Best Looking Broadcast Transmitter in Ham Service

[K5UJ]

I know there are a lot of bc rigs out there (maybe not enough but a bunch) but what is a mystery to me is that I hear a few guys running them who fire them up regularly and operate but for every one of them there are probably a dozen that only come out of the wood work on heavy metal night.   I wonder if there is something about a bc rig that causes some owners to not want to run them much.  Except maybe in the hottest days of summer, I'd run one all the time if I had one to run.

[KA3ZLR]

Hi,

I've Noticed that as well.............

73
Jack
KA3ZLR

[Opcom]

I beg your pardon Shelby. The Vanguard-1 is not ugly at all. It's a matter of perspective.

By the way, your links aren't working.

Hmm, that rig looks familiar.  AHA It reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer

There is much to be said for a stylish or future-retro computer console if it is really functional. Computers today would have limited benefit for register and address lights, having so many virtual registers and other non-hardware structures, but I/O and other functions could be sampled and would make a nice and even a relatively meaningful 'load' display.

Maybe most people do not care in which way the computer is 'stopped up' -compute bound, disk bound, etc. but I care and if I know where a bottleneck is going to be, I can plan what I am doing to get the most from the machine.

The objection that the lights would flash too fast to see can be overcome by sample and hold. That nice round "CRT" on the Mk.V was really a rear projection screen, but there was an interactive art project in the early 1990's inspired by the MK.V to use a ruined NCR399 computer for its keyboard and console, and to the left its tape console and card cage replaced by a 22" round color TV CRT and pattern generators that would be connected to points inside an IBM PC/XT, which is a very simple and easy machine to access and hack.

The scheme was to have the CRT do the CGA video when the machine was displaying an answer or waiting for the user, but any time the prompt was unavailable (machine busy with something as an XT always is), the patterns of colored blocks would be displayed in sizes and positions depending on peripheral activity, and indeed the addresses and memory contents were to occupy several scan lines on the CRT with one for for each byte.  Unfortunately the funding vanished and I ended up with the massive NCR399 in my lab. The machine had to go, was 'dead' and unable to ever get working again, and I was only able to save the boards. The NCR399 was reputedly hated by its programmers but I found no fault with its appearance. Pics of the NCR399 are still here:
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ncr_01.htm
Some of my one time huge computer collection, at the time planned for a museum, can be seen here, It is what I did before deciding to get on the air.
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/indexcughcps.htm

OK - -back to pretty transmitters! - There are many styles but one thing that fires me up more than anything is a really industrial appearance where someone would have to look at it a while before trying to start it. many large meters 4" or more, meters with wide deflections more than 90 degrees, like 180-270, dozens of controls and lamps. It also should have a dignified trim and powerful finish that says in a manly sort of way, "I am the King Transmitter" or "I am the Grandfather of BC Transmitters"

I know there are a lot of bc rigs out there (maybe not enough but a bunch) but what is a mystery to me is that I hear a few guys running them who fire them up regularly and operate but for every one of them there are probably a dozen that only come out of the wood work on heavy metal night.   I wonder if there is something about a bc rig that causes some owners to not want to run them much.  Except maybe in the hottest days of summer, I'd run one all the time if I had one to run.

I appreciate those who might not have enough a/c or power budget to keep that sort of thing up. A BTA250 uses 1600W at carrier, how much for a KW unit at carrier? 4KW? What about having to move 20-30KC? I was under the impression BC units are narrowly tuned and can be fussy to move.

[KL7OF]

GPT 10K by TMC


[/quote]
Opcom said.......
OK - -back to pretty transmitters! - There are many styles but one thing that fires me up more than anything is a really industrial appearance where someone would have to look at it a while before trying to start it. many large meters 4" or more, meters with wide deflections more than 90 degrees, like 180-270, dozens of controls and lamps. It also should have a dignified trim and powerful finish that says in a manly sort of way, "I am the King Transmitter" or "I am the Grandfather of BC Transmitters"

[Detroit47]

I beg your pardon Shelby. The Vanguard-1 is not ugly at all. It's a matter of perspective.

By the way, your links aren't working.

I have to agree with Mike his Vanguard is a thing of beauty.

John N8QPC

[Bill, KD0HG]

The thing about the Gates Vanguard was they were reportedly horribly inefficient, ran hot and cooked PA tubes, which had a short life.There's some old Gates 1 KW plate modulated iron still in service at radio stations, Chinese 833s are still available for them, but I haven't heard of a single Vanguard still being in service, even as a backup.The only few that still exist are in ham shacks.

[k4kyv]

Any Western Electric, any vintage, any power level--they eats the others' lunch, IMHO.

As far as looks go, that is.

Keeping one running today may be a real challenge, 'specially if you want to run factory tubes.

73DG

ps...They were built into the early 50's, then the line was sold off to Continental in Dalllas.

W-E and Continental always ran low level modulation. I think Continental produced some Doherty amplifiers in their later transmitters, but AFAIK, neither W-E nor Continental ever built any high level plate modulated rigs. Continental made it a point in their sales brochures that the difference in efficiency between classic methods of high level and low level modulation is inconsequential when considering overall efficiency, i.e. the ratio of power drawn from the a.c. power mains to r.f. input to the antenna. For ham use, the primary advantage of plate modulation is ease of tuning up the transmitter and of QSYing.

Here is an interesting discussion of various AM modulation techniques, including Doherty, Kahn and PWM.

http://pasymposium.ucsd.edu/papers2006/1_1RaabPAW06.pdf

[Opcom]

yup. GPT 10K by TMC. That is the deal.. The manual would be a good read on that monster.

[W2XR]

I'm with KL7OF on this one.

If you want to consider a radio transmitter as an object d'art, I think the heavy TMC transmitters rank right up there, even if they are not broadcast rigs in the literal sense, although some GPT-40Ks were used as HF SWBC rigs in DSB inserted carrier service. Perhaps the GPT-750 and GPT-10K were used for this purpose as well; of this I am not certain.

Please also consider the GPT-10K's baby brother, the TMC GPT-750D-2:

[W2PFY]

GPT 10K by TMC

I want one

There was a Vanguard in use in central NJ still running about ten years ago. Maybe a super snoop could find this transmitter? I think it was over in Bound Brook.

[KL7OF]

The TMC GPT 10K  Has the oscillator(s)/exciter taking up the entire 6 ft rack on the left side...This rack produces a 1 watt signal at the desired freq and mode.....that one watt then moves over to the right side to drive a 6146 that drives a PL 1000(IPA) that drives a 4CX5000 (PA)...Built in antenna tuner, balanced 600 ohm or unbalanced 50 ohm out......  any freq between 1.5 and 30 Mhz  Takes about 8 days to effect a QSY... The manual for this TX weighs about 10 lbs...I have used a ricebox to drive the IPA and bypass the entire left rack....but it is not as much fun as firing up the entire radio...over 100 tubes...

[KA3ZLR]

The TMC GPT 10K  Has the oscillator(s)/exciter taking up the entire 6 ft rack on the left side...This rack produces a 1 watt signal at the desired freq and mode.....that one watt then moves over to the right side to drive a 6146 that drives a PL 1000(IPA) that drives a 4CX5000 (PA)...Built in antenna tuner, balanced 600 ohm or unbalanced 50 ohm out......  any freq between 1.5 and 30 Mhz  Takes about 8 days to effect a QSY... The manual for this TX weighs about 10 lbs...I have used a ricebox to drive the IPA and bypass the entire left rack....but it is not as much fun as firing up the entire radio...over 100 tubes...

Rather a Busy looking little transmixer set up there But I Like it.. it has that HOMEBUILTNESS look
to it Ya Know.....Most Excellent.

73
Jack
KA3ZLR

[K6IC]

The GPT-10K  is a great rig,  but,  for looks I still prefer the Collins 21-E.

This pic is K6OR,  Mike,  in front of his beautiful 21-E.

http://amfone.net/Gallery2/v/stations/k6or-1/mikexmtr-2.jpg.html?g2_GALLERYSID=8faa729b5c3a6e77ffe0483605ed93b7

Vic

[WA3VJB]

This pic is K6OR,  Mike,  in front of his beautiful 21-E.
Vic

Yup.  And in that picture, the Globe King looks like a little exciter module, yes ?

I had the great pleasure of helping move a 21-E from Virginia to New York a number of years ago.

An amazing adventure.  The components and cabinets were so much the rental truck nearly blew an oil filter. We stopped somewhere near Godforsaken, VA on a Sunday afternoon trying to buy some oil after MOST of the sump capacity had leaked away.

The transmitter went on to a new life on 80 meters, bringing many, many hours of pleasure to listeners and the Chief Operator alike.

[K6IC]

hey Paul,

Yes,  the GK is a bit over-scaled by the Collins.

Think that I recogize the 21-E in your photo ...  I did "help" move Mike's 21,  as well,  but the rental truck had a lift-gate rated for 2000 Lbs,  so it would take each bay with no real sweat,  altho,  the move was not as memorable as yours.

Sorry for the postage stamp photo,  mabe I can fix that.  That is the first image ever posted,  am a Novice.

73,  Vic

[W1ATR]

That 20v2 in the beginning of the thread is most beautiful. Are those 4x1's?? Holy Strap Batman.

That Vanguard looks cool and much smaller, but I get the feeling I should be getting a pack of Marb's out of it at 12:30 in the morning in some downtown dive.

How did all these TMC's get in here? The title of this thread is "best looking broadcast transmitter", not "What's the best transmitter ever made by mankind??"

[Opcom]

BC TX only? ok sorry to have fouled the thread with a desire for meters and controls..
I'm no expert but the appearance of certain transmitters reminds me of other equipment and some I just don't like. It does not mean I wouldn't have them. So don't take it the wrong way because these are constructive comments.

The RCA BTA1-MX reminds me of an industrial RF furnace. Open the door and remove the crucible.
The BTA-5 there looks like an uncle of the 11/780 or VAXbar.
The 20V - I have never liked transmitters that have the tubes mounted on the side walls. The view could be corrected by putting a V-shaped mirror in the center so the tubes could all be seen from the front.
The 300G looks best overall because the tubes are out front.
The Gates BC1-T reminds me of an imposing 50's robot.
The Vanguard reminds me of a 'Quad machine' That is a piece of video equipment for men. It didn't remind me of the MK.V.
The 451A-1 is one of the best looking with the tubes in front and the large round meters.
The 21-E is great looking, the problem is that when they get that large, the 'knobs and meters density' falls below a certain level.

[flintstone mop]

I beg your pardon Shelby. The Vanguard-1 is not ugly at all. It's a matter of perspective.

By the way, your links aren't working.

That was supposed to be the best hi fidelity AM transmitter around. I always enjoy the Gates or Harris sound......I do not know how GE got to be so big with their 50KW during the WABC heydays......Reports were that when they switched to a Harris MW-50 that the sound was not the same as the GE's..........okay broadcast radio chatter..........
Fred

[KA3EKH]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One of the most attractive features of the RCA for me is the ease of maintenance and modification. Front half of the transmitter provides access to all tubes and the back half to all components. The Collins 20V stuff is a maze of chassis and boxes that are a hassle to work on along with the strange plug in coil assemblies. The old Gates BC series had steel boiler plate sides that weighed a lot and were a problem to remove and had the fun feature of having exposed plate voltage on each side for the power control and metering.
The TMC stuff is great but once you allow that in it opens the door to T-368 and BC-610 transmitters and shortly no more broadcast stuff and people would be posting pictures of the stupid blue flex box. Ok, so it does everything, it’s a wonderful box and all that but what fun is a radio without one knob or meter?
The Vanguard is truly a strange looking thing, anyone have a picture of what's inside it? I have been doing broadcast stuff for a while now and never seen anything like it. When was it produced? Must have been what was between the Gates/Harris BC series and the MW series.

[W2PFY]

The TMC stuff is great but once you allow that in it opens the door to T-368 and BC-610 transmitters and shortly no more broadcast stuff and people would be posting pictures of the stupid blue flex box. Ok, so it does everything, it’s a wonderful box and all that but what fun is a radio without one knob or meter?

What?  This thought pattern throws me for a loop! Are you suggesting that if we want to talk about non BC rigs that we take it to another thread? I like all of it, BC Military, Class E and yes Flex radios!! Except for the Smug operators and not the transmitter itself, all is great! Ok, now I am going back into the AM closet

 

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

The old Gates BC series had steel boiler plate sides that weighed a lot and were a problem to remove

The 300G is laid out nicely with tubes, coils, crystal oscillators in front behind a large door, and the iron and other goodies in back. The only PITA issue with it is the feedline arrangement, which requires removing one of the side panels to service. The side panels are actually two separate pieces which must be the better part of 200 lbs or more, and close to 7 feet tall. And the clips used to hold them in place at the front are interesting, too. Fortunately the side panels shouldn't need removing too often.

I'd say the TMC 10K or any unit built for SWBC would be in the same category as BC transmitters, unless you throw in the HiFi aspect. Not sure they were designed for that, though are probably capable of decent fidelity. Johnny's GPT-750 sounds nice on the air. Wouldn't surprise me if they had been used for broadcast purposes at some point as there are numerous stories and examples of the KW-1 being pressed into service for broadcasting in different banana republics, as well as by at least one bible thumper group for SW use (they actually had two of them). But neither fall into the BC category beyond incidental.

That 20v2 in the beginning of the thread is most beautiful. Are those 4x1's?? Holy Strap Batman.

Yep. They used Fo-FoHunnerts originally, but Robert's rebuilds take the term 'Voice Modulated Carrier' to new levels. Hey, if you're gonna do it, do it big!

That Vanguard looks cool and much smaller, but I get the feeling I should be getting a pack of Marb's out of it at 12:30 in the morning in some downtown dive.

I drew a response from Mike in a similar thread a couple years back when I nominated the Vanguard as ugly duckling. So I refrained this time because Mike is a great guy who's done well to get his Vanguard into top shape by the looks of it. It's a pretty cool concept actually, I think the execution was just off a bit. Heard different stories from the economical design being made primarily for small stations with low budgets or as back up transmitters.

But the visual still nagged at me, couldn't nail it down beyond one of those 60s jukeboxes in a backstreet bar. Then while traveling recently, it hit me: it looks remarkably like the ice machine in a hotel I stayed at. Just a tad smaller.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. Just ask some of the wooden radio guys what they think aesthetically of those gray and black boxes we call receivers. "Too industrial looking", "too cold", "no personality" "no style" are just a few that I've heard over the years. Kinda how I feel about plastic radios, go figure.

[w3jn]

How did all these TMC's get in here? The title of this thread is "best looking broadcast transmitter", not "What's the best transmitter ever made by mankind??"

 

[k4kyv]

The TMC stuff is great but once you allow that in it opens the door to T-368 and BC-610 transmitters and shortly no more broadcast stuff and people would be posting pictures of the stupid blue flex box.

Technically, the BC-610 might legitimately be classified as a broadcast transmitter. More than few were said to have been commandeered into broadcast service by US forces shortly after V-E and V-J day, to provide news and entertainment for members of the occupation forces, the embryonic stage of AFRS. That supposedly was the reason for the 1.0-1.5 mc/s and 1.5-2.0 mc/s BC-610 coils. The original military coils nominally reached down only to about 2.0 mc/s. Hams used them with the 50 pf fixed vacuum padder in place to cover 160m.  I came upon a box full of those MF coils at a hamfest years ago. Re-built a couple to make a 160m grid coil for my homebrew HF-300 rig, and let Roger, N4IBF(SK) have a  couple for his BC-610. He used them on 160 without the additional plug-in fixed vacuum cap. I still have 2 or 3, intact, in my parts collection, if the plastic supports for the air-core windings haven't completely self-destructed.

Maybe there are still some WW2 vets around who could tell more of the story, or perhaps some our military radio buffs?

[ke7trp]

w0vmc Collins 20V is my favorite.  The Western electic at Ni6Q is also high on the list.

http://www.qrz.com/db/NI6Q

[KA3EKH]

The western electric certainly is pretty! But I still stand by the straight forward design of the RCA; The Western Electric almost looks too fancy for a broadcast transmitter, maybe like it should be in a drug store?
I got into radio when I was in high school back in 77/78 and at that time the FCC had removed the requirement for the control operator to be able to see the transmitter while on the air. It was before my time but have been in old stations where the air studio looked thru a window on the transmitter room and maybe when the FCC removed the requirement to see the transmitter that put a end to the pretty boxes like the Western Electric, chrome like on the Gates and RCA and huge rounded body panels like the Collins? Almost surprised the Collins twenty series did not spout fins and tail lights.