you move sixteen tons and what do you get? tube kits?

[Opcom]

Today was the first day of moving out of the Fort Worth storage on short notice. This is a 30x50 space if which I have 1/3. I was planning on moving my stuff, which is a set of full shelves 45FT long, 2FT deep, and 14FT tall, 1260 cubes. Got most of that onto a couple of trailers today and into a barn in Gainesville TX. Whew.. But one of the other guys, who had manuals and vacuum tubes, wants to be rid of the vacuum tubes. That volume is maybe 400 cu. ft of new tubes, and about 220 cu. ft of tested good used ones. In total maybe 5000-7000 tubes.

Thing is, many of the tubes are going to be the ones people have 'shunned', not 6V or 12V, and only a very few 50-200W TX tubes. So, what to do? I will never use the "TV set tubes of strange voltages". They will just be stored, only to have value after the apocalypse.

I got to determine how many 'good' types are there, and whether it is worth the sum being asked. Among the tubes are many 4-digit military or industrial types, but probably only a few of the kinds sought by audiophools. I'm going to keep what I need for spares.



Of the odd voltage tubes, there are some obvious ones that would be good for projects as long as the builder could lay hands on a few spares each. Today we do not have to use filament transformers unless we want to. A dc-dc switching supply cost less and is always regulated, and other things like wall warts and computer brick supplies are of use to beginners.

What about the idea of offering simple 1-2 tube 'beginner' kits made up with these tubes, including sockets, of which there are hundreds available, and basic instructions? I was thinking about reaching first time builders, with extremely simple things like a 1-tube audio amp or similar almost foolproof little things. Each kit would be bare-bones but include a couple spare tubes, socket, and a list of where to get the other parts, and all the parts would be common types from the breadboard/chassis to the power transf. The idea is the builder could work according to his skills, budget, and choices, whether he wants a JS arrangement on a 2x4 or a nice chassis with a real aluminum knob.

The idea is 100% -not- to offer a complete or state of the art hi-fi amp or super low noise RF preamp, but just to offer something very cheap to get someone started in case they want to try a tube project but not plop down $200 or more on something they are not sure they could even do.

I was thinking about $20-25 including lower 48 shipping as a price. No two would necessarily be alike (unless requested), depending on what tubes were on hand. Topics would be very limited, just an audio amp that could drive a small speaker or headphones (depending on the user's option at build time) and a broadband RF preamp with a few dB gain to use with a beginner's typical shortwave radio. The documentation is easy, one size fits all pretty much. Instructional stuff.

Venue might be ebay or a website. Is this a crazy idea?

[K5WLF]

Neat idea, Patrick. I like it. There are some young hams at the university I work at who I believe would enjoy something like that.

ldb

[k4kyv]

Check out those 4-digit types, particularly receiving tubes.  Often, they are military or industrial versions of standard tubes, allegedly built to more rugged or exacting specs.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

The idea has merit.  There are a few websites that offer tube type kits now.  The obstacles would be the manual kitting & any 'customer support' activities. I think your intended price range is very competitive, based on the other websites. 

[WA1GFZ]

As Don said grab all the good stuff. Then unload the weird stuff ASAP not worth the time and trouble.

[w3jn]

If you have a bunch of chassis and a punch, why not offer an "experimenters kit" with a cheapo chassis and maybe 4 holes pre-punched?   Judging from the hammy hambone homebrew stuff I've seen, chassis work seems to be a problem for many.

[Opcom]

The thought was to provide a tube, a spare, a socket, and as much instructions as can be put on a CDROM.

Documentation on a CD is simple, once it is done, and does not have to be different for each project or tube.
Tube manual
generic schematic
generic 'pictorial' diagram

and basic instructions showing:
what each part is on the pictorial and schematic and what it is for,
how to find the tube pinout in the manual and apply it to the schematic,
where to order the other parts
where to find 'free' parts, like salvaging a radio chassis or other junk.
what the voltages in the tube manual mean and how to make them or get them
-also the need for isolated power from the AC line
where to find free tech support - I won't be able to provide any, no time.

I am not going to supply any parts that connect to the AC line. I can't accept that kind of liability.
At $20-25 shipped, I do not have time to punch chassis or round up and package other items. I don't have the chassis anyway.

I'd rather involve the beginner in hunting their parts, and hopefully more experience and satisfaction would be gained.
If I were to supply certain things, like an output transformer, etc. the cost could not be $25.
--Triode USA gets $20 for a cheap OPT -5K Ohm, 6AQ5 type, 5W; and worse yet, a 3W Hammomd, 100Hz-15KHz, 25mA output transformer is going for $40!! this is absolutely insane because it is a $3 part at best.

Part of the fun and learning is to scrounge parts.
On the other hand, a Hammond plate trans. for 150V can be had for $17. A 6.3V 1A or 2A filament transformer looks like a 2250-to-6 Ohm transformer. This works pretty well for experimentation uses. I have a pair of PC speakers that use the 6.3V transformers for output. They make about 1W or so.

Do these factors (supplying only the tubes, socket, and CDROM) make it a bad idea?

[w3jn]

A cheap 300 ma 6.3 fil xformer makes a FB output tranny for a single ended 6V6 or 6AQ5.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

As GFZ and KYV said, "grab all the good stuff. Then unload the weird stuff ASAP not worth the time and trouble." Makes good sense.

And, you said, "The thought was to provide a tube, a spare, a socket, and as much instructions as can be put on a CDROM" "for $20-$25 shipped". The buyer then has to go out on the their own to find the rest of the parts  And further, you said, "Part of the fun and learning is to scrounge parts"  Maybe for you, but, I'm willing to bet, not for a lot of people.

Why don't you just take a medium or large USPS Flat Rate box, fill it with several pounds of stuff, and just sell it as a "Radio Experimenter's Mystery Box". Seems like a simple way to relieve yourself of parts/tubes/stuff/etc., and buyers can do whatever they want with it.

[Opcom]

OK I am convinced I suppose.
How do I unload these? -how to 'get rid of the weird stuff asap' being unable to make a real 'kit'.

1.) Tubes - It's been tried.. No one in the business of tubes wants odd-filament receiving tubes. Its the whole series filament string issue, they won't pay anything for them.

2.) I have hundreds of panel meters. - same issue, all different kinds..

3.) boxes and boxes of misc. coils, resistors, and capacitors.

4.) thousands of pilot lamps of odd voltages.

and many other parts too many to think of, boxes and boxes of them that I want rid of.



The experimenters' box seems like one way. maybe the post office flat rate box provided I can get an acct and never stand in a line to get supplies or to drop off packages in that awful place. (why I use fedex but it is too expensive to ship 'junk' with)

[Jim, W5JO]

Pat a gentleman I knew went SK a couple of years back.  He had scads of parts, transformers, resistors, caps, coils, coil stock, and many tubes.  The transformers ranged from those that could be used for receivers or small transmitters up to Gates BC 1 iron.

The people who bought the estate took only the equipment and left all the parts completely.  The problem is you will spend more time than the value if you try to sell the stuff.  Here all of it went to the dump ground that I did not save.  I didn't have enough room for a lot so I cried.  I tried every tube merchant I could find and none wanted the odd types even for shipping.

Do as suggested, keep the good stuff and throw away the rest.  You will spend less time and save more money.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The experimenters' box seems like one way. maybe the post office flat rate box provided I can get an acct and never stand in a line to get supplies or to drop off packages in that awful place. (why I use fedex but it is too expensive to ship 'junk' with)

The USPS medium flat rate priority mail box postage is 10.95 at the counter; 10.50 if you pay online and print your shipping label.

The USPS large flat rate priority mail box postage is 14.95 at the counter; 14.20 if you pay online and print your shipping label.

Drop the boxes at the counter and go, or just give them to your postal carrier.

[WD5JKO]

Patrick,

   Maybe come up with an audiophile amp made from vintage parts. Go for single ended, all triode, low power, and don't use any negative feedback. Make sure at least something says Western Electric too. Then put on the auction site for $10K "Buy it Now".

Jim
JKO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-VT52-45-245-Altec-Tube-Power-Amplifier-/260846663778?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cbbac3862#ht_4286wt_1185

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Patrick,

Make sure at least something says Western Electronic too. Then put on the auction site for $10K "Buy it Now".

Jim
JKO

I seriously doubt something saying Western Electronic will perk anyone's interest. 

[WD5JKO]

I seriously doubt something saying Western Electronic will perk anyone's interest. 

  Well maybe not most hams, but to some audiophiles, the WE name is nirvana. Just look at the mystery of the VT-52 used on that homemade amplifier using WE VT-52's:

http://www.vt52.com/

  Price of admission is $9999!! I bet it sells too, "as-is" 

Jim
JKO

[Opcom]

I'll look at the tubes closer and see if the price is ok for what I need and what may have to be pitched. All the other stuff did not have to be paid for, so no worry on that.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I seriously doubt something saying Western Electronic will perk anyone's interest. 

  Well maybe not most hams, but to some audiophiles, the WE name is nirvana. Just look at the mystery of the VT-52 used on that homemade amplifier using WE VT-52's:

Jim
JKO

Western Electric - Western Electronic  -  Different Companies

[WBear2GCR]

Patrick,

IF you have reasonable quantities of the SAME TYPE, then you may be able to do something... otherwise, NG.

The only way to do a kit today, one like you suggest, is to do a web page with a write up, full instructions, a youtoobe video, then be active on one or more DIY type audio or electronics sites talking about the project. Then you can sell the requisite tubes... that's a fair amount of effort, since you have to be prepared to field the newbie questions... so IF you can make $25/per kit profit, and you can sell 100 kits without much effort on your end (meaning that you have slaves to pack and label the boxes) and you can sell the kits in a reasonable period of time then you may have something worth trying - especially if you can follow it up with more and better... once you have the "captive audience".

No CD, no instructions, nothing printed except sales blurbs... everything on the web.

It's 2011 - Heathkit days are long gone.

              _-_-bear

PS. otherwise it's gonna be an ebay job, assuming you have quantity >10 per tube type, and better more like 100pcs per... then if you get $50 for a lot you might end up with enough to buy a nice used FLEX Radio!

[WBear2GCR]

I seriously doubt something saying Western Electronic will perk anyone's interest. 

  Well maybe not most hams, but to some audiophiles, the WE name is nirvana. Just look at the mystery of the VT-52 used on that homemade amplifier using WE VT-52's:

http://www.vt52.com/

  Price of admission is $9999!! I bet it sells too, "as-is" 

Jim
JKO

A bit OT, but Jim, where is this $9999 number? That's a home built system, looks pretty nice with Oris (tractrix) horns on a Lowther type speaker... I don't think he sells his system...??

[W1RC]

Not to discourage you Patrick, but you have to factor the value of your time into the equation.  I have learnt the hard way it's a heckuva lot harder to give away stuff than it is to toss it.

73,

MrMike, W1RC

[Opcom]

Many of the audiophool sites or products tend to whip up a fervor over the worship of one or two kinds of tubes, 'backed up' not by scientific information but by a long monologue.

The tubes or equipment in focus unsuprisingly seem to be the ones being sold at exhorbitant prices and often solely by the 'whippers' of the fervor. Those things are good for people who like to buy boutique art.

Best amp I ever listened to had a pair of 6CD6's with cathode feedback and global feedback. It sounded better than the no-feedback $15,000 SE 211 amp. It also made 40W, not 10W.

The best speakers have 2-4% THD at a few watts input and the single ended amplifier with no feedback is frequently no better. I have never seen a speaker system that stated THD at 110dB SPL, which is a reasonable requirement. They don't dare to do that because they don't like double digit facts. It does not matter how clean the amp is at that point.

[Opcom]

Not to discourage you Patrick, but you have to factor the value of your time into the equation.  I have learnt the hard way it's a heckuva lot harder to give away stuff than it is to toss it.

73,

MrMike, W1RC

There is a guy I know on ebay that was selling $5 tubes like a 6J6 for $35. They are NIB and all, but he claims that his high priced ones sell for more because people think they are getting something better. If I buy the lot, the unwanted tubes will end up in someone else's possession, and moved with their labor. There are collectors even for those. I just have to figure out if the tubes I want are worth the $ asked. I saw a couple of NIB 100TH's. Those would help defray costs of sold on ebay. I can see the ad copy now, "rare and unearthed from a private hoard, never touched.." Because of the volume, I don't want to pay more than $1 each for a NIB spare unless it is a power tube.

[W2PFY]

I would suggest running an ad in a national electronics magazine and sell grab bags filled with old hard to find parts. Just put all the small stuff in a barrel and mix it up, then sell it by the pound plus postage.

[WBear2GCR]

<snip>

The best speakers have 2-4% THD at a few watts input and the single ended amplifier with no feedback is frequently no better. I have never seen a speaker system that stated THD at 110dB SPL, which is a reasonable requirement. They don't dare to do that because they don't like double digit facts. It does not matter how clean the amp is at that point.

IF this was true at one time, it is no longer true.

More than a decade ago, I owned a pair of Stage Accompany printed ribbon tweeters. They ran from ~1.5kHz up past 20kHz... rated at 100db/1w/1m they also were spec'd at a level of 128dB SPL/1m and at that level they were <1% THD!! Work backwards to an average listening level of about 90-93dB SPL and you can see just how LOW the distortion of these units are/were... these were pro units intended for PA/SR use and studio monitor use.

However, almost all of the better pro drivers, especially compression drivers are spec'd for THD and IM at high or full power levels. JBL pro woofers are also spec'd similarly... many other manufacturers also do this.

FYI...

                _-_-bear

PS. I do not want to listen at 110dB average... thanks...

[Opcom]

110 is for peaks. Good news on the tweeters. I am glad you know about this and spoke up.

What brands of mids and other low frequency drivers have low distortion with high input power?

I would like to review the facts on them because soon I will replace those types in some enclosures here because I am increasing the power level. 15" and two 6" in each.

I was just on the JBL site  and didn't find any specs for high power. Only glossy marketing material. I guess I can call them with my needs and ask for assistance.