Who on 3880?

[W2DU]

I started listening on 3880 at 8:35  tonight (8-25) There were two AMers, each running fairly long xmsns, beginning with sigs around S5-7, and gradually increasing to 20 over 9. The problem, as I saw it,  there were no id's, with the QSO running more than a half hour. One was 'Blaine', but the other gave no name.

Just curious--was anyone else monitoring 3880 from 8:35 to around 9:10?

I've listened around this frequency many nights, but this is the first I've heard any AMers with sigs strong enough for intelligibility. Sure would like to know who those two were.

Walt

[K5UJ]

Walt, I don't know.  I was on there tonight with Rock, N8AGJ, and some other guys--I think I started up around 8:50 central which was probably 9:50 your time and went for an hour, but no one named Blaine in there.  We all IDed regularly in a round robin at the start and finish of each transmission.  I wasn't listening earlier so I don't know what was going on.

Rob

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Blaine is most likely N1GTU, one of the admins here. He puts out a pretty potent signal, though it's been a while since I heard him on the air.

A lot of static down here tonight from a line of thunderstorms drifting down through VA. I'm really looking forward to cooler wx.

[WA3VJB]

Walt, not sure what kind of receive set-up you've got there, but some of us have run a sub-audible, low frequency automated CW identifier that goes off on the nearest 10 minute mark.  

I'm using an old broadcast "cart" machine but I know of at least one other computer-based station that does it in the software.

The receiving station would need decent low frequency (bass) response to hear it beneath the spoken word underway on a given transmission. I can see it on the scope during transmit, and usually can hear it on receive off the diode of either the R390A or SP600.

[KC9LKE]

Walt:

In response to this part of the post:

"I've listened around this frequency many nights, but this is the first I've heard any AMers with sigs strong enough for intelligibility. Sure would like to know who those two were."


Guessing that you are at the “summer “QTH.

IIRC there is a Blaine in our area also. I usually hear him in QSO with WA8UAS.

But these guys ID all of the time.

Possibly KG8LB could shed some light on the matter.

Best Regards
Ted / KC9LKE

[KX5JT]

Walt, not sure what kind of receive set-up you've got there, but some of us have run a sub-audible, low frequency automated CW identifier that goes off on the nearest 10 minute mark.  

I'm using an old broadcast "cart" machine but I know of at least one other computer-based station that does it in the software.

The receiving station would need decent low frequency (bass) response to hear it beneath the spoken word underway on a given transmission. I can see it on the scope during transmit, and usually can hear it on receive off the diode of either the R390A or SP600.

Wouldn't this be contrary to the intent of the FCC rule?  Really?  Kinda like putting those tinted covers on vehicle license plates?

[WA3VJB]

Nope, it's just like FM repeater IDs.

[KX5JT]

Nope, it's just like FM repeater IDs.

Oh.  I never not heard an FM repeater ID, but then I haven't heard an FM repeater in years.

[WA3VJB]

I guess the enforcement division would have to parse out some kind of test as to "audible" levels of modulation, but if it's there, it's there.  

Think of someone with only SSB capability.  Poor devil. But it's not the transmitting station's fault if that receiving station cannot properly listen to AM. I think it applies to any kind of reception -- if the information is there, then it's up to the receiving end to configure accordingly.

Also, on some of these hybrid FM hookups that interface with the internet, some of the links use CW ID at low levels, both in frequency and in volume. The little 2" speaker on a hand-held mechanically filters it out or renders it pretty much inaudible.

Somewhat related, the proprietary WinLink telemetry system on HF ordinarily requires users to ID in the clear, intended to mean a CW identifier.  This is seldom done in these automated exchanges, yet I haven't heard of any enforcement action. The reason that's been a controversy is that the automated systems do not listen before transmitting to ensure the frequency is not in use.

Aggrieved parties cannot learn the offender if they can't identify them.

One question I've had is whether Part 97 allows modulated CW on HF as an incidental part of a wholesome AM signal, such as for the purposes of identification.  On its own, modulated CW is not authorized below 6 meters.

[WD8BIL]

Interestingly Walt, I was listening on the outside speaker and heard Blaine I.D. a couple of times. 

[W2VW]

Walt, not sure what kind of receive set-up you've got there, but some of us have run a sub-audible, low frequency automated CW identifier that goes off on the nearest 10 minute mark.  

I'm using an old broadcast "cart" machine but I know of at least one other computer-based station that does it in the software.

The receiving station would need decent low frequency (bass) response to hear it beneath the spoken word underway on a given transmission. I can see it on the scope during transmit, and usually can hear it on receive off the diode of either the R390A or SP600.

Having invented this in the late 80s I feel obligated to mention not all of these work the same way.

Mine requires observation of a large woofer connected to a remote receiver. When properly connected the identification dashes pull the cone in and the dits push the speaker cone outward.

I understand others with limited low frequency response have a work-around. Maybe they will let us know.

[KB2WIG]

" but then I haven't heard an FM repeater in years. "


I think this is called 'full quieting"

klc

[W2PFY]

I think having a CW tone is a great idea for ID's on any HF band. One of the things I learned from my thread back about a week ago about  "operating in the US and transmitting from Canada" is that Canadians are required to ID every 30 minutes. I think this is a long over due idea to present to the FCC for rule makings. How did they decide to make it every ten minutes in the first place?

[W2VW]

Have you seen any of this Terry?

http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-again-denies-amateur-s-em-petition-em-regarding-station-identification

[k4kyv]

IIRC, it's every 15 minutes in the UK.

[Blaine N1GTU]

wow, im causing quite the ruckus lately  
I try to ID as often as i can, but sometimes if I am in the conversation and people get into a longwinded discussion i tend to walk away from the rig and let the dog out/laundry/phone call etc
maybe i should do a fast CW ID like a repeater, everytime i release the key it will ID for me

[W2DU]

Been away nearly all day, so just now reading the posts. Thank you Julius, for letting me know that Blaine IDed--apparently I missed hearing him.

Yes, I'm at my Summer QTH, Mt. Pleasant, MI. My rx here is a Kenwood TS-530S, so not hearing with an AM rx. Also poor low freq response, so would not hear a sub-audible CW ID.

At my Florida QTH I'm on AM by unbalancing the the balanced modulator of a Heathkit HW-100, followed by an Ameritron AL80A amp.

We'll be back in FL on Oct 19. Then I'll be able to QSO with this great group of AM people, the real engineers of ham radio.

Walt

[W2PFY]

Hello Walt, a major hi jack here, do you remember when WLW was running 500 KW? If so, would you tell us about it please

Did it burn a hole in the sky etc

[Blaine N1GTU]

oh out in michigan, it may have been me but i think there is another Blaine out that way, heard him a few times over the past few years but dont think i ever spoke with him.

[W2DU]

Yes Terry, I certainly do remember WLW at 500 KW ! Mason, OH, is 400 mi from my Mt. Pleasant, MI QTH, which is where I lived then also. 50 KWers were WJR Detroit, WGN, WMAQ, Chicago. Their solid day-time ground-wave signals averaged 20 over 9 on my RME-69. Detroit was 125 mi airline and Chicago was 250 mi.

However, when WLW was running 500 KW it pegged the needle against the pin of the S meter. Many strange things happened with its humungous signal. Too many to remember.

[W2PFY]

Too many to remember.

Well thanks Walt, there is no one left that I know of that can relate to the operation of WLW first hand. I would like to encourage you to put what you remember from time to time on paper, for the sake of history and good reading! So if you can think of anything else as time goes by, let us know

Thanks again

[Opcom]

"Poor devil. But it's not the transmitting station's fault if that receiving station cannot properly listen to AM. I think it applies to any kind of reception -- if the information is there, then it's up to the receiving end to configure accordingly."

The sword has two edges. Someone running a PACTOR III MODEM is essentially ID-less and within the rules. Unless the poor devil being annoyed has also payed the for the modem and additional software sold separately for even more money. It is unlikely to happen but needs mentioned.