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Author Topic: Dayton Hamvention  (Read 26878 times)
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N8IE
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2012, 01:20:29 PM »

Attendance at Dayton has fallen off dramatically the past few years.  

Ah yes, this time of year not only means the Dayton Hamvention but the official start of the Hamvention misinformation-fest.  The attendance has actually been increasing consistently every year since 2005.  Thats something I find remarkable in light of the fact that you can often get a better deal as a buyer or seller online for new or used gear.  Kinda helps restore your faith in amateur radio unless of course one is a perennial gloom-and-doomer in which case every event is an excuse to find the dark cloud obscuring a lovely silver lining.

Well I have to disagree, with the exception of a small spike, the trend is going down:
1991: 33,500
1992: 33,000
1993: 33,669
1994: 35,000
1995: 33,000
1996: No Data
1997: 28,000
1998: 28,120
1999: 28,176
2000: 28,804
2001: 26,151
2002: 24,832
2003: 22,168
2004: 19,869
2005: 20,411
2006: 20,324
2007: 19,318
2008: 17,250
2009: 18,877
2010: 19,750
2011: 22,312
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« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2012, 01:23:37 PM »

In 2011, there were 2232 flea market spaces. Of those, on opening day there were 434 spaces available. No data on how may were filled. Indoor, there were 495 booths available. On opening day, 15 were available.

In 2010, there were 2256 flea market spaces. Of those, on opening day there were 493 spaces available. No data on how may were filled. Indoor, there were 444 booths available. On opening day all were allocated.

Your statement, "1/3 the flea market spaces empty this past year, and probably 25% empty the year before" falls short.

But I bet scooter rentals are climbing each year.

I suspect, that while the flea market still draws some attention, the main attractions are the indoor vendors, the forums, and the numerous outside amateur radio activities around the area.

Number vs. bodies.
A lot of people (more so last year than in the past) buy flea market spaces to get in early and grab up the cheap deals and have a place to park for the day.
 I do not have hard numbers in front of me, but visually there were far fewer people setup and selling last year than in 2010.
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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2012, 01:55:35 PM »

Attendance at Dayton has fallen off dramatically the past few years.  

Ah yes, this time of year not only means the Dayton Hamvention but the official start of the Hamvention misinformation-fest.  The attendance has actually been increasing consistently every year since 2005.  Thats something I find remarkable in light of the fact that you can often get a better deal as a buyer or seller online for new or used gear.  Kinda helps restore your faith in amateur radio unless of course one is a perennial gloom-and-doomer in which case every event is an excuse to find the dark cloud obscuring a lovely silver lining.

Well I have to disagree, with the exception of a small spike, the trend is going down:
1991: 33,500
1992: 33,000
1993: 33,669
1994: 35,000
1995: 33,000
1996: No Data
1997: 28,000
1998: 28,120
1999: 28,176
2000: 28,804
2001: 26,151
2002: 24,832
2003: 22,168
2004: 19,869
2005: 20,411
2006: 20,324
2007: 19,318
2008: 17,250
2009: 18,877
2010: 19,750
2011: 22,312


2008: 17,250
2009: 18,877
2010: 19,750
2011: 22,312

You might have been using different math books in your school than we did in mine.  A 3-year, 5000-person increase in headcount is pretty impressive to me considering an aging population, rising gas prices and stiff competition for sales from online outlets.

Regardless, I'm humored every year around this time when the regular group of gloom-and-doomers try and work every negative angle they can on Hamvention, whether they are true or not.   The rest of us go there and have a good time while the gloom-and-doomers seem to be sour on everything - it cant be much fun going through life like that.

There are alot of interesting things to see inside and outside of the building like the 2KW backpack guy. (i think he's operating sideband so if you are easily upset please dont watch   Grin )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxp_Nsa54_Q


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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2012, 02:04:04 PM »

Dam, the problem is me! Between kids family and all that stuff I missed 89 to 96 and started going again in 97 and the numbers have been going down ever since. Looks like once I started back everything started going downhill, maybe should have used deodorant or wore clean underwear or something. No explanation for 2011 although I did wear clean socks last year.
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2012, 02:18:26 PM »

Attendance in 2008 was less than half what it was in 1994.  I see a definite downward trend, not necessarily a bad thing for those of us interested in the flea market, older gear, parts, etc.  Some of the best flea markets have been in "down" years.

Part of the explanation for 2008 undoubtedly was the economy.  That was right after the great Wall Street ripoff crash, which was exacerbated by TV-news sensationalism.  Many jobs were lost, houses foreclosed on, and even those with seemingly secure jobs were afraid of layoffs or employers going bankrupt, so people were closely watching their pennies.  After the initial shock, people gradually began to feel more confident to spend money on non-essentials, now that they had weathered the storm and managed to hold onto their house and job.
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2012, 02:55:20 PM »

Conversely, you might find plenty of guys wanting to sell their packratted treasures to pay the mortgage.
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2012, 07:19:13 AM »

Dam, the problem is me! Between kids family and all that stuff I missed 89 to 96 and started going again in 97 and the numbers have been going down ever since. Looks like once I started back everything started going downhill, maybe should have used deodorant or wore clean underwear or something. No explanation for 2011 although I did wear clean socks last year.

Now we know who did it!  Grin
But don't go there clean, you want to blend in like Jane Goodall!

I've been going to Hamvention (I live like 20 minutes from there  Tongue ) since the late 70's, long before I got my license. I look forward to it every year, just don't like the facilities.

This year I'll wear my waders just in case the poo fountains erupt again.  Lips sealed
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2012, 07:24:30 AM »

Conversely, you might find plenty of guys wanting to sell their packratted treasures to pay the mortgage.

I hope someone drags their pristine Yaesu FV-401 there.  Cheesy
 
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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 01:43:29 PM »

Oh no, more bad news for the gloom-and-doomers. 

The weather at Hamvention this year was beautiful and the attendance was up yet again.

I've heard "25,000" and 24,483 quoted so if you use the latter, the attendance since 2008 looks like:

2008: 17,250
2009: 18,877
2010: 19,750
2011: 22,312
2012: 24,483

Maybe the gloom-and-doomers can convince themselves that most of the attendees aren't "real" hams or that things were much better back in the good old days and that will provide them with some measure of consolation.    Wink




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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 02:10:47 PM »

Good for you Sammy old boy, always good to see a happy Fanboy!  Grin

I had a good time this year, saw the usual goofy people with towers on their pith helmets, the girl with a bee hive hairdo that had a 2M antenna stuck in the middle, and the great unwashed masses!

Did notice a younger crowd this year, that's a plus! Also this was the year of the boat anchor, tons of good old metal. Early Friday I could have got a deal from an estate sale, they had a genuine Hallicrafters SX-99 for $1000.00!  Shocked

But I did make a few good deals, got a filthy WRL globe Scout that looks like it spent the past 30 years in a barn, cleaned up great and works like a champ. Also got a Hammarlund HQ-110 that matches it pretty well. Picked up a Yaesu uni-directional mic to complete my FT-401B station, and to top it all off I picked up a fairly clean Vibroplex Lighting Bug from 1938! Just have to learn how to use it now.  Grin

I had a good time, bitched about the cost of the crappy food, about broke my foot a few times on the broken asphalt, and tried to not let that Hamvention Funk kill my sinuses.

Next year think I'll setup a table and give away samples of deodorant, and baby wipes. Tongue

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« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 02:30:44 PM »

Good for you Sammy old boy, always good to see a happy Fanboy!  Grin


Well, you might be confused.

Urban dictionary defines "fanboy" as

"An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc."


Thats not me.  I just enjoy the event and continue to marvel at the old farts who seem to be unhappy that others are having a good time.
 

Urban dictionary further defines "fanboy" as:

"Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions."

Now thats a spot-on definition of some of the old f***s that get on this board, qrz and elsewhere and claim that "the attendance was way down again this year" and when you point out to them that the attendance was up, again,  they take a left turn into some psycho-babble argument about how its not like it used to be in the good old days, or the hams in attendance aren't real hams like them, blah blah, blah.   You know, the usual bulletin board BS where they have no facts to back anything and where people love to hear bad news whether its true or not.
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« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 02:56:45 PM »

Urban Dictionary is one source for information I guess.  Roll Eyes

I prefer:
(fandom slang) Someone (normally male) who is utterly devoted to a single subject or hobby, often to the point where it is considered an obsession.

"Apple fanboys have always devoted equal parts of their mind to genuine reasons to praise their chosen corporation, and to blindly ignoring its faults." — Tim Barribeau, The Sydney Morning Herald, December 10 2008.

It's just an observation Sammy, you come across as hostile to anyone who has a negative opinion of Hamvention, that is the core of "Fanboy" thinking. No offense but not everyone is going to share your opinion. If calling those who don't "old farts" makes you feel better, then good for you!  Wink

Some of us have been going to Dayton for decades and have seen the changes first hand, not just raw data published by DARA. Fact remains the Dayton Hamvention is in a state of decline, this really has more to do with the promoters than anything else, but that's another story.

Anyway, enough of all this, did you go? Get anything good?

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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 03:19:01 PM »

It's just an observation Sammy, you come across as hostile to anyone who has a negative opinion of Hamvention.

Nope, you might still be confused.   Cheesy  You may want to reread my posts on the subject of people claiming that up is actually down since its of apparent interest to you.

I'll stick with the urban dictionary snippet: "Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile"
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 03:24:50 PM »

Well ok, that's fine.  Wink

Now, did you go and if so did you get anything?
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« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 03:56:20 PM »

Wow the back pack QRO guy is still alive. I figured he would have cooked himself by now.
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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 04:41:38 PM »

From my observation, attendance has been down for the past several years.  You used to not see very many empty flea market spaces, but lately, there have been plenty of them. But that's not necessarily doom and gloom; the quality of stuff in the flea market has improved with the decreased attendance.  Less artsy-crafty garbage and obsolete computer junk, and more real radio stuff.  Plus, the lower attendance allows one to circulate more comfortably through the flea market and indoor displays without having to squeeze one's way through a mass of humanity packed like sardines (and not everyone practising the best of hygiene).

Something that is obvious, though, is the continuing deterioration of HARA Arena. I suspect the hamfest (plus weak economy) have made the difference between the continued existence of the arena, and the owners selling the property for re-development, as has already happened to the acreage immediately surrounding the arena, where they used to allow parking for the hamfest. Someone told me last year that the hamfest is the only event all year long that occupies every square foot of the entire arena. Every year you hear murmuring that this will be the last year the hamfest is held at HARA, but let's hope they keep the arena for years to come; I have seen too many hamfests that fizzled, from the moment they changed venue, even when the new location was nicer than the old one.
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« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 05:03:38 PM »

Quote
Also Seabrook NH/Deerfield NH/Nearfest, but that one was not a long-established-for-decades-at-one-spot event, like Dayton.

Deerfield and Nearfest is the same location. The intervening years were due to politics and poor self policing and the intermediate locations were never the same popularity.

Nearfest continues to grow whenever the weather cooperates. Late April/first May weeekend and mid October are not ideal dates in northern New England.

Even on the older Dayton dates when snow happened didnt stop the crowd but a mini tornado got a few staining their undies.
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 05:28:58 PM »

" Even on the older Dayton dates when snow happened didnt stop the crowd but a mini tornado got a few staining their undies"

Well, as our Ham population ages, we'll see more of this.


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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2012, 05:30:43 PM »

From my observation, attendance has been down for the past several years.  You used to not see very many empty flea market spaces, but lately, there have been plenty of them. But that's not necessarily doom and gloom; the quality of stuff in the flea market has improved with the decreased attendance.  Less artsy-crafty garbage and obsolete computer junk, and more real radio stuff.  Plus, the lower attendance allows one to circulate more comfortably through the flea market and indoor displays without having to squeeze one's way through a mass of humanity packed like sardines (and not everyone practising the best of hygiene).

Something that is obvious, though, is the continuing deterioration of HARA Arena. I suspect the hamfest (plus weak economy) have made the difference between the continued existence of the arena, and the owners selling the property for re-development, as has already happened to the acreage immediately surrounding the arena, where they used to allow parking for the hamfest. Someone told me last year that the hamfest is the only event all year long that occupies every square foot of the entire arena. Every year you hear murmuring that this will be the last year the hamfest is held at HARA, but let's hope they keep the arena for years to come; I have seen too many hamfests that fizzled, from the moment they changed venue, even when the new location was nicer than the old one.

As Sam has pointed out the attendance (with 2012 numbers) has slowly climbed back up to where it was in the early 2000's. As far as empty flea market spaces, read my earlier post. Remember, attendance and flea market activity are two different things. Not everyone who attends cares about the flea market. Also, over the last several years, they eliminated a number of flea market spaces to add additional aisles. Additional aisles create additional corner spaces which sell for $100 each versus non-corner spots which sell for $70. Computer-type vendors which use to be all over the flea market area have mostly vanished freeing up spaces. Couple that with the advantages of online buying and selling would lead to further additional spaces. The attraction of dragging your "stuff" hundreds of miles to sell, to set up, to sit/stand around for two days in the hot sun, or the rain, or the wind, or the combination of all three, pay for fuel, pay for lodging, pay entrance fees, are probably becoming less attractive for a lot of people. If you were raised under the flea market umbrella of the "good old days", those days are gone. The business model, even for flea markets, has changed.

It has already been announced that Hamvention 2013 will be at the HARA arena.
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 09:33:02 PM »

A lot of people will sit around and complain about the empty spaces, how much they charge per space and what a dump Hara is but once again I had a good year there. Came back with something I considered a bargain, sold lots of stuff with out having to deal with shipping and on line crap, and returned from the Hamvention with more money then I brought with me. You all can do what ever you want be as for me I will be paying the $140 for two more spaces next year and look forward to going again just like I have for the last fifteen. Said it before and will say it again, if you cant find what your looking for or have fun at Dayton you should consider a new hobby like stamp collecting. If I said something about like collecting and rebuilding mussel cars then people would bitch about how the MOPAR Nationals at Carlisle had empty spaces and EBay drove all the prices up and with so many “hot” new cars out there who wants to deal with the sixties and seventies junk.
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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2012, 10:47:43 PM »

A lot of people will sit around and complain about the empty spaces, how much they charge per space and what a dump Hara is but once again I had a good year there. Came back with something I considered a bargain, sold lots of stuff with out having to deal with shipping and on line crap, and returned from the Hamvention with more money then I brought with me. You all can do what ever you want be as for me I will be paying the $140 for two more spaces next year and look forward to going again just like I have for the last fifteen. Said it before and will say it again, if you cant find what your looking for or have fun at Dayton you should consider a new hobby like stamp collecting. If I said something about like collecting and rebuilding mussel cars then people would bitch about how the MOPAR Nationals at Carlisle had empty spaces and EBay drove all the prices up and with so many “hot” new cars out there who wants to deal with the sixties and seventies junk.

mussel car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42669017@N07/6311678844/

Quote
Said it before and will say it again, if you cant find what your looking for or have fun at Dayton you should consider a new hobby like stamp collecting.

I have fun at Dayton but generally it's not really between 8 AM and 6 PM. That's work time. The real fun and laughs happen after I close up for the day. As far as finding things I was looking for, the majority of my major discoveries over the years always happened at small local hamfests. And, "real" stamp collecting is not as passive as you might think.
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« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2012, 12:48:36 AM »

Couple that with the advantages of online buying and selling would lead to further additional spaces. The attraction of dragging your "stuff" hundreds of miles to sell, to set up, to sit/stand around for two days in the hot sun, or the rain, or the wind, or the combination of all three, pay for fuel, pay for lodging, pay entrance fees, are probably becoming less attractive for a lot of people. If you were raised under the flea market umbrella of the "good old days", those days are gone.

On-line buying is not all milk and honey, either. You have the hassle of boxing the stuff up for shipping, the cost of the  container and packing material, plus the very real possibility that the shipping agency will succeed in destroying the merchandise in transit no matter how well it is packed. And there is the cost of shipping.  It used to be just  a small nuisance fee tacked onto the price of the item that you maybe grumbled about but tolerated, kind of like sales tax, but lately I have been paying as much or more for shipping costs as I paid for the item or that the item was worth, and the parcel delivery services still don't give a rat's arse about how much damage  they do to the merchandise as they handle it. I have loads of stuff I could sell on ePay or some of the ham radio swap lists, but to make it worthwhile for the time and effort I would have to put in to box and ship it, I would have to charge enough that I would inevitably be called a charlatan and ripoff artist, kinda like that place out in Nebraska.

The problem with trying to sell stuff at the flea market is that I would be tethered to the vendor's space much of the time, while I would rather be out exploring what other people have for sale.  So stuff just accumulates in the shack, because I never throw anything away that might still be useful in some way.  I guess this shows that it takes all kinds to make the world; if everyone shared my take, there would be no flea market because no-one would be selling anything.

To me, the hamfest IS the flea market.  I could hardly care less about 95% of the stuff inside.  I can see all I want of that by perusing the ads that take up most of the pages of QST and CQ.  I usually make a few short excursions through the indoor display areas; this year I spent over an hour at the Luso Tower display chatting with some friends.  But I recall one year, 3 or 4 years ago, when I never even once sat foot inside the arena during the whole 3 days.

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« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2012, 09:35:56 PM »

I agree about the flea market being the fest. That's where you find the best stuff, and the weirdest stuff.
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2012, 06:15:52 PM »

as has been pointed out, the uptick in attendance is probably all hams buying and looking at consumer products indoors.
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