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Author Topic: Ugly Balun (optimum reactance)  (Read 9757 times)
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aa5wg
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« on: December 15, 2011, 08:31:33 PM »

Hi to all: UPDATED:

I have read for the "Ugly Balun" (coax wrapped around a pvc form) a mimimum of 500 ohms reactance, at the design frequency, is needed to do its job. What would be a realistic optimum reactance, at design frequency, for this balun and why?

Chuck
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 09:11:40 PM »

The optimum would be infinity.  Cheesy

 Most baluns have less than 3k Ohms reactance. Anything over 1k is probably good enough for most applications. You'll need a ton of coax to get this on the low bands.
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aa5wg
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 09:37:54 PM »

Good point Steve.  I made an update.
Chuck
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 09:51:34 PM »

You'll need a ton of coax to get this on the low bands.

At the expense of an additional tuning control to adjust, couldn't you use a coil of coax with the number of turns and dimensions that would be comparable to a tank coil at that frequency, and parallel tune it with a variable capacitor, so that it would block the common mode circuit without the incredibly large number of turns required to make it act like an efficient rf choke?
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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aa5wg
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2011, 10:27:54 PM »

Don, good question.  Which side of the coax would be hot, traditionally the inner conductor or shield?  If using coax cable as a choke (or coil) would it be beneficial to cut the coax in halve and splice them back together with the inner wire now connected the shield?  This would make the coax cable a more "balanced" cable?

I say this because I remember many years ago I measured separately the inductance of the inner conductor and shield.  The inductance was different between the two.  If this splicing approach is used do you think the impedance bump would be to large?

And, Don, have you tried coax as a faraday shielded link pickup coil in your Harris rig?

Roy Lewallen in his paper, "Baluns: What they do and how they do it" made a statement about testing a current balun made form beads placed over coax.

He said connect a 54 ohm resister to one side of the coax output to ground and the remaining output side of cable to a 27 ohm resister to ground.  The measured voltage across the 54 ohm resister should be twice the value as the 27 ohm resister if the balun is working.

I wonder if the same test  could be conducted on the Ugly balun?
I still wonder what would be a realistic optimum impedance/reactance value for the ugly balun for the band in use?

Chuck
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2011, 10:35:31 PM »

Lots of info here, including some good measurements on various baluns.

* HFbaltransys.pdf (2873.05 KB - downloaded 8258 times.)
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K5UJ
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 11:18:54 PM »

Back around 2003 and 2004 when I didn't know any better I made this feedline choke coil for use on 160 m. and put it out at the old inverted L feedpoint.  100 feet of 213 wound on a small garbage can.  I somehow calculated it had sufficient XL on 160 and used it until I realized I had so many radials I didn't really need it.   I pulled it and never noticed any problem RF on the exterior of the line.  I tried to make its diameter close to its length with 100 feet of material.   Obviously, this is not something that's an option with a high dipole, except if the feedpoint is held by a tower. 


* 160mfeedlinechoke.jpg (29.06 KB, 400x267 - viewed 901 times.)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2011, 11:26:22 PM »

Don, good question.  Which side of the coax would be hot, traditionally the inner conductor or shield?  If using coax cable as a choke (or coil) would it be beneficial to cut the coax in halve and splice them back together with the inner wire now connected the shield?  This would make the coax cable a more "balanced" cable?

The common mode current flows on the outer surface of the shield.  You can think of coax as a three-conductor line.  You have the inner conductor, the inner surface of the shield and the outer surface of the shield, all three acting as independent conductors.  The currents flowing on the inner conductor and inner surface of the shield should be equal in magnitude and opposite in polarity.  Ideally there should be zero current on the outer surface of the shield.  If there is current on the outer surface, that's the common mode current you want to get rid of.  The 1:1 current balun works by inserting a high reactance in series with the outer surface of the shield, without affecting the inner surface of the shield or the inner conductor. This can be accomplished either by threading the coax through a series of ferrite rings (as in the W2DU balun), or by coiling a bunch of coax so that the outside surface of the shield serves as an untuned rf choke or as the inductive reactance of a tuned  circuit.

At the input of the balun, the inner conductor would be "hot" and the shield grounded.  At the output, the inner conductor and the shield would be floating (but carrying equal currents of opposite polarity) with respect to ground.

Quote
I say this because I remember many years ago I measured separately the inductance of the inner conductor and shield.  The inductance was different between the two.

The inner conductor and inside surface of the shield are what you should be concerned with. Theoretically, the inductance of the outer surface of the shield is irrelevant. Actually, it should be high enough to present a high reactance at the operating frequency (to choke off any common mode current), either by brute-force inductance, or else as the L in a parallel tuned L-C circuit.

Quote
And, Don, have you tried coax as a faraday shielded link pickup coil in your Harris rig?

The Harris (Gates) rig uses an unbalanced pi-L network, not  link coupling.  My 8005 rig uses a faraday shielded swinging link.  I built it to operate in an apartment building when I lived in Cambridge in the days when harmonic TVI was a big problem. I had the rig shielded well enough that I could watch channel 11 on the TV using the open wire line to the 80m end-fed zepp as the TV antenna, with a JS clip lead loosely coupled to the OWL, while I was transmitting on 75, and seeing little or no trace of TVI in the picture.

Review the QST article on the balanced L-network.  He gives some ideas about the requirements of the balun.
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 01:00:43 AM »


Here's some more good info on this subject:
 http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/chokes/
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73 Mike 
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aa5wg
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 08:52:06 AM »

Don, Steve, Mike, k5UJ and all:
I am going to go over you material and see what I come up with.  I want to use one of my link tank coils with a an ugly balun to form a balanced L tuner.  I read terms like, the recommended "impedance", "reactance" and I think "resistance" to justify claims of lengths of coax to wind.  The problem is that the lengths of these recommendations varied all over the place from 18 to 50 plus feet.  

How do I interpret the frequency graph on the far left column from the below table?
Chuck




Ed Gilbert eyg@hpnjlc.njd.hp.com
Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:40:24 -0400

Hi Pete,

My experience is that PVC works fine as a form for high Q RF coils.
I've measured Qs of up to 450 on loading coils wound on PVC pipe.

I've appended a paper I wrote on measurements of coaxial baluns wound on
PVC forms.

73,

Ed Gilbert, WA2SRQ
eyg@hpnjlc.njd.hp.com


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Having access to a Hewlett-Packard 4193A vector impedance meter at
work, I have made measurements on a number of baluns, coaxial and
otherwise.  For my beams I was particularly interested how many turns
and on what diameter are optimum for air core coaxial baluns, and what
the effect of bunching the turns was (formless).  Using the remote
programming capability of the HP4193A along with an instrument
controller, I measured the magnitude and phase of each balun's winding
impedance at 1 MHz intervals from 1 to 35 MHz.  For comparison, I also
made measurements on a commercial balun which consists of a number of
ferrite beads slipped over a short length of coax.  I've appended some
of these measurements so you can draw your own conclusions.  

PVC pipe was used for coil forms.  The 4-1/4 inch diameter baluns were
wound on thin-walled PVC labeled "4 inch sewer pipe".  This material
makes an excellent balun form.  It's very light weight and easy to
work with, and I obtained a 10 foot length at the local Home Depot for
about 3 dollars.  The 6-5/8 inch diameter forms are 6 inch schedule 40
PVC pipe which is much thicker, heavier, and more expensive.

Each test choke was close-wound on a form as a single-layer solenoid
using RG-213 and taped to hold the turns in place.  The lengths of
cable were cut so there was about 2 inches excess at each end.  This
allowed just enough wire at the ends for connections to the HP4193A's
probe tip.  After data was collected for each single-layer
configuration, the PVC form was removed, the turns were bunched
together and taped formless, and another set of measurements was
taken.  I have only included the "bunched" measurements in the table
for one of the baluns, but the trend was the same in each case.  When
compared to the single-layer version of the same diameter and number
of turns, the bunched baluns show a large downward shift in parallel
self-resonance frequency and poor choking reactance at the higher
frequencies.  


Interpreting the Measurements
-----------------------------
All the baluns start out looking inductive at low frequencies, as
indicated by the positive phase angles.  As the frequency is
increased, a point is reached where the capacitance between the
windings forms a parallel resonance with the coil's inductance.  Above
this frequency, the winding reactance is reduced by this capacitance.
The interwinding capacitance increases with the number of turns and
the diameter of the turns, so "more is not always better".  

The effects of a large increase in interwinding capacitance is evident
in the measurements on the balun with the bunched turns.  This is
probably a result of the first and last turns of the coil being much
closer together than the single-layer coil.

An important requirement of these baluns is that the magnitude of the
winding reactance be much greater than the load impedance.  In the
case of a 50 ohm balanced antenna, the balun's winding impedance is
effectively shunted across one half the 50 ohm load impedance, or 25
ohms.  A reasonable critera for the balun's winding impedance for
negligible common mode current in the shield is that it be at least 20
times this, or 500 ohms.  The measurements show, for example, that 6
turns 4-1/4 inches in diameter meet this criteria from 14 to 35 MHz.  

The measurement data also reveals the power loss these baluns will
exhibit.  Each of the measurement points can be transformed from the
polar format of the table to a parallel equivalent real and reactive
shunt impedance.  The power dissipated in the balun is then the square
of the voltage across it divided by the real parallel equivalent shunt
impedance.  While this calculation can be made for each measurement
point, an approximate number can be taken directly from the tables at
the parallel resonance points.  At 0 degrees phase angle the magnitude
numbers are pure resistive.  I didn't record the exact resonance
points, but it can be seen from the tables that the four single-layer
baluns are all above 15K ohms, while the ferrite bead balun read about
1.4K.  These baluns see half the load voltage, so at 1500 watts to a
50 ohm load, the power dissipated in the coaxial baluns will be less
than 1.3 watts, and the ferrite bead balun will dissipate about 13.4
watts (neglecting possible core saturation and other non-linear
effects).  These losses are certainly negligible.  At 200 ohms load
impedance, the losses are under 5 watts for the coaxial baluns and
53.6 watts for the ferrite beads.  


Conclusions
-----------
- A 1:1 coaxial balun with excellent choking reactance for 10 through
20 meters can be made by winding 6 turns of RG-213 on inexpensive 4
inch PVC sewer pipe.  

- For 40 or 30 meters, use 12 turns of RG-213 on 4 inch PVC sewer
pipe.

- Don't bunch the turns together.  Wind them as a single layer on a
form.  Bunching the turns kills the choking effect at higher
frequencies.

- Don't use too many turns.  For example, the HyGain manuals for my 10
and 15 meter yagis both recommend 12 turns 6 inches in diameter.  At
the very least this is about 3 times as much coax as is needed, and
these dimensions actually give less than the desired choking impedance
on 10 and 15 meters.  


Measurements
------------
Magnitude in ohms, phase angle in degrees, as a function of frequency
in Hz, for various baluns.

            6 Turns    12 Turns     4 Turns     8 Turns     8 Turns    Ferrite
           4-1/4 in    4-1/4 in    6-5/8 in    6-5/8 in    6-5/8 in     beads
          sngl layer  sngl layer  sngl layer  sngl layer    bunched    (Aztec)
          ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------
Frequency  Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase
1.00E+06    26  88.1    65  89.2    26  88.3    74  89.2    94  89.3   416  78.1
2.00E+06    51  88.7   131  89.3    52  88.8   150  89.3   202  89.2   795  56.1
3.00E+06    77  88.9   200  89.4    79  89.1   232  89.3   355  88.9  1046  39.8
4.00E+06   103  89.1   273  89.5   106  89.3   324  89.4   620  88.3  1217  26.6
5.00E+06   131  89.1   356  89.4   136  89.2   436  89.3  1300  86.2  1334  14.7
6.00E+06   160  89.3   451  89.5   167  89.3   576  89.1  8530  59.9  1387   3.6
7.00E+06   190  89.4   561  89.5   201  89.4   759  89.1  2120 -81.9  1404  -5.9
8.00E+06   222  89.4   696  89.6   239  89.4  1033  88.8  1019 -85.7  1369 -15.4
9.00E+06   258  89.4   869  89.5   283  89.4  1514  87.3   681 -86.5  1295 -23.7
1.00E+07   298  89.3  1103  89.3   333  89.2  2300  83.1   518 -86.9  1210 -29.8
1.10E+07   340  89.3  1440  89.1   393  89.2  4700  73.1   418 -87.1  1123 -35.2
1.20E+07   390  89.3  1983  88.7   467  88.9 15840  -5.2   350 -87.2  1043 -39.9
1.30E+07   447  89.2  3010  87.7   556  88.3  4470 -62.6   300 -86.9   954 -42.7
1.40E+07   514  89.3  5850  85.6   675  88.3  2830 -71.6   262 -86.9   901 -45.2
1.50E+07   594  88.9 42000  44.0   834  87.5  1910 -79.9   231 -87.0   847 -48.1
1.60E+07   694  88.8  7210 -81.5  1098  86.9  1375 -84.1   203 -87.2   778 -51.8
1.70E+07   830  88.1  3250 -82.0  1651  81.8   991 -82.4   180 -86.9   684 -54.4
1.80E+07   955  86.0  2720 -76.1  1796  70.3   986 -67.2   164 -84.9   623 -45.9
1.90E+07  1203  85.4  1860 -80.1  3260  44.6   742 -71.0   145 -85.1   568 -51.2
2.00E+07  1419  85.2  1738 -83.8  3710  59.0  1123 -67.7   138 -84.5   654 -34.0
2.10E+07  1955  85.7  1368 -87.2 12940 -31.3   859 -84.3   122 -86.1   696 -49.9
2.20E+07  3010  83.9  1133 -87.8  3620 -77.5   708 -86.1   107 -85.9   631 -54.8
2.30E+07  6380  76.8   955 -88.0  2050 -83.0   613 -86.9    94 -85.5   584 -57.4
2.40E+07 15980 -29.6   807 -86.3  1440 -84.6   535 -86.3    82 -85.0   536 -58.8
2.50E+07  5230 -56.7   754 -82.2  1099 -84.1   466 -84.1    70 -84.3   485 -59.2
2.60E+07  3210 -78.9   682 -86.4   967 -83.4   467 -81.6    60 -82.7   481 -56.2
2.70E+07  2000 -84.4   578 -87.3   809 -86.5   419 -85.5    49 -81.7   463 -60.5
2.80E+07  1426 -85.6   483 -86.5   685 -87.1   364 -86.2    38 -79.6   425 -62.5
2.90E+07  1074 -85.1   383 -84.1   590 -87.3   308 -85.6    28 -75.2   387 -63.8
3.00E+07   840 -83.2   287 -75.0   508 -87.0   244 -82.1    18 -66.3   346 -64.4
3.10E+07   661 -81.7   188 -52.3   442 -85.7   174 -69.9     9 -34.3   305 -64.3
3.20E+07   484 -78.2   258  20.4   385 -83.6   155 -18.0    11  37.2   263 -63.2
3.30E+07   335 -41.4  1162 -13.5   326 -78.2   569  -0.3    21  63.6   212 -58.0
3.40E+07   607 -32.2   839 -45.9   316 -63.4   716 -57.6    32  71.4   183 -40.5
3.50E+07   705 -58.2   564 -56.3   379 -69.5   513 -72.5    46  76.0   235 -29.6

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aa5wg
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 12:19:29 PM »

How should I interpret the far left frequency column in the below table?  Does the far left frequency column represent 1 through 35 MHz?
Chuck


Measurements
------------
Magnitude in ohms, phase angle in degrees, as a function of frequency
in Hz, for various baluns.

            6 Turns    12 Turns     4 Turns     8 Turns     8 Turns    Ferrite
           4-1/4 in    4-1/4 in    6-5/8 in    6-5/8 in    6-5/8 in     beads
          sngl layer  sngl layer  sngl layer  sngl layer    bunched    (Aztec)
          ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------  ----------
Frequency  Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase   Mag Phase
1.00E+06    26  88.1    65  89.2    26  88.3    74  89.2    94  89.3   416  78.1
2.00E+06    51  88.7   131  89.3    52  88.8   150  89.3   202  89.2   795  56.1
3.00E+06    77  88.9   200  89.4    79  89.1   232  89.3   355  88.9  1046  39.8
4.00E+06   103  89.1   273  89.5   106  89.3   324  89.4   620  88.3  1217  26.6
5.00E+06   131  89.1   356  89.4   136  89.2   436  89.3  1300  86.2  1334  14.7
6.00E+06   160  89.3   451  89.5   167  89.3   576  89.1  8530  59.9  1387   3.6
7.00E+06   190  89.4   561  89.5   201  89.4   759  89.1  2120 -81.9  1404  -5.9
8.00E+06   222  89.4   696  89.6   239  89.4  1033  88.8  1019 -85.7  1369 -15.4
9.00E+06   258  89.4   869  89.5   283  89.4  1514  87.3   681 -86.5  1295 -23.7
1.00E+07   298  89.3  1103  89.3   333  89.2  2300  83.1   518 -86.9  1210 -29.8
1.10E+07   340  89.3  1440  89.1   393  89.2  4700  73.1   418 -87.1  1123 -35.2
1.20E+07   390  89.3  1983  88.7   467  88.9 15840  -5.2   350 -87.2  1043 -39.9
1.30E+07   447  89.2  3010  87.7   556  88.3  4470 -62.6   300 -86.9   954 -42.7
1.40E+07   514  89.3  5850  85.6   675  88.3  2830 -71.6   262 -86.9   901 -45.2
1.50E+07   594  88.9 42000  44.0   834  87.5  1910 -79.9   231 -87.0   847 -48.1
1.60E+07   694  88.8  7210 -81.5  1098  86.9  1375 -84.1   203 -87.2   778 -51.8
1.70E+07   830  88.1  3250 -82.0  1651  81.8   991 -82.4   180 -86.9   684 -54.4
1.80E+07   955  86.0  2720 -76.1  1796  70.3   986 -67.2   164 -84.9   623 -45.9
1.90E+07  1203  85.4  1860 -80.1  3260  44.6   742 -71.0   145 -85.1   568 -51.2
2.00E+07  1419  85.2  1738 -83.8  3710  59.0  1123 -67.7   138 -84.5   654 -34.0
2.10E+07  1955  85.7  1368 -87.2 12940 -31.3   859 -84.3   122 -86.1   696 -49.9
2.20E+07  3010  83.9  1133 -87.8  3620 -77.5   708 -86.1   107 -85.9   631 -54.8
2.30E+07  6380  76.8   955 -88.0  2050 -83.0   613 -86.9    94 -85.5   584 -57.4
2.40E+07 15980 -29.6   807 -86.3  1440 -84.6   535 -86.3    82 -85.0   536 -58.8
2.50E+07  5230 -56.7   754 -82.2  1099 -84.1   466 -84.1    70 -84.3   485 -59.2
2.60E+07  3210 -78.9   682 -86.4   967 -83.4   467 -81.6    60 -82.7   481 -56.2
2.70E+07  2000 -84.4   578 -87.3   809 -86.5   419 -85.5    49 -81.7   463 -60.5
2.80E+07  1426 -85.6   483 -86.5   685 -87.1   364 -86.2    38 -79.6   425 -62.5
2.90E+07  1074 -85.1   383 -84.1   590 -87.3   308 -85.6    28 -75.2   387 -63.8
3.00E+07   840 -83.2   287 -75.0   508 -87.0   244 -82.1    18 -66.3   346 -64.4
3.10E+07   661 -81.7   188 -52.3   442 -85.7   174 -69.9     9 -34.3   305 -64.3
3.20E+07   484 -78.2   258  20.4   385 -83.6   155 -18.0    11  37.2   263 -63.2
3.30E+07   335 -41.4  1162 -13.5   326 -78.2   569  -0.3    21  63.6   212 -58.0
3.40E+07   607 -32.2   839 -45.9   316 -63.4   716 -57.6    32  71.4   183 -40.5
3.50E+07   705 -58.2   564 -56.3   379 -69.5   513 -72.5    46  76.0   235 -29.6
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2011, 01:01:45 PM »

Yes, 1-35 MHz.
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aa5wg
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2011, 01:56:23 PM »

Steve:
Thank you.
Chuck
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AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands
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