Earthquake/Tsunami/Nuclear Disaster

[K1JJ]

Timing is everything.  Imagine how different the world would be to-day if this thing had blown in 1939 instead of 2011 - and how many more Japanese civilians would have still been alive in 1945.

Yes, certainly history would have been different, though they were already well on their way by 1939. Once a war machine is assembled, little can stop it, even an earthquake.  The Pacific war may have been delayed somewhat, but would have taken place regardless.  Those northern areas were less developed with smaller poulations back then too.

In ten years, satellite photos will show those areas as vibrant as before, but with newer and better technology. The only thing that can't be replaced is the lives lost which may number in the 10's of thousands they are now saying.

T

[Steve - K4HX]

First you say it's the free market, then you say it isn't (gov subsidies). Which is it?

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Selective data acquisition - the act of selectively choosing your data to support your position and rejecting, ignoring, or devaluing other data that compromises your argument. Complicated by the fact that no one individual can have all the data available or be completely unbiased in their outlook.

[K4TLJ]

Not really. Nothing that regulated is a free market.

The only way to build new nuclear power plants is through heavy federal
subsidy (of the same sort that built the existing nukes). That's a corruption
of the free market (which has spoken on this issue for decades now).

Georgia Power is building two new nuclear power plants and AFAIK there are no federal dollars involved. They are assessing each customer a surcharge starting this January to pay for them.

[KD6VXI]

The Japanese really are a wonderful people and have a culture that emphacizes family, honor and respect. I hope five years from now this terrible event is just a faint memory.

Timing is everything.  Imagine how different the world would be to-day if this thing had blown in 1939 instead of 2011 - and how many more Japanese civilians would have still been alive in 1945.

But regardless of the outcome, I'm glad I don't have all my life savings invested in stock in the nuclear power industry.

I'd feel sorry for ANYONE in .ja in the 1940s had they risen above the tyranny of their government.

The fact that they all sat there while their "emporer" ran around the world killing people makes each and every one of those pieces of sh1t complaisant in my mind.  ie, if you aren't part of the solution, you ARE the problem.

I agree with the observations on the nuke-lee-yar industry, though.  I'd HATE to have my trust tied up with them... Just as much as I enjoyed losing 230K dollars in a weekend in EnRon.

--Shane
KD6VXI

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Actually, the containment vessels in the JA reactors are working exceptionally well. Consider that they have been subjected to not one but two major catastrophic events, first - a 9.0 earthquake, followed by a huge Tsunami. Singularly those events would destroy most any other industrial installations, the fact that the plants are still contained and are being shut down speaks volumes for the design and the operations personnel.

[KC2ZFA]

Georgia Power is building two new nuclear power plants and AFAIK there are no federal dollars involved. They are assessing each customer a surcharge starting this January to pay for them.

that's not accurate: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Georgia_Power_accepts_Vogtle_loan_guarantee-2106107.html

[KC2ZFA]

First you say it's the free market, then you say it isn't (gov subsidies). Which is it?

it's simple: investors (a.k.a. the free market) have decided on their own accord
that nuclear power is a federally subsidized and regulated industry they're not
interested in. At the same time, these same investors regularly invest in other
(federally subsidized and regulated) industries.

[Steve - K4HX]

It's not that simple. All the power industry is regulated. Every state has a public utility commission. Many other industries are regulated and/or subsidized. Some get investment and some don't or get less. You have not explained why this is so.

Bottom line, this is a far more complex issue that you claim it is.

[K4TLJ]

Georgia Power is building two new nuclear power plants and AFAIK there are no federal dollars involved. They are assessing each customer a surcharge starting this January to pay for them.

that's not accurate: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Georgia_Power_accepts_Vogtle_loan_guarantee-2106107.html

From the referenced article....

DoE loan guarantees have been offered in various areas as well as nuclear to encourage the commercial use of new or significantly improved energy technologies. The federally-backed guarantees are intended to help would-be builders to raise private finance at no cost to the taxpayer; indeed the recipients are charged a fee for the guarantee. Applications from nuclear energy projects were lodged in 2008, with a fee of $200,000 for the first part and $600,000 for the second part. The DoE received 19 initial applications from 17 utilities to support the construction of 14 nuclear power plants involving 21 new reactors of five different designs, plus two applications for enrichment plants. Earlier this year an extra $36 billion in guarantees was added to the $18.5 billion initially announced in 2005 for nuclear power plants and the $2 billion made available to fuel cycle facilities. Areva Enrichment Services was granted a $2 billion loan guarantee for its Eagle Rock enrichment facility in May.

[W2ZE]

There is also a huge difference between a federal load guarantee, and a federal subsidy. A federal loan guarantee does not come at the expense of the taxpayer. It is clearly stated in the article.

[WD8BIL]

A federal loan guarantee does not come at the expense of the taxpayer.

Not until/unless the borrower defaults.

[KC2ZFA]

It's not that simple. All the power industry is regulated. Every state has a public utility commission. Many other industries are regulated and/or subsidized. Some get investment and some don't or get less. You have not explained why this is so.

I agree. The free market speaks, and when it speaks negatively that means the industry it spoke about thusly is not worth even of government subsidy. The free
market, in this country, is the ultimate arbiter. How much of an explanation does
the "invisible hand" really need ? The invisible hand, in the case of nuclear
energy, has decided.

Bottom line, this is a far more complex issue that you claim it is.

please don't put words in my posts. The bottom line here is that in this
country no industry has withstood the real free-market test of viability
for the simple reason that this "real free-market" is a figment of some
people's imagination. Our economy has been, and will always be, a mix
of capitalism and socialism (a.k.a. government subsidy).

73 de Peter

[KC2ZFA]

Not until/unless the borrower defaults.

I've read that the the nuclear loan guarantees have a 50% risk of
default.

[W7TFO]

Does anyone know of any hams in the NE area of Japan?  Contact would be difficult when your QSA is gone...

73DG

[WD8BIL]

Does anyone know of any hams in the NE area of Japan?

Check with the 7290 No Traffic Traffic Net. I heard'em Sunday waiting for emergency traffic from the "tsunami" region!

[K1JJ]

Does anyone know of any hams in the NE area of Japan?

Check with the 7290 No Traffic Traffic Net. I heard'em Sunday waiting for emergency traffic from the "tsunami" region!

 
Bud,

Have you signed up for the IARN jump team yet?

T

[Sam KS2AM]

Interesting youtube video showing a composite view of 6 of the main TV channels reacting to the quake and the alerts that the public gets via television.

The one in the upper left looks like a live broadcast.   Shaking starts at about 1:30, it looks like they have the source of the earthquake mapped at about 1:40 and the tsunami warnings mapped around 3:30. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOrAwvJLKxo

It pays to watch television I suppose. 

[K6JEK]

IEEE Spectrum coverage is as good as any I've found.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/static/japans-earthquake-and-nuclear-emergency/?utm_source=techalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=031711

[flintstone mop]

Seems like things are heading toward a major problem at the Nuclear power station.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124500/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/

It doesn't sound too good over there

[WA3VJB]

It doesn't sound too good over there

I cannot imagine living through this list:

-- Earthquake

-- Tidal Wave

-- Food/fuel shortage

-- Homeless in freezing weather

-- Radiation

-- Cholera/dysentery/other refugee epidemics

[DMOD]

It appears Honshu had a 5.1 Mag earthquake about 11 hours ago.

Let's hope this is a precursor of things settling down, I.E., aftershock intensity is weakening.

http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/

It also appears Arkansas had a 2.3 Mag aboout 12 hours ago.

I am really suprised the New Madrid fault zone hasn't shown some rumbling:

http://www.scchealth.org/docs/ems/docs/prepare/newmadrid.html

Phil

[k4kyv]

Now, the US military says it is considering evacuating the largest naval base in Japan in order to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the area.

The situation with the power plant has completely overshadowed news about the earthquake and tsunami, and it just keeps getting worse.

Looking round the pacific rim, we have recently seen earthquakes in Chile and New Zealand, not to mention the one in Haiti which is not exactly on the pacific rim, but not that far away.  Now Japan.  The only corner of the rim that remains unaffected is at the San Andreas Fault on the west coast. I wouldn't be too comfortable right now if I lived in California.  These things tend to occur in clusters, usually at opposite sides of the tectonic plate involved.

[K1DEU]

Roger Don;

A good place not to reside is from Juneau, Alaska Through Seattle down to Los Angeles, San Francisco south to San Diego.

Meditate and time travel forward.

Don I used to listen to some guys on 75 meter AM who worked in the TV Cable business near Boston and they could never wait for Friday night to party early.

[K6JEK]

Now, the US military says it is considering evacuating the largest naval base in Japan in order to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the area.

The situation with the power plant has completely overshadowed news about the earthquake and tsunami, and it just keeps getting worse.

Looking round the pacific rim, we have recently seen earthquakes in Chile and New Zealand, not to mention the one in Haiti which is not exactly on the pacific rim, but not that far away.  Now Japan.  The only corner of the rim that remains unaffected is at the San Andreas Fault on the west coast. I wouldn't be too comfortable right now if I lived in California.  These things tend to occur in clusters, usually at opposite sides of the tectonic plate involved.

Around here folks are more worried about the Hayward fault than the San Andreas. These things aren't predictable but if there is such a thing as overdue, the Hayward fault is overdue. It runs right through the East Bay, Berkeley, Oakland, Hayward, Fremont. Then, of course there is the big fault up in Washington and countless faults in Southern California.