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Author Topic: For you gearheads and car guys out there................................  (Read 76455 times)
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W2VW
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« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2011, 04:32:25 AM »


Chevrolet made two versions of a 400, there is the 400 SBC and they also made a 402 based on the 396 CID series engine, IE big block design. The 400 SBC externally looks th same as a 350 or others in that series of engine, how ever the cylinders are siamesed together.

mike

The 402 came with a 2 barrel carbonator. 400 small block had a quadrajet.

Still not the largest small block..........
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2011, 09:00:23 AM »

IIRC the Hudsons used Continental "red seal" industrial engines, the same ones used on welders, forklifts, etc. But I could be wrong on this one.

Johnny,
          Many of the early multi cyl (V8s, V12s, and V16s) were not just for horsepower pecker matching. Dont forget that these were "Premium" cars, and they used the multiple cylinders to achive smoothness in the engine, so you would be less likely feel vibration when it was running.  The more cylinders, the closer the firing pulses, the closer the firing pulses, the less likely you are to feel them. Therefore less vibration in the car. Also keep in mind that back then they didnt have the technology to balence them anywhere close to what they have now.

Carl,
      I had never heard of Ford offering a supercharger back in the 30s, If you're right, you got me on that one.

In the way of interesting car engines, Chebby, when they were still an independant manufacturer, offered a couple of interesting engines back in the late teens and very early 20s. I have actually seen both. They had an in-line OHV air cooled 4 cyl, and an OHV V8 Both had open / exposed pushrods and rockers and were short lived but interesting design. You had to stop periodically and oil the valvetrain!!
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2011, 09:09:20 AM »

The 402 came with a 2 barrel carbonator. 400 small block had a quadrajet.
Still not the largest small block..........

Dave,
        You might have this backwards?? I pulled a 400SB out of a Kingswood Estate Wagon some years back. It had a 2BBL carb and was badged as a 400 on the car. A buddy of mine had an original 72 Monte Carlo with 400 badges on it as well. It was a 402BB with a Q-Jet.
Also 72 Camaros and Chevelles badged as 396s were actually 402s. In all of the years that I worked in the automotive trade, I dont remember ever seeing a 2bbl carb on a BB chevy maybe except for some of the 366s that were in big trucks, but I seem to remember them having Holley 4BBLs with governors.
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« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2011, 09:45:14 AM »

Dad bought a brand new '76 Caprice wagon with a 400 small block with quadrajet. Those engines are externally balanced BTW. Found that out when replacing engine with a 350 targetmaster.

I had a buddy with a low miles all original Chevelle with a 2 barrel 402. Maybe some of them came with 4 barrel carbs but I've seen several with 2 barrels and remembered looking them up in Motor's manual to find only a 2 barrel version. If it's a 4 barrel it's probably a 396.

The 402 came with a 2 barrel carbonator. 400 small block had a quadrajet.
Still not the largest small block..........

Dave,
        You might have this backwards?? I pulled a 400SB out of a Kingswood Estate Wagon some years back. It had a 2BBL carb and was badged as a 400 on the car. A buddy of mine had an original 72 Monte Carlo with 400 badges on it as well. It was a 402BB with a Q-Jet.
Also 72 Camaros and Chevelles badged as 396s were actually 402s. In all of the years that I worked in the automotive trade, I dont remember ever seeing a 2bbl carb on a BB chevy maybe except for some of the 366s that were in big trucks, but I seem to remember them having Holley 4BBLs with governors.
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KM1H
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« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2011, 09:49:11 AM »

The 39 Ford had a McCullough blower option with the Holley 2bbl sitting on top. A friend in Maine has one in his customized 40 Coupe (He built in around 59) with a 59A in it, he has over 120K on that car until he got too old to drive it on 1500 mile runs any longer. Ive seen a few others but they are real scarce; sorta the SX-88 of the Ford world Roll Eyes

http://www.goodguysclassifieds.com/classified/2294/McCulloch_Ford_Flathead_Supercharger.html

I ran a Roadrunner Weiand setup for about 10 years on a 276" 8BA in a 26T coupe on A rails. That fleaweight combo with a beefed C4 was real ballsy.
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KM1H
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« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2011, 10:03:10 AM »

The 402 was initially a simple way in 70 to save a run of miscast 396 blocks that got a .030 cut; 4.096 vs 4.126" Rather than retool they stuck with it until it was dropped after 72.

The 402 was in 70 and 71 models badged as a 396 and in 72 badged as a 402. Only 4bbls were on any BB at least thru 75. The 400 SB had both.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2011, 10:52:41 AM »

The 39 Ford had a McCullough blower option with the Holley 2bbl sitting on top. A friend in Maine has one in his customized 40 Coupe (He built in around 59) with a 59A in it, he has over 120K on that car until he got too old to drive it on 1500 mile runs any longer. Ive seen a few others but they are real scarce; sorta the SX-88 of the Ford world Roll Eyes

http://www.goodguysclassifieds.com/classified/2294/McCulloch_Ford_Flathead_Supercharger.html


I've seen those before!! Are you sure they were OEM?? Or were they an aftermarket add on??
Or maybe some sort of dealer installed option? Ford was pretty conservative back then.
I would be curious to know how much boost they could make. It probably wasn't much. 
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Fred k2dx
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« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2011, 12:47:23 PM »

I received this recently in an email:

          47 FORD TRUCK SELLS FOR $800,000.00
          These pictures show a 1947 ford 1/2 ton pickup truck from Whitby, Ontario, Canada that was just sold to FORD MOTOR COMPANY of Detroit Michigan USA for the sum of $800,000.00 plus a Ford F350 dually truck.
          This truck, according to Ford records, is one of only 35 that was ordered and built in 1947 with factory installed McCulloch water cooled supercharger, special carburetor, special very low profile air cleaner for the McCulloch due to hood height problem. When installed intake has lower carb mounting height 'special supercharger intake', (see above air cleaner) Edmunds finned aluminum heads, Fenton cast iron headers, factory dual exhaust.
          OTHER OPTIONS ORIGINALLY INSTALLED ON THE TRUCK sliding rear window, installed outside sun visor, vacuum powered dash fan, factory compass, ashtray, smokers kit, locking steering column, dome light, inside sun visors, fog lights bumper mounted, some form of factory cruise control with knob & wire in dash.
          This truck was started being restored by Dave Hill, Dave and his father Len purchased this truck from the farmer who was the ORIGINAL OWNER, who ordered it equipped as it is, new in 1947.
          Dave has added his own custom touches like the early luggage rack metal box in pickup bed rear, blue dot twin taillights and other details.  Metal covered spare tire cover.
          What makes this truck so rare and valuable???
          As one of ONLY 35 documented originally built, it may be the only remaining original numbers matching example that can be authenticated and was by a team of Ford museum employees before the offer and the purchase was made.  Apparently there 'might be' two other survivors that are in pieces and cannot or have not been authenticated.



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w3jn
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« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2011, 01:05:09 PM »


Johnny,
          Many of the early multi cyl (V8s, V12s, and V16s) were not just for horsepower pecker matching. Dont forget that these were "Premium" cars, and they used the multiple cylinders to achive smoothness in the engine, so you would be less likely feel vibration when it was running.  The more cylinders, the closer the firing pulses, the closer the firing pulses, the less likely you are to feel them. Therefore less vibration in the car. Also keep in mind that back then they didnt have the technology to balence them anywhere close to what they have now.
Certainly.  As well as the ability to drive around all day in third gear.  However there most certainly was a pecker matching contest, at least between manufacturers.  All the carriage makes needed a V-12 - Packard, Lincoln, Cadillac, Franklin, Auburn - then Cadillac and Marmon went and wrecked it all with V-16s  Grin

The Marmon V-16 has a sound like no other... factory dual smokestacks out the back and a real bark.  The Cad V-16 is smooth as silk, and the Packard V-12 is so silent you can't even tell it's running, except for a slight whisper of the fan cutting thru the air.

Ifn you really wanted a factory hotrod though, you laid down the cash for a Duesenberg SJ.


Quote
Carl,
      I had never heard of Ford offering a supercharger back in the 30s, If you're right, you got me on that one.

In the way of interesting car engines, Chebby, when they were still an independant manufacturer, offered a couple of interesting engines back in the late teens and very early 20s. I have actually seen both. They had an in-line OHV air cooled 4 cyl,

Yeah.  it sucked air up thru the bottom (with dust, rocks, straw, etc) and blew it out the front (against the wind).  Pisspoor design...  Franklin air cooled engines, OTOH, were superbly engineered.
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« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2011, 01:34:35 PM »

<snip> "Yeah.  it sucked air up thru the bottom (with dust, rocks, straw, etc) and blew it out the front (against the wind).  Pisspoor design..."<snip>

Agreed, but there were others that were worse. At least there are running survivors of them. Prolly one of the most hateful, non surviving thing there ever was was the
Willys Knight sleeve valve engine. If there are any survivors, they are very few and very far between.

I am first hand familiar with the air-cooled Franklin engine. they were a good running motor!! I almost owned one. A friend of mine (now SK) had a yard full of old equipment. He owed me a favor and wanted to give me this thing that he referred to as a 1919 "Nash Quad". It was a rather large FWD flatbead truck with a wooden "C" cab and a huge wooden boom and winch on the back. It was supposedly a WW1 tank retriever?? But it had a 6-cyl air-cooled Franklin engine in it.

I had no place to put something that large so I had to pass on it. But I did haul it out of the woods and get it to run for him. God only knew how long it had been sitting there. (it was there for the 25+ years previosly that I knew him) Ya know, it took surprizingly little work to bring it to life!! And it ran amazingly good!!
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« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2011, 01:45:53 PM »

Looking around the WWW confirms what you say. No 2 barrel 402. I know what I saw. Guess the guy had one of those adaptor plates on the thing. It was the late 70s when I saw this thing.

The 402 was initially a simple way in 70 to save a run of miscast 396 blocks that got a .030 cut; 4.096 vs 4.126" Rather than retool they stuck with it until it was dropped after 72.

The 402 was in 70 and 71 models badged as a 396 and in 72 badged as a 402. Only 4bbls were on any BB at least thru 75. The 400 SB had both.

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« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2011, 02:57:33 PM »

My brother had a 1940 ford pick up with a 327 & 4 speed. Oh I wish I bought it from him. I could have bought it for $1K in 1975.
One time we were going down RT91 at about 90 MPH Eyes were popping out of people as we went buy them.
We pulled off in Hartford to a lumber yard and a back wheel came off as we turned into the yard. Friggen unilug wheels almost killed both of us.
What a sight as the back wheel rolled by us.... then the back end dropped on the brake drum
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K0ARA
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« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2011, 04:14:23 PM »

A couple of the best sounding V-16s you will ever hear.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBKUQPjQ16I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvTggX3ADlY Cool
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Mike KØARA                99.9% AM
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« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2011, 05:18:18 PM »

Slab....Was that 6 cyl air cooled Franklin in the truck an inline or a flat 6???  I had a Stinson airplane with a flat 6 franklin...I think Franklin aircraft engines are still being made in Poland...
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2011, 08:08:10 PM »

Slab....Was that 6 cyl air cooled Franklin in the truck an inline or a flat 6???  I had a Stinson airplane with a flat 6 franklin...I think Franklin aircraft engines are still being made in Poland...

Steve,
         It was an automotive type engine, 6 cyl inline. Had a big squirrel cage fan on the front crank snout, cooling shrouds came up over the left (drivers) side of the engine and the carb and mnifolds were on the right side. IIRC it had an Eisman magneto and both hand crank and self starter. We cranked it by hand.  It kinda reminded you of a Wisconsin twin on steroids that grew 4 more cylinders.

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« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2011, 08:11:06 PM »

Here is another one for you guys up in the far northeast:

Any of you know what a Lunnenburg marine engine is?? and/or the really neat history behind it??
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K5WLF
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« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2011, 08:30:58 PM »

Just thought I'd mention, since we're in car and engine mode, that today is Carroll Shelby's 88th birthday. Happy Birthday to the man who brought us the Shelby Cobra and the Shelby Mustang.

ldb
K5WLF
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ke7trp
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« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2011, 08:36:32 PM »

Here is a 2.5 flat four Subaru with 540hp as measured at all four wheels with me driving and tuning it.  About 600hp at the crank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAVLEMbQYEo

ITs pretty common now to get 600 to 700 out of 4 cyls.

That BRM sounds so cool.  Kinda reminds me of my Friends modified Honda CBX.  Inline 6 cyl, open carbs and pipes.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCQdToPes6s&feature=related


C




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« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2011, 11:05:12 PM »

Lovely sounding WRX,those cars have pretty hardy blocks and as long as you keep your A/F ratio okay you can make very respectable power out of them. I'd love to put a GT series turbo on my car(Saab 9000)but they're a bit too dear cost wise.

The CBX to me always reminded me of a Porsche 911 in the sound department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmEqCcgXII
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ke7trp
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« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2011, 11:11:49 PM »

Yeah.. Thats true. I had a 914-6 years ago.  It had the 2.7 flat 6 with a rack of delorto carbs.  Sounded great!  Hated the AZ heat.. That car ran fine in Wacko land, I mean California.

Here are some pics of my Big Ole Ball bearing GT turbocharger on my Subaru.


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« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2011, 11:25:41 PM »

That is an exceptionally clean setup you have there. How are your intake temperatures with the air cleaner where it is? It's always a tough balance between running a cold air setup and risking water intake and running the intake in the engine compartment and dealing with heat. My Saab's stock setup takes its air from high up in the fender well and works well though I do want to analyze the system and see if there are any bottlenecks I can eliminate while still maintaining good water isolation.
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ke7trp
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« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2011, 11:30:17 PM »

Normaly, I dont run any intake or filter. Once I get over 28 psi and up into the 30 to 33 psi level, That intake starts to restrict flow.

  Its Just open turbo at the track.  The intake temps are fine. That big turbo is pretty effecient. I have a HUGE 3.5 inch thick front mount intercooler rated at 900 hp.  So any rise at the intake in turbo is just dumped into the intercooler. Not to mention that is a 4.5 inch intake so its nearly impossible to route that down to cool air. 

On a smaller turbo or setup like yours, It makes a big difference and cold air intake is suggested.  Figure 1% in power for every 10 degrees. However, The ecu typicaly pulls power back as intake temps rise.

To give you an idea, In the summer here its common to see 160F intake temps with a short ram intake like mine. But with a cold air you might get that down to 120.

C
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« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2011, 12:00:46 AM »

I run a T3/T4 trim 60 at around 18psi and the stock setup actually is a cold air setup. I just need to go through and replace some of the piping with smooth tubing and investigate the construction of the air box to see how efficient it is. So far I haven't run into any walls and my final goal is around 320-350hp because after that the transmission starts to complain more and more. Saab transmissions are sturdy until you start abusing them and then they break quickly but if you roll onto the power smoothly and don't dump the clutch at 5k for a launch they'll last for a long time.
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« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2011, 12:06:07 AM »

If you want some help, I would be happy to help. I have been designing, tuning and testing turbo systems like this for many many years.  Just email me sometime.

C
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« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2011, 10:18:53 AM »

why has this degraded to baby fart cars
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