EBAY Melt Down In Progress

[AB3L]

In response to Ebays announcement of new fee's the masses are going ballistic. They will now also be charging you their final fee which will be based the total sale INCLUDING your shipping fee. There is a call for a "no listing day" to show em a lesson. Here is a link to their discussion board the later pages showing the  most responses. By the time you get a heavy item out the door the seller will be losing money unless they put a higher shipping fee on top to cover the Ebay fee. Counter productive to trying to keep shipping rates lower for the buyer.

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/2011-Spring-Seller/Fee-Update-Questions/510316234&start=3315

[K6JEK]

They were getting scammed.  Ever buy anything for $.01 with $12.00 shipping?  I have.  The actual shipping was a buck and a quarter. The price and shipping charges were obviously set to screw eBay out of their cut.

It would have been clever of them to change the policy but lower the overall fees so regular sellers, ones that charge actual shipping not phony shipping got lower charges.  I infer that they didn't do that.

[WQ9E]

I ran across a guy last week selling $4 radio dial repro clocks with a $50 shipping charge, I can understand ebay trying to protect their bottom line by going after these folks who try to avoid paying ebay fees on the effective product price.  But it sounds like they are using a meat axe to kill the spider and there is going to be a lot of collateral damage.  I have purchased a number of tubes from Russia and several of the former aligned republics; charging "royalties" on all shipping is going to be a problem for buyers and sellers of these high shipping cost auctions.

Conducting random audits and charging the seller treble "damages" based upon blatant shipping overages would probably be a better approach.  That would put enough fear into most sellers to avoid that practice.

[steve_qix]

I don't blame Ebay at all.  There are SO many false ads showing electronic parts for $1.00 with $3.00 shipping PER PART.  I have contacted many such sellers - I ask will you combine shipping (so I only pay the $3.00 once or some larger amount, but only once).  NO is always the answer.

Ebay was definitely being scammed !   I'm actually surprised it took this long to finally crack down.  I'll be glad to see real prices and not these stupid and dishonest prices for "shipping" attached to a cheaply priced item.

Seems like a better way to go!

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

They will now also be charging you their final fee which will be based the total sale INCLUDING your shipping fee.

The problem is, ebay is already doing this through paypal. When a buyer pays you via paypal, as required now by ebay, paypal takes their hefty cut of the total paid, including the shipping. Ebay is pretending to give people something (free listing fee which is usually a couple bucks) and let them use the Buy it Now feature free instead of for an additional fee, but most folks don't use it anyway. It's a case of we're going to give you a dime and take a dollar.

This is a crisis of ebay's own making. ebay is losing sales, and like so many states and municipalities, they're looking for new ways to get more money out of the decreasing numbers paying the bills. They'd do well to have a simple flat percentage fee for a sale and leave it at that. Check out their formula for figuring fees sometime. Ebay has always set the rules to suit themselves, and the more they try to find ways to squeeze fees out of the sellers, the more ways around it the sellers find. I mean - ebay has an entry for sellers to include a "handling fee", so how concerned can they really be?

I've got a few more high end audio tubes to shove out the door before they change the rates, then it's back to buying only. Already do most of my selling at 'fests or privately. I'll vote with my feet and wallet. I don't need ebay or anyone else's help in thinking for myself. Just don't tell my wife.  

[KF1Z]

You guys missed the most important part!

Not only ebay losing their cut....

BUT,
What if you bought a...oh..  whatever..  lets say a VOM.

The sale price was $10. the shipping is $15.
The seller's listing says you can return the item for a refund (LESS THE SHIPPING CHARGES.)
, for any reason within 14 days.

So, you want to return it.
You pay to ship it back to the seller, maybe costs $5.
You get $10 refund from the seller!

You loose $20 !
The seller keeps around $10 of the high shipping cost he charged.


So, don't think they are just trying to screw ebay... their out for YOUR $ too!

---------------------------------------
Twice I was able to reason with the seller that the item didn't work, and that not only I wanted a FULL refund, HE was going to pay me the cost of shipping it back.
After all, it wasn't MY fault they sold me a non-working item!

[Opcom]

eBay's attitude towards, total control over and profiteering on, every aspect of the sale is distasteful to me as a 'seller'.

1.) seller is forced to accept paypal - my cost 5% on average due to fees and time spent managing a separate account.
2.) fees seem to be charged on amounts upon which fees have already been added.

Now this fee upon shipping. I have not sold in a long time so have missed this and other up-charges. I suppose the seller is now forced to quote a shipping fee through eBay in order to make that new scheme work for them?

I do not care what others think about my requirement to be paid by check. It keeps my cost down. If I incur cost for accepting a payment, I have to pass it to the buyer. I'm not paying it. If a potential buyer does not like to send a check, then they may have to look elsewhere for the item. I have no problem at all with missing a sale due to that. Assuming the buyer can elsewhere find what oddity of the week I am selling; not usually the case.

No one wins with the jacked up fees and forced costly payment schemes except eBay because the buyer now has to pay a bit more or the seller has to eat it. It's like two people suing each other. the lawyer is the one who gets rich.

These things may be tolerable for those with a warehouse of stuff and making their living off eBay sales, but they really cut the profit out of it and consume a lot of time for small sellers who do it for fun and beer money - and the small sellers are the ones with the most unique items.

Was their old policy so unprofitable for them? Freedom to do commerce as we wish. No paypal requirement, no automatic upgrade to 'business' status once a meager monthly threshold was crossed (oh yes an additional fee if you do well), No demand to link said acct to your bank, and sellers were able to rat out undesirable buyers. Freedom to do business on a two way street.

Look at the bright side - they may be running out of things to charge for. Next maybe they will demand image hosting through their servers and charge by the pixel multiplied by its depth in bits.

enough of a rant. I'm disappointed in how eBay has evolved over the years.

[flintstone mop]

I have had bad surprises with eBay also when selling. They apparently are taking a percentage of your final sold price as an additional fee. Selling some items are a breeze. You key in a model number or description and many times eBay will have the picture and the commercial blurb about the item you want to sell. All I have left to do is set up the price and how to handle payment and shipping. If it's under 4lbs I offer free shipping.

I have mixed feelings about eBay. If I need stuff, electronic,microwave turntable dish,digital goodies, whatever, I'll look locally first; then Amazon and then eBay. And usually end up at eBay. I never buy the junk from Hong Kong or the ones with $2.00 price and higher shipping.
There are many more listings now with free shipping.

[steve_qix]

I don't do a lot of selling.  Are there alternatives (other than Craig's list, which I know about) ?  If so many people are disappointed in Ebay, one would think an alternative auction site would pop up and become as popular as Ebay immediately.

My brother doesn't use Ebay because they don't allow guns.  I don't know if he uses anything else, however.

[Blaine N1GTU]

bring your stuff to a hamfest instead, maybe they would once again be worth going to

[AB3L]

If so many people are disappointed in I don't do a lot of selling.  Are there alternatives (other than Craig's list, which I know about) ? 

Someone in the rant mentioned Ebid. Anybody been there?

http://us.ebid.net/

[K5UJ]

I've never sold anything on eBay but I agree that the shipping charge scam is also a buyer problem.  I have learned to always check the shipping charge before bidding.  There have been many times I have passed on something because an exorbitant shipping charge makes an okay deal too costly.  I remember a few where the shipping was USPS (like a flat-rate box) but they wanted three times what I knew it would cost.   I also don't like eBay because among other things, they seem to make it pretty hard to pay with anything other than PayPal, and the hassle you about using a credit card with PayPal, probably because they have to pay the credit card transaction fee.  Oh, they want you to pay with cash by handing over a bank account to them, something they call "Verification."  I am getting these emails every time I buy something with PayPal telling me I'm about to hit some spending limit and I have to be verified to keep using it.  I'll just quit using eBay before I give PayPal a bank account with cash in it to use. 

The problem with Craig's List is for some idiotic reason, the people who run it make it impossible to do a single national search for something.  There are these other web sites that claim to help you with a national search, but they are funky and hard to understand the results,  and I question their accuracy and how up-to-date they are. 

It's not auctions but we have alternatives like the "antique" section of QTH.com, and our own "For Sale" section here.  KC3OL has an often overlooked forum site with a for sale section too.

[KF1Z]

"For the vast majority of eBay sellers—especially those already offering free or low-cost shipping, these updates mean overall fees will be reduced or stay about the same".


So what's the problem?

[WBear2GCR]

In other words, for the pros... it's ok.

Little guys who have to actually pack and weigh and then figure out the shipping, or on a heavy item will have more overheads??

Otoh, I try to buy commercial stuff that is sold with free shipping so that if it has to be returned or something goes south I get all my money back (either from the seller, ebay or paypal).

Otoh, eBay is a cash cow, so they have become stupid and corporate forgetting that they are making billion$ of dollars for doing next to nothing... they could afford to simplify it and not try to "GROW" their bottom line all the time...

Too bad they alone got big and there is/was no viable competition...

                          _-_-bear

PS. I can't complain about eBay too much, even with the bad deals that go south, because where else would I get things like a pack of 36 3000mah NiMh AA batteries at less than $1 per battery??

[W9GT]

My use of eBay decreased considerably when they started insisting on use of PayPal to pay for purchases.  Why should I be forced to use a credit card or have money in an account in their system?  What's wrong with a personal transaction between the buyer and seller utilizing a postal m.o. or check? 

IMHO, they have become far too greedy and have spoiled it for everyone.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I'll be glad to see real prices and not these stupid and dishonest prices for "shipping" attached to a cheaply priced item.

Seems like a better way to go!

I don't believe the sellers with the crazy shipping fees are being greatly rewarded for it(compared to what they could sell with a reasonable shipping fee), but let's make all sellers pay more. Profit is a dirty word, after all. Let's get rid of that Free Market crap right now. More regulation is the answer.

It's a bit interesting to see how ebay seems to track pretty well with what's going on in society overall. No doubt the current conditions could have as much to do with sales as their continued messing with fees. Sales are down, they think they need to stimulate the situation. The just make it worse by mucking with it more. Some would like to see fewer fees(less regulation) which I think would get more folks selling, others want to see ebay exercise more control over the greedy sellers so that it benefits them when they buy. I mainly buy on there too, BTW, and exercise my right not to buy if I don't like the cost. It's served me well since starting there in the 90s.

bring your stuff to a hamfest instead, maybe they would once again be worth going to

From the folks I've talked to at NEAR-Fest, Shelby, Timonium and elsewhere Blaine, this is exactly what's been happening the last few years. More folks deciding that the hamfest is easier than online selling and its promise of a few more dollars. It's a whole lot easier on the shipping front, too. After selling a few large items online and spending hours packing them properly, it just didn't make sense. My time is worth more to me each day, so easier is better and less is more, in this case. I only sell small stuff online now that can easily be packed in a Priority Mail box, flat rate or otherwise. The chances of getting $1500 for a set of 845s at a hamfest are pretty slim though, so the trade off in fees makes sense for some items where the worldwide audience drives the price.  

Ebay should be a tool, nothing more. Too many choose to see it as the be all/end all solution to convenient online shopping. Convenience comes at a cost. And ebay wants more of the profit, simple as that. Just like in 'real life', the sellers will pass that on to you. Ebay doesn't really care. Otherwise, why would they allow sellers to charge a handling fee on top of a shipping fee? It's one more way for the seller to recover some of their cost of doing business or to gouge a buyer, which ebay seems to recognize. Now it will be one more thing that adds to the percentage they gain in fees. So, who's scamming who here?

Years ago someone coined the phrase "Blow up your TV" to get people to be less fixated and re-engaged in life. Maybe now we need to change 'TV' to 'Computer' so people won't feel so helpless and victimized by their own choices?

[kg8lb]

 No gripes with Ebay or Paypal from me. I was always suspicious of sellers who refused to accept Paypal. Ebay has made finding parts that were once hard to find quite easy. It has also made finding willing buyers for some gear.
 Paypal has come across when sellers would not. There have been a few rough spots but all in all a lot better than the "Oh sure it works" hamfest assurances or some of the stuff from the old "Yellow Sheets" ads.
  Bought a pair of great motorcycles on eBay that would have been real hard to find by the old methods.
Ebay selling prices are often far less than the asking prices on places like QTH, although I also regard QTH as a fine resource. The deals are where you find them. Ebay/Paypal are just another resource.

[K1JJ]

Like any major corporation, the execs hold loads of vested and unvested stock and mucho stock options that are usually given to them every year as "perfomance incentives."  Their value is based on stock performance. The shareholders demand results. Whatever the market will legally bear without too much screaming to increase profits is the name of the game. That's the bottom line.



BackGround Info -  EBAY Earnings and Stock Price Charts:

They made $2 billion income on $9 billion in sales  last year.

Next quarter projected earnings: 50 cents per share. (Big Drop)     Future forecasts now project $1.50 then $2.00 share the next two years. Guess how they plan to do it?
 
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/analyst/earnest.asp?Symbol=EBAY



10 Year Price Chart:

They remember the good old gravy days at $60 per share.   The present price is $30/ share.  How are they going to double it and cash in their options?   Three guesses.....  

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?Symbol=EBAY&CP=0&PT=10


Personally, as an occassional  buyer,  I will continue to use eBay as usual. Until something better comes along to beat them up, they are still a quick and efficient way to buy stuff.  However, it IS a pity how hamfest offerings have suffered as a result of the web in general. But these are the doings and choices of the market participants.

T

[Carl WA1KPD]

I am helping my parents move out of their home of 50 years. My Dad has a bunch of "Fling Aces" magazines from the 30's that we bundled together and listed. Since I was using the magazine section eBay would not let me list shipping of more than $5.00. The flat rate box is about $11.00. Only choice was to up the minimum to cover shipping.

[K6JEK]

...
However, it IS a pity how hamfest offerings have suffered as a result of the web in general. But these are the doings and choices of the market participants.

I was talking to a seller at the De Anza hamfest last weekend. He had tons of stuff, Nationals, Johnsons, Hammarlunds, Hallicrafters, Collins, etc., but a lot of it was pretty rough, rusty, dirty, bent, corroded.  "This is nothing.  I have ten times this back at my shop. But I don't bring it to hamfests because people here want to get it for nothing. I only bring the beat up stuff.  The rest I sell on eBay."

He's right, of course.  We expect to get an SP-600 in excellent shape for $80 at a hamfest when it goes for $400 on eBay.  No wonder hamfests are suffering.

[W2PFY]

The state of NY uses ebay to sell surplus. They do not except PayPal.

When I sell stuff I list it as a flat rate and put the freight costs in the text of the sale. I have never had a problem getting my freight costs this way.

http://shop.ebay.com/nyssurplus-albany/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25

[w1vtp]

<snip>

Personally, as an occassional  buyer,  I will continue to use eBay as usual. Until something better comes along to beat them up, they are still a quick and efficient way to buy stuff.  However, it IS a pity how hamfest offerings have suffered as a result of the web in general. But these are the doings and choices of the market participants.

T

Yup, me too.  Just got a National SW-54 pretty reasonable, nice shape. Got a lot of stuff over the years.  Works for me - like a comfortable old shoe

al

[k4kyv]

The problem I have selling on line or via classified ads, is packing the stuff for shipping.  The boxes and  packing material are not cheap and packing something properly so that the gorillas might not destroy it is a lot of work.  And there is still no guarantee that it will not arrive in demolished condition.

At a hamfest you just exchange money for the item and the buyer walks off the piece in exactly the same condition as the seller released it.

I have loads of stuff I would love to pawn off, but I don't feel like doing all the work packing it and then lugging it to Fedups or the P.O.  The problem with hamfests is that I like to buy stuff and don't want to be tied down all day to a vendor space.

[steve_qix]

I'll be glad to see real prices and not these stupid and dishonest prices for "shipping" attached to a cheaply priced item.

Seems like a better way to go!

I don't believe the sellers with the crazy shipping fees are being greatly rewarded for it(compared to what they could sell with a reasonable shipping fee), but let's make all sellers pay more. Profit is a dirty word, after all. Let's get rid of that Free Market crap right now. More regulation is the answer.

Profit is not a dirty word.  "All" sellers may be paying VERY SLIGHTLY more, since shipping is SUPPOSED to be a SMALL part of the overall cost.  This increase rewards good sellers (like the ones who include the shipping as "free" shipping because they won't see an increase) and makes the scammers with the expensive shipping pay the commission they actually should pay.

I would much rather see this, than an across the board percentage or listing fee increase.  Such a move WOULD hurt everyone, and the scammers with the expensive "shipping" would still have every reason to continue (in fact, they are rewarded for such behaviour) and the honest folks would pay more.

From what I can see, this move actually does not hurt the "good" guys at all (or very, very little).  As a seller, I wound't be bothered by this at all.

If someone can present a logical, non-emotional agrument in favor of not charging a commission on "shipping" and doing an across the board increase instead, I'd sure like to hear it!!

Regards,

Steve

[K1JJ]

The problem I have selling on line or via classified ads, is packing the stuff for shipping.  

Don,

There is a solution.  Normally, I am more than happy to package up a piece of gear myself for a ham friend and ship it out.  But when it comes to selling on eBay, I get lazy.

Back 5 years ago I cleaned out the cellar and sold about 60 ham items netting about $6K on eBay. Some of the stuff was big and heavy and I didn't want to deal with it shipping-wise.

In all of my eBay ads I stated that I would bring the piece to UPS and UPS would use their own boxes and materials to box it up. I simply brought the stuff in and supplied the name and addresses.  The cost was agreed to be passed on to the buyer.  I didn't have a single complaint. Some of the gear was double boxed which was extra.

The only problem I had was when I sold some very HEAVY bullet loading machines with lead bullets. It weighed about 80 pounds and tore the box in half.  UPS didn't even balk and paid the guy 50% of the value AND sent him the original undamaged stuff.  There were some missing lead bullets - minor. The guy was happy as heck.

So, bottom line, if someone wants your stuff bad enuff, they will usually agree to pay extra to have it boxed and shipped. What can they say... "NO!  I want YOU to box it?"    State it clearly in the ad: "Professionally boxed by UPS."  If there is ANY claim damage, UPS must pay - and do, quickly.

T