Maybe a reprieve from having to use CFLs?

[W3GMS]

Frank,

Yes a lot of the agency testing is tuff but its the law and we always did it.  At times I was under tremendous pressure by upper more senior management than me to sign off on documents saying we passed when we did not.  Since I was the manager and had the overall responsible, I never gave in.  There were some real shouting matching behind closed doors in my office!  If we missed a ship schedule then we would just miss the ship date until the problem was fixed.     

Since we sold products all over the world we had to deal with individual agencies in many countries.  The EU (European Union) is somewhat harmonized.  Many of those countries outside of the EU had there own specific regulations.  China was really tuff, so its ironic that we suspect that a lot of there stuff does not meet the required EMI and overall regulatory requirements.  I can tell you stories sometimes about the regulatory structure in China and some of our trials and tribulations but I will wait until I see you!!  Thailand and Korea were interesting to deal with as well.  The bottom line for products leaving the US, is that you could not ship them to any country whose symbol did not appear on your product label.       

Radiated EMI got tougher and tougher to meet since manufacturing facilities wanted snap together assemblies without needing any tools to put something together.  At the same time our clock frequencies on multiple core processors kept going higher and higher so it presented its own set of challenges.  As differential signal transmissions became more and more common, having a balance pair really helped. 

Jim,
The CFL that I have seen do have a safety certification marked on them.


Joe, W3GMS

   

[W1RKW]

On some or most CFL packaging they mention the method of use.  In a lot of cases they state not to use them in enclosed fixtures or in orientations other than straight up and down for heat dissapation.  If that's true then what good are they.  Even in standard table top light fixtures I've had them just plain quit, flicker then quit or worse and flame out and smoke up your place like John stated.  If heat is an issue then why not provide ventilation to the electronics?  I thought about drilling holes in them because I have had many fail in ceiling fixtures.  I've opened up failed CFLs and I can't believe that these things don't have thermal fuses in them for situations where they overheat.  A friend of mine who is a fire fighter stated that CFLs should be used in a vertical orientation with glass up and in a open fixture for longevity and safety. I argued that having one in an enclosed fixture would be safer because I don't trust the things.

Add one more thing. I haven't been to a rock concert in a very long time. I went to a Deep Purple concert in Hartford last month.  Most of their stage lighting used LEDs  or LED arrays driven by controllers.  Not only where the LEDs bright but they had control over brightness and hue by blending various colors.  As someone mentioned, I don't know how long an LED array would last having the snots driven out of them but they sure look good. Stage lighting sure has changed in the last 10 or so years.

[Jim KF2SY]

On some or most CFL packaging they mention the method of use.  In a lot of cases they state not to use them in enclosed fixtures or in orientations other than straight up and down for heat dissapation.  If that's true then what good are they.  Even in standard table top light fixtures I've had them just plain quit, flicker then quit or worse and flame out and smoke up your place like John stated.  If heat is an issue then why not provide ventilation to the electronics?  I thought about drilling holes in them because I have had many fail in ceiling fixtures.  I've opened up failed CFLs and I can't believe that these things don't have thermal fuses in them for situations where they overheat.  A friend of mine who is a fire fighter stated that CFLs should be used in a vertical orientation with glass up and in a open fixture for longevity and safety. I argued that having one in an enclosed fixture would be safer because I don't trust the things.

Add one more thing. I haven't been to a rock concert in a very long time. I went to a Deep Purple concert in Hartford last month.  Most of their stage lighting used LEDs  or LED arrays driven by controllers.  Not only where the LEDs bright but they had control over brightness and hue by blending various colors.  As someone mentioned, I don't know how long an LED array would last having the snots driven out of them but they sure look good. Stage lighting sure has changed in the last 10 or so years.

RKW,
That concurs with what I've read in one of the trade magazines.  It's heat and postioning of the bulb and it's ability for the components to properly withstand the heat.  I've also had them flameout (generics) in some ceiling fan fixtures.  The best CFL's I've ever tried here are the early ones made by Phillips.  They were close to $10 bux each but they actually lasted their advertised 7 plus years.  
Worst CFL"s ever bought were the generic "CE" Central Lighting? brand from Home Cheapo.  They lasted maybe a month or two.....returned.   The only CFL's I will buy now are the name brand only, GE, Phillips etc.   The generic crap from dubious Chinese manufacturers are just too dangerous, IMO.

 

[kb3wbb]

I removed all CFL's after one caught fire in the basement. Fortunately I was there when it happened and disaster was avioded. I did some research and found out it's not a rarity. In fact one mfg's bulbs have been recalled. Nobody, no govt agency or anyone else is going to force me to put my family at risk and the risks are real. Ever read the EPA guidelines for a broken CFL? I am stocking up on conventional bulbs and intend to continue to use them until a reasonable and safe alternative is produced. I have looked at LED's and they are promising but not at $12 per.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Once I run out of Incandescent bulbs, I'll fill my lamp with whale oil.

[W3SLK]

Ed said:

Once I run out of Incandescent bulbs, I'll fill my lamp with whale oil.

I hope you have an adequate supply of whale oil Ed. Congress failed to rescind the "CFL" law.

[flintstone mop]

On some or most CFL packaging they mention the method of use.  In a lot of cases they state not to use them in enclosed fixtures or in orientations other than straight up and down for heat dissapation.  If that's true then what good are they.  Even in standard table top light fixtures I've had them just plain quit, flicker then quit or worse and flame out and smoke up your place like John stated.  If heat is an issue then why not provide ventilation to the electronics?  I thought about drilling holes in them because I have had many fail in ceiling fixtures.  I've opened up failed CFLs and I can't believe that these things don't have thermal fuses in them for situations where they overheat.  A friend of mine who is a fire fighter stated that CFLs should be used in a vertical orientation with glass up and in a open fixture for longevity and safety. I argued that having one in an enclosed fixture would be safer because I don't trust the things.

Add one more thing. I haven't been to a rock concert in a very long time. I went to a Deep Purple concert in Hartford last month.  Most of their stage lighting used LEDs  or LED arrays driven by controllers.  Not only where the LEDs bright but they had control over brightness and hue by blending various colors.  As someone mentioned, I don't know how long an LED array would last having the snots driven out of them but they sure look good. Stage lighting sure has changed in the last 10 or so years.

LED lighting has come a long way. Still outrageous $$$$. I made a post during the Winter that a little city South of New Castle Pa................Ellwood City............lights all of their streets with LED street lamps.........they are brighter than the mercury or sodium lights. Of course, they are promoting their own LED manufacturing company located in Ellwood City.

http://www.ietcompany.com/case-study-ellwood-city.html

Fred

[W3GMS]

Just in....

http://www.edn.com/blog/PowerSource/41188-_Republicans_failed_to_grant_Americans_the_freedom_to_buy_inefficient_light_bulbs_.php

Joe, W3GMS

[WA1GFZ]

is there no end to the stupidity from the party of the rich

[W1VD]

is there no end to the stupidity from the party of the rich

Frank

According to the article voting went as follows:

For repeal: 223 Republicans + 5 Democrats = 228

Against repeal: 10 Republicans + 183 Democrats = 193

Passage required a 2/3 majority. Even if the 10 republicans that voted against repeal went the other way it still wouldn't have passed.

Party of the rich? Please explain.

 

[Steve - K4HX]

Let's not invade Frank's fantasy world with facts.

is there no end to the stupidity from the party of the rich

Frank

According to the article voting went as follows:

For repeal: 223 Republicans + 5 Democrats = 228

Against repeal: 10 Republicans + 183 Democrats = 193

Passage required a 2/3 majority. Even if the 10 republicans that voted against repeal went the other way it still wouldn't have passed.

Party of the rich? Please explain.

 

[WA1GFZ]

I stand corrected, I was wrong

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Ed said:

Once I run out of Incandescent bulbs, I'll fill my lamp with whale oil.

I hope you have an adequate supply of whale oil Ed. Congress failed to rescind the "CFL" law.

Whale oil no problem.  Also ordering lightbulbs (real ones) online from overseas suppliers no problem. Higher voltage bulbs working on our 120v (or what ever it is today) mains will last longer anyway. 

I have yet to see a flourescent of any kind that would turn on if I used it in my outside lights here in January or February when the temps hit anything below 40 degrees. 

[Jim KF2SY]

Ed said:

Once I run out of Incandescent bulbs, I'll fill my lamp with whale oil.

I hope you have an adequate supply of whale oil Ed. Congress failed to rescind the "CFL" law.

Whale oil no problem.  Also ordering lightbulbs (real ones) online from overseas suppliers no problem. Higher voltage bulbs working on our 120v (or what ever it is today) mains will last longer anyway. 

I have yet to see a flourescent of any kind that would turn on if I used it in my outside lights here in January or February when the temps hit anything below 40 degrees. 

I've been using CFL's in our outside lampost for over 15 years.  They turn on just fine in the dead of Winter.  Ok, maybe a little slower in the cold wx, but they turn on.   

[K3ZS]

I stand corrected, I was wrong

Not quite, look at who and when it was originally passed.

[kb3wbb]

I stand corrected, I was wrong

Not quite, look at who and when it was originally passed.

Then look at who controlled the majority in Congress when it was passed.

[WB3JOK]

I have had good experiences with name-brand CFL's too. Stay away from the cheap ones... fire hazard aside, they just don't work!

I got a no-name "contractor pack" (18 lamps?) at Home Depot once, 9 year warranty, and within 2 years two of them would start to flicker until turned off and back on, at which point they would be stable for another few minutes. HD gave me a $5 gift card for the 2 bulbs. I wonder when the rest are going to fail similarly.

More recently I decided to try the WalChinaMart cheapos. Got a three-pack at a very low price. One wouldn't light at all, and the next lit up for 2 seconds and died. Didn't bother trying the third, just got my money back. The GE branded replacements worked perfectly.

[WA1GFZ]

Please excuse my rant, I paid less then 1% federal income tax last year which is pretty stupid.

[KF1Z]

Those Home-Depot Contractor packs is what I use.

I have had a couple fail, but some have been going for just over 5 years.
Granted, those are the least used ones in the house ( bedroom ceiling )
I use those in the outside lamp as well.
"Instant gratification" in the winter?  NO, but only takes 30 or 40 seconds to light up all the way.


W3SLK, I wonder why you are ordering bulbs from overseas?
Regular incandescent bulbs are still on store shelves around here. ( even the 130v )
Maybe that's cause we're out in the woods..  when they say OLD STOCK... they MEAN it!  :-)

[WA1GFZ]

Wanna try something interesting. Wire two 100 watt bulbs in series and connect it to 120 VAC. Pretty good light for 25 watts. The bulbs need to be matched or one will how the voltage.

[k4kyv]

Please excuse my rant, I paid less then 1% federal income tax last year which is pretty stupid.

I had to pay income tax on my Social Security income last year, because my wife hasn't retired yet and still works. I would have still owed it even if we had filed separately. Talk about a "marriage penalty". 

[Opcom]

Wanna try something interesting. Wire two 100 watt bulbs in series and connect it to 120 VAC. Pretty good light for 25 watts. The bulbs need to be matched or one will how the voltage.

That is very interesting and they could last 'forever'. One would think that putting a diode in series with a filament lamp would produce a similar lifespan but it has never worked out like that for me, not sure why. Maybe the waveform rattles it to death.

[WA1GFZ]

I put a pair of 100 watt bulbs in series under the water meter at the beach house during the winter. Then I cover it with foam insulation panels so it doesn't freeze. They run from Thanksgiving to April 24/7. Same bulbs since 2003.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Ed said:

Once I run out of Incandescent bulbs, I'll fill my lamp with whale oil.

I hope you have an adequate supply of whale oil Ed. Congress failed to rescind the "CFL" law.

Whale oil no problem.  Also ordering lightbulbs (real ones) online from overseas suppliers no problem. Higher voltage bulbs working on our 120v (or what ever it is today) mains will last longer anyway. 

I have yet to see a flourescent of any kind that would turn on if I used it in my outside lights here in January or February when the temps hit anything below 40 degrees. 

I've been using CFL's in our outside lampost for over 15 years.  They turn on just fine in the dead of Winter.  Ok, maybe a little slower in the cold wx, but they turn on.   

Yea but when I'm headed down the outside stairs in -10 degree wheather with my arms full of something, I need that light to come on, not after it warms up, but before my foot hits that top slipery step.  Same thing with the basement steps.  I guess I am just spoilt by having grown up with IOL - Instant On Lighting...  I'm sure I'll get used to it, just like I'll get used to not getting health care (Thanks Guys!!). 

What's truely ironic is that high efficiency filament type bulbs have been developed that could rival CFLS by using various thin film coatings on the filament to increase output.  These would have only been slightly more expensive than normal, less toxic to the environment, and former manufactureres could have easily transistions since it was simply a filament material change to them.   

Now that the market for filament bulbs will be drying up, and so has any research into a viable low cost high efficiency replacment type.  This also means any potential benifits or offshoots of said research is also lost.

This sort of thing happens when well meaning but ignorant people want to force others to 'do whats right', when the fact is they have no real clue. 

Politics - From the Greek Poly- meaning many and from -Tics, meaning blood sucking mindless parisites.

[John Holotko]

Sounds like another case of the lawmakers run amok. Reminds me of the 75% tax on tobacco here in New York.  Every time I order a tin of pipe tobacco I have to pay a 75% tax just because I live in NY. All other states are exempt. I won;t be surprised  if they end up allowing incandescent bulbs to be sole but eventually impose a high tax on then 

In this case it should be my business what type of lighting I use in my home, not  some lawmaker telling me how to light up my home.  And they argue that they are doing this to "protect the environment". As if they really care.