computer and then later a VAX. I never questioned his religion.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 08:26:48 PM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.

I'm all in. We need a name (Tronism? Vueism?), a symbol (giant cubical quad ought to do it), and a hierarch.

Lotsa tax bennies there too. Can we write off equipment use to necessitate the practicing of this new religion?

yes for a legitimate religion all the tools and assets necessary 100%. Once it is organized and the conditions are met. The government has to accept it, somehow. Need a tax lawyer to answer how that all would be done but it would be no different than any other unusual belief, look at  - what is it called, that dianetics religion where you pay them money to clean out your head, it didn't even exist a few decades ago. The tax laws are certainly specific about religions so there are tests to be met. If you find evidence of God in a beam of subatomic particles or ions, especially glowing ions. you know this could bring back MV rectifiers and VR tubes. This is theoretical or for sake of argument, I do not blaspheme but a friend of mine now deceased used to occasionally burn incense in front of a pdp8 computer and then later a VAX. I never questioned his religion.

Those are a nice chunk of collectable history there too. I think I'd burn a candle for it if I had one also.
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2012, 10:54:55 AM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.

I'm all in. We need a name (Tronism? Vueism?), a symbol (giant cubical quad ought to do it), and a hierarch.

Lotsa tax bennies there too. Can we write off equipment use to necessitate the practicing of this new religion?

yes for a legitimate religion all the tools and assets necessary 100%. Once it is organized and the conditions are met. The government has to accept it, somehow. Need a tax lawyer to answer how that all would be done but it would be no different than any other unusual belief, look at  - what is it called, that dianetics religion where you pay them money to clean out your head, it didn't even exist a few decades ago. The tax laws are certainly specific about religions so there are tests to be met. If you find evidence of God in a beam of subatomic particles or ions, especially glowing ions. you know this could bring back MV rectifiers and VR tubes. This is theoretical or for sake of argument, I do not blaspheme but a friend of mine now deceased used to occasionally burn incense in front of a pdp8 computer and then later a VAX. I never questioned his religion.

Those are a nice chunk of collectable history there too. I think I'd burn a candle for it if I had one also.

Would you like a small VAX? I'll throw in a stick of incense and a candle.

And for those with dishes, why not the same sort of thing. Make it a religion to stare at certain cosmic noises. The received programs are just incidental, a compromise that has to be made after all.
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2012, 11:53:06 AM »

Holy nested quote Batman!  Shocked
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2012, 01:13:35 PM »

Yes indeed. Takes me back to the 'net discussions of the 90s involving 'too many carrots'.

As Jen would say, "Less is more".   Grin
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2012, 10:32:33 PM »

start a religion of technology and machinery worship. after all, all sorts of so-called paganisms and idolatries are recognized by the government as religions. To the point of people having ugly gargoyles in their yard and the HOA having to pound sand.

I'm all in. We need a name (Tronism? Vueism?), a symbol (giant cubical quad ought to do it), and a hierarch.

Lotsa tax bennies there too. Can we write off equipment use to necessitate the practicing of this new religion?

yes for a legitimate religion all the tools and assets necessary 100%. Once it is organized and the conditions are met. The government has to accept it, somehow. Need a tax lawyer to answer how that all would be done but it would be no different than any other unusual belief, look at  - what is it called, that dianetics religion where you pay them money to clean out your head, it didn't even exist a few decades ago. The tax laws are certainly specific about religions so there are tests to be met. If you find evidence of God in a beam of subatomic particles or ions, especially glowing ions. you know this could bring back MV rectifiers and VR tubes. This is theoretical or for sake of argument, I do not blaspheme but a friend of mine now deceased used to occasionally burn incense in front of a pdp8 computer and then later a VAX. I never questioned his religion.

Those are a nice chunk of collectable history there too. I think I'd burn a candle for it if I had one also.

Would you like a small VAX? I'll throw in a stick of incense and a candle.

And for those with dishes, why not the same sort of thing. Make it a religion to stare at certain cosmic noises. The received programs are just incidental, a compromise that has to be made after all.

Holy nested quote Batman!  Shocked

Yes indeed. Takes me back to the 'net discussions of the 90s involving 'too many carrots'.

As Jen would say, "Less is more".   Grin

 Wink
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

Marconians.

Riding with a buddy to the game last night, we were passed by a car with a Pastafarian symbol. This lead to the conversation about a ham religion. We'd need a name. How about that one? The ultra orthodox wing (I think that's us AMer's or maybe it's CW ops) would be the

Draconian Marconians

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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 01:22:54 PM »

Marconians.

Riding with a buddy to the game last night, we were passed by a car with a Pastafarian symbol. This lead to the conversation about a ham religion. We'd need a name. How about that one? The ultra orthodox wing (I think that's us AMer's or maybe it's CW ops) would be the

Draconian Marconians




Perfect. Marconians it is.You'll be officially recognized in the scriptures for this very special contribution to our sect.



We got the ball rolling now. As long as nobody else complains.

wiki cut/paste; Marconia is a small community in the region of Basilicata, Italy with about 11 inhabitants. It is located in the Province of Matera and is considered a "frazione," or administrative district, of the nearby city of Pisticci. Marconia is located a few kilometers from the Gulf of Taranto on a coastal plain.
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 01:46:02 PM »

Now we need some simple bylaws. I'll throw the first one out there.

1. Any number may be fluffed at any time, and for any reason. This includes PEP/RMS transmit power (300watts, 3000watts, whos counting?), quantities (such as the example in my prev post), minimum real estate required for a given tower height (I think 75ft for every 1/4acre is fair), etc....

2.?
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 09:44:17 PM »

Now we need some simple bylaws. I'll throw the first one out there.

1. Any number may be fluffed at any time, and for any reason. This includes PEP/RMS transmit power (300watts, 3000watts, whos counting?), quantities (such as the example in my prev post), minimum real estate required for a given tower height (I think 75ft for every 1/4acre is fair), etc....

2.?

2. Speak softly and Turn up the wick.

3. Thou shalt not transmit less than two sidebands and a carrier.
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