The AM Forum
March 28, 2024, 09:22:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Links Staff List Gallery Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Maybe a reprieve from having to use CFLs?  (Read 51397 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Jim, W5JO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2506


« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2011, 02:13:53 PM »

Don- They've had long-persistence phosphors forever, going back to the CRT days, why haven't they been used in both traditional and compact florescents? Maybe most people don't notice the flicker?

 I have never noticed any flicker in fluorescent lamps in this country, except in a fluorescent tube that was failing,
Since CFLs operate at radio frequencies, typically below the AM broadcast band, there should be no visible flicker in any country.

My wife can detect the flicker and as a result we bought light fixtures for our new house that does not use florescent tubes.  She will pay for LED if necessary to avoid florescent.  Good LED bulbs with enough light output is VERY expensive.  Check the prices at places like Bulb Direct and such.  Makes me want to close the EPA and other agencies.  When I get to be King!
Logged
K2PG
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 174


« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2011, 03:32:47 PM »

My wife can detect the flicker and as a result we bought light fixtures for our new house that does not use florescent tubes.  She will pay for LED if necessary to avoid florescent.  Good LED bulbs with enough light output is VERY expensive.  Check the prices at places like Bulb Direct and such.  Makes me want to close the EPA and other agencies.  When I get to be King!

If an LED is operated directly from an AC power source, it, too, will flicker. Since an LED is a diode, it will only conduct over half of the cycle. It will only produce light over the conducting half of the cycle. Try a little experiment: Connect a red LED in series with a 470 ohm resistor and use a 6.3 volt filament transformer as a power source. Out of the corner of your eye, you will see flicker in the LED. That will probably drive your wife crazy!
Logged
K6JEK
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1189


RF in the shack


« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2011, 03:46:45 PM »

...
you will see flicker in the LED. That will probably drive your wife crazy!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036855/


* gaslight.jpg (21.99 KB, 214x317 - viewed 590 times.)
Logged
W3GMS
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3063



« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 04:35:57 PM »

Home Depot has some good sales on 60W contractor packs of incandescent bulbs from time to time.  I have several hundred stocked away at this point.  They are made by Phillips and 16 per carton.  I think I paid a little under 3 bucks for the entire 16 pack.  I usually have to replace them every 6 months or so.   

Joe, W3GMS     
Logged

Simplicity is the Elegance of Design---W3GMS
W1RKW
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4410



« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 04:40:32 PM »

When the cold and dark season comes I swap out the CFLs for incandescents for the lights that are regularly used and use them to supplement the heating bill.  The house is fairly heat efficient so heat from the bulbs causes the oil burner to run a tiny bit less.   Plus since 75m QRN is less it makes sense to reduce the background noise.
Logged

Bob
W1RKW
Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
WA1GFZ
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11152



« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2011, 05:00:08 PM »

I've also been watching LED prices. they should be dirt cheap when I run out of bulbs. I bet 1/2 the leads conduct at a time to eliminate flicker by conducting over the whole cycle
Logged
Pete, WA2CWA
Moderator
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8154


CQ CQ CONTEST


WWW
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2011, 05:12:44 PM »

I have never noticed any flicker in fluorescent lamps in this country, except in a fluorescent tube that was failing, but I could see it at the ends of fluorescent tubes in Europe, where the line frequency is 50 Hz. However, there is some flicker in 60 Hz countries. You can see evidence of it by placing a strobe disc on a turntable and viewing it under fluorescent light. If the lines creep, the turntable is running off-speed. The strobe lines will not be visible under incandescent light and they should not be visible under CFL light, for the reason mentioned below.

Since CFLs operate at radio frequencies, typically below the AM broadcast band, there should be no visible flicker in any country.

I have fluorescent lighting over my workbench area. Replaced some drive belts on two turntables and was able to view the strobe lines on the strobe disc markings that were on each platter. Made it easy to adjust the variable speed motors driving the platter to eliminate too fast/slow platter movement by watching the strobe markings for zero creep. I could not see or feel any fluorescent flicking even after several hours at the workbench. I've used fluorescent lighting there for over 30 years.
Logged

Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Pete, WA2CWA
Moderator
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8154


CQ CQ CONTEST


WWW
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2011, 05:18:39 PM »

Home Depot has some good sales on 60W contractor packs of incandescent bulbs from time to time.  I have several hundred stocked away at this point.  They are made by Phillips and 16 per carton.  I think I paid a little under 3 bucks for the entire 16 pack.  I usually have to replace them every 6 months or so.   

Joe, W3GMS     

I bought a bunch of these contractor packs too. We have several light fixtures, where, because of the decorative glass design, CFL's won't work unless you remove and discard the decorative glass. So, for now, regular incandescent bulbs will only work in these fixtures.
Logged

Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Jim, W5JO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2506


« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2011, 06:00:07 PM »

]

If an LED is operated directly from an AC power source, it, too, will flicker. Since an LED is a diode, it will only conduct over half of the cycle. It will only produce light over the conducting half of the cycle. Try a little experiment: Connect a red LED in series with a 470 ohm resistor and use a 6.3 volt

You tryfilament transformer as a power source. Out of the corner of your eye, you will see flicker in the LED. That will probably drive your wife crazy!
  Are you trying to reduce my manhood?
Logged
N4LTA
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1075


« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2011, 09:04:18 PM »

I just bought about 35 - 5 and 6 watt warm white LED bulbs and they are great. Very warm light and fully dimmable. No one has noticed that they are not incandescents. They are getting cheaper and they have an expected life of 20 years and a no questions asked 10 year replacement warranty. Cost about $12 each,  but cut my lighting consumption by at least 90%. In a year or two, they will replace CFLs for non comercial use.

I also bought several 14 watt outdoor floods and they are also very nice and bright and warm.

I probably wouldn't recommend getting them quite yet because of cost - but they will eventually replace incandescents and CFL. They are doing so quickly in commercial and industrial use. The new 400 watt metal halide LED replacement fixtures are amazing with beautiful color and low wattage. Still a little expensive but have taken on the old reliable highly energy efficiency fixtures and beaten them by 1/2.
Logged
K5UJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2845



WWW
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2011, 10:00:06 PM »

When the cold and dark season comes I swap out the CFLs for incandescents for the lights that are regularly used and use them to supplement the heating bill.  The house is fairly heat efficient so heat from the bulbs causes the oil burner to run a tiny bit less.   Plus since 75m QRN is less it makes sense to reduce the background noise.

That's not a bad idea.  Expecially if you can get the 130 v. filaments.
Logged

"Not taking crap or giving it is a pretty good lifestyle."--Frank
W1ATR
Resident HVAC junkie
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1132


« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2011, 10:11:28 PM »

White LEDs are actually blue LEDs with a phosphor coating. The overall spectral output of the phophor is broad and apprear as white to the eye. But they still have a strong peak in 450-475 nm range.


Quote
LED white, like CFL white are RGB mixes...



Yeah and they run cooler too so the FLIR equipped choppers don't see bright red roofs on a night time sweep of the city. j/k Tongue Tongue
Logged

Don't start nuthin, there won't be nuthin.

Jared W1ATR


Click for radio pix
k4kyv
Contributing Member
Don
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 10057



« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2011, 10:21:06 PM »

What business would they have flying over and scanning my roof anyway?
Logged

Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

- - -
This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
Steve - K4HX
Guest
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2011, 10:24:23 PM »

What business do they have in flying satellites and doing the same thing for the last several decades? What business does Google have driving by your house and taking photos? It's not about business. You're asking the wrong question.
Logged
W1AEX
Un-smug-a-licious
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1488


Apache Labs SDR


WWW
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2011, 11:15:28 PM »

No need for a government ban on incandescents. If CFLs, or something else that comes along, really are superior, people will buy them and eventually incandescents will effectively phase themselves out as sales slow to a trickle.

That's exactly right Don. I suspect that it was never necessary to ban the horse and buggy once the internal combustion engine hit the streets.

The three pictures below show the empty package for a $19 Philips 40 watt equivalent LED bulb (8 watts - promising a 25,000 hour lifespan) that is shown competing with a 40 watt incandescent in the next picture. The light is so similar that in the last picture it's impossible to tell through the lampshade which is which. All of the LED bulbs I have looked at seem to use a ceramic heatsink type of structure at the base. It is warmer than the bulb itself after several hours of operation.

Rob W1AEX


* LED Package.jpg (152.32 KB, 326x480 - viewed 596 times.)

* 40w INC vs 40w LED.jpg (157.86 KB, 523x480 - viewed 622 times.)

* LED through lampshade.jpg (124.45 KB, 377x480 - viewed 630 times.)
Logged

One thing I'm certain of is that there is too much certainty in the world.
W1VD
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 401



« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2011, 08:24:57 AM »

I run a mix of incandescent and LEDs throughout the house and lab - no CFLs  due to ELF, VLF and LF operations.

Been using this LED flood outdoors (mounted under a roof overhang) for about six months with excellent results. It replaced an 85 watt halogen flood that replaced a 100 watt incandescent. This LED is brighter than either of those and provides a wide field of light at just 18 watts.

Unfortunately, I've only seen it in one particular Home Depot store ... and in that store the spot on the shelf is usually bare. It's a bit unusual looking compared to most other floods with it's full rounded front 'diffuser'. At about $34 they aren't cheap but if you run one all night (like I do) it's noticeable on the electric bill.

Packaged by Ecosmart. Model # BR40, Registration number R31N-P3VHTS.

Info on bulb: ECS BR40 W27 120, 120VAC 60 Hz, 200 mA 18W 1211, E320663

Would be interesting to hear from others about their LED experiences.

   


* LEDflood1.jpg (44.12 KB, 500x505 - viewed 572 times.)

* LEDflood2.jpg (25.62 KB, 500x423 - viewed 581 times.)
Logged

'Tnx Fer the Dope OM'.
W2PFY
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13312



« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2011, 10:09:56 AM »

I wonder what the incandescent light bulbs will be listed as on eBay? Remember they will not allow a CB linear to be listed as an 11 meter amp but if you say it's a ten meter amp, it's allowed. I think they will always be a supply of old fashion bulbs around.

I can see it now, a guy sitting in a Federal prison with murders, rapist, bank robbers, err what are you in here for says one inmate to the new guy, selling light bulbs Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh 
Logged

The secrecy of my job prevents me from knowing what I am doing.
W3SLK
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2651

Just another member member.


« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2011, 10:48:46 AM »

We were using blue LED lamps to indicate our safety showers. They were guaranteed to last 10 years. They didn't make it past 6 months. We went back to using blue patio lamps.
Logged

Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
John Holotko
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2132



« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2011, 11:30:24 AM »

I don't like the government dictating to me what kind of bulbs I can use in my light fixtures. This is a free country?

One thing that a lot of people seem to be missing about the CFL bulbs is that they are a dangerous fire hazard. The ballast is a circuit board about the size of a quarter. It is mounted inside the plastic base. As the arc tube ages, the ballast draws more current and generates more heat. When the bulb fails, the ballast may get hot enough to set the plastic base on fire. The Chicoms, notorious for cost cutting and poor quality control, do not include a thermal fuse in the bulb base. Overheating of the ballast can also result from using a CFL in a fixture connected to a dimmer switch. NEVER use these bulbs with dimmers unless they are specifically manufactured as dimmable CFLs.

Incandescent bulbs do not contain any hazardous or toxic chemicals. CFLs contain mercury. (The phosphor is usually non-toxic, as beryllium compounds have not been used in fluorescent lamp phosphor since 1949.) LEDs contain arsenic. The semiconducting compounds used in such diodes are usually arsenides of gallium and related elements.

I have experienced this problem more than once.  One night a CFL in a standard bedroom lamp (with flammable shade) started to flicker and go dim. Then it flickers and blinked a few times and went out.  As I approached the lamp I noticed a distinct burning odor, and, much to my dismay I noticed that the base of the bulb was so hot that in spots it was glowing red.  I removed the shade and I watched it for a minute, fire extinguisher handy, just to see how far this thing would go.  It continued to smoke and glow for another 30 seconds or so and then it went dead. Fortunately it didn't actually flame.

The dang base of the bulb was more than hot enough to melt solder. It took about ten minutes for the base to cool down to the point where I could touch it and unscrew it from the fixture. Upon  examining it closely I noticed the plastic base was heavily discolored and had melted clear through in a couple of spots.

A lot of people think that the plastic is supposed to be "flame resistant" but I wouldn't count on it. Especially with some of the ultra cheap-o Chinese imports.  I was reading an article from the NFPA about tests that have been done by various fire departments and fire investigators on many different common household electrical devices (i.e. heaters, toasters, fans, lamps, wall thermostats, coffee makers, etc, that are made from plastic.  In almost all cases the plastic was not "flame proof" or "fire resistant" as most people tend to believe.. Once ignition began, even from a few tiny sparks or overheated components the plastic continued to melt and burn furiously , often dripping flaming molten plastic onto other flammable objects, i.e. sofa's, rugs, beds, wood flooring, etc. They might as well have been made from napalm.

At some future date I'd like to run some of my own flammability tests on some burned out CFL's.
Logged

N2IZE<br /><br />Because infinity comes in different sizes.
The Slab Bacon
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3934



« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2011, 12:32:37 PM »

they are good in automotive "droplights" as they will take the bumps and drops much better than conventional filamentary bulbs. some of the cheapo incandescents will only take one bump without going out. (a real genuine pain in the ass when you are under a car) The CFLs are great for that, but....................

We have converted all of our lights in the house to CFLs and noticed a noticable savings in our electric bill. (It does help offset the cost of running our A/C).
BUT, I HAVE YET TO SEE ONE OF THOSE POSs LAST ANY LENGTH OF TIME! ! ! ! !
We are always replacing them, sometimes they only last a few months at best.
I believe the cheapo incandescents will outlast them in standard lamp or cieling light service.

We have started returning them to the stores and bitching about it, and the stores will usually replace them with little or no argument. (the war dept may be little, but she can be very feisty when pissed off) Maybe the stores know something that we dont!
Logged

"No is not an answer and failure is not an option!"
k4kyv
Contributing Member
Don
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 10057



« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2011, 12:54:33 PM »

I had a similar experience with LED flashlights.  I went through three of them, and not a single one lasted through more than the second battery change. Most crapped out before the first set of batteries went dead.  First one LED gets dim, then goes out, then another, then another.  I threw them away at that point. After the  same experience multiple times, went back to incandescent.
Logged

Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

- - -
This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
W3GMS
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3063



« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2011, 12:56:57 PM »

I have also heard that they can be very nasty when they die.  Another Ham friend had one go bad and he was glad he was home when the thing bit the dust.  

In my past life, my engineering group in addition to power design work, was also responsible for getting safety and regulatory approval on all of our products that we developed.  UL was very tuff in the examination process and they dug very deep.  We had to list all the materials used in the product which included flammability data.  We also were required to go in and force certain critical faults and see how the product reacted to those faults.  We called that "abnormal fault testing"  So its a bit surprising that the CFL bulbs exhibit the characteristics they do under fault conditions.  The products we developed were very large Enterprise Servers.  In many cases the testing on consumer products was even more extensive.  The same was true with EMI-EMC-ESD along with susceptibility testing.  A long and grueling cycle.  I left the industry in 2008 so it was not that long ago.  

Joe, W3GMS          
Logged

Simplicity is the Elegance of Design---W3GMS
The Slab Bacon
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3934



« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2011, 01:10:12 PM »

Joe,
      We have done similar stuff here, we built and marketed an electric lock controller for a door product we were selling at the time. It was nothing more than a "brute force" 24vdc power supply and 2 relays on a pc board. It was a real pain to get it approved. We had to do all of the same stuff as well as "test to destruction"
What a pain in the you know what!!

Then some years back when no one else was mfring them yet we designed "blast resistant" windows to meet antiterrorist specs. We had to perform days of testing in the presence of PEs. The ultimate end was "test to destruction" after they met and exceeded the current specs of that time.

So the bottom line is: How do they get away with mfring and marketing all of the sub standard consumer electronic stuff that is on the market today? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Logged

"No is not an answer and failure is not an option!"
KB2WIG
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4484



« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2011, 01:19:34 PM »

"  So the bottom line is: How do they get away with mfring and marketing all of the sub standard consumer electronic stuff that is on the market today? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? "

Simple. You followed the rules and 'they' did not.

klc
Logged

What? Me worry?
Jim, W5JO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2506


« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2011, 02:34:51 PM »

I have also heard that they can be very nasty when they die.  Another Ham friend had one go bad and he was glad he was home when the thing bit the dust.  

In my past life, my engineering group in addition to power design work, was also responsible for getting safety and regulatory approval on all of our products that we developed.  UL was very tuff in the examination process and they dug very deep.         

I haven't seen the UL seal on any of the CFL bulbs.  Did I miss it or is it absent?
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands
 AMfone © 2001-2015
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.108 seconds with 18 queries.