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Author Topic: For you gearheads and car guys out there................................  (Read 76458 times)
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2011, 08:46:03 AM »

this goes to prove that AMers arent "one trick ponies"

I love old cars and engines as well as old radios. Looks like I'm not alone.

Mike,
       you missed one important point about the model "B"! It had a fuel pump!!
this meant that you didnt have to back it up steep hills to keep fuel flowing to the carb. The model A was gravity fed from the fuel tank in the cowl.

Dave,
       you were right about the Hemi. 331 CID came out 1951. But I'm surprised you missed who they were playing the numbers game with.....................
Your favorite brand Cadillac!! Seems that back then Chrysler and Cadillac were having a pecker matching contest??
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KL7OF
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2011, 09:18:17 AM »

The Funk Airplane Used the model "B" ford engine, upside down of course,because of its pressure fed mains.....The flying Funk......The Funk brothers also made adaptor kits to put the flathead ford 6 and flathead ford v8 in the 2N,9N,8N ford tractors......

This engine would have required crankshaft modifications to pressurize the rod throws as the original B engine, like the A engine is a splash system for the rod throws. I would be interested in any information confirming the fact these engines were run upside down....

mike
Yes....The original engines for the Funk Model B were "inverted and converted" by the Funk Bros of Coffeyville , Kansas...Google it up..there is lots of info...Most Funk airplanes were later converted to Continental and Lycoming air cooled engines in the 65 to 85 HP range...I have heard of one that had installed a GO-300 which is a geared crank Continental that produced 175 HP.!! I wonder how that worked??  I had the honor of knowing Daryl, "Arkie"W7NVB, an AMer in Spokane,WA. He owned a Funk with the original Ford B engine...I saw the plane many times at his T hanger at the Mead airport...I never got to fly the plane but I did see Daryl fly it... Arkie is a SK now but I have heard that his Funk and another model B are still flying around in the Spokane area..
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2011, 09:36:11 AM »

wanna see real power look up the tail pipe of an SR71. 100 foot flame 3 feet wide. Then there is the F119 motor burns a purple flame in AB.
We have jet motor pictures all over our area.
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W2VW
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2011, 09:39:08 AM »

My brain is bruised right now or I would have emembered that Caddy started the horsepower race.

this goes to prove that AMers arent "one trick ponies"

I love old cars and engines as well as old radios. Looks like I'm not alone.

A was gravity fed from the fuel tank in the cowl.

Dave,
       you were right about the Hemi. 331 CID came out 1951. But I'm surprised you missed who they were playing the numbers game with.....................
Your favorite brand Cadillac!! Seems that back then Chrysler and Cadillac were having a pecker matching contest??
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W2VW
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2011, 09:41:17 AM »

Here's one nobody can agree on:

What is the difference between a small block and big block V8?

Part II. Who made the largest displacement regular production small block?
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KL7OF
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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2011, 09:56:54 AM »

Here's one nobody can agree on:

What is the difference between a small block and big block V8?

Part II. Who made the largest displacement regular production small block?
Small block vs big block....Are we talking Chevys???
Part II...Chev produced a 400cid smallblock...Is that the largest displacement Huh
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2011, 10:09:21 AM »

all time coolest sounding piston motor is A B17 at idle on a cool damp morning
4 wasps belching fire
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KL7OF
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2011, 10:37:22 AM »

all time coolest sounding piston motor is A B17 at idle on a cool damp morning
4 wasps belching fire
Northern air cargo is still flying the DC-6 in cargo configuration in Alaska...They fly low on approach into King Salmon airport right over my place in Naknek...going low and slow..... 4 big radials chugging along...A great sound..I've been at the airport for a cold spring morning startup of the DC-6...lots of belching,farting,white smoke, and fire shooting out of the exhaust collectors before they all settle into a nice rumbling idle...I've seen these aircraft with an (over)load of fish take off from the gravel strip at Togiak...Tires bulging, gravel crunching and then the big roar of the 4 radials at max power as the tail of the plane is engulfed in the cloud of dust..
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 10:38:24 AM »

Here's one nobody can agree on:

What is the difference between a small block and big block V8?

Part II. Who made the largest displacement regular production small block?
Small block vs big block....Are we talking Chevys???
Part II...Chev produced a 400cid smallblock...Is that the largest displacement Huh


the difference between SB and BB is a relative thing. In order th have both, a MFR would have had to produce both. IE: If they only produced one casting it would be neither or both. (There was never such a thing as a SB Cadillac) or at least to my knowledge. They were 331, then 390, then 429, then 472 / 500, and back to 425CID, but they never produced more than one series at a time. (I may have missed one between 331 and 390??)

Chev 400 SB ascually neasured 402 CID (the same as the later 402 BB) The bore was speced as .001" less than the BB IIRC. I think those new LS series Chev "small blocks" are available up to something like 427CID or somewhere right in that area.

The Funk Airplane must have been an interesting debaccle, seeing that the crankshaft in the model "B" motor was NOT counterweighted!! I bet that was a vibrating MOFO!! Almost as strange as a Gnome. the inverted engine that I liked was a Ranger, they were pretty kool!

How many of you airplane buffs know what Gnome engine is!!  Grin  Grin
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Steve - K4HX
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 10:57:34 AM »

Nothing compared to a Saturn V.

wanna see real power look up the tail pipe of an SR71. 100 foot flame 3 feet wide. Then there is the F119 motor burns a purple flame in AB.
We have jet motor pictures all over our area.
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W2VW
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 11:01:46 AM »

Cadillac went down another bore step with the 472 all the way to 368.

They did have what could only be a small block. The HT-4100 wet sleeve V8 which lacked block strength without bolting it to a transaxle as used in RWD Cadillacs when the public still wanted them. 83-85. Most died a nasty death. Later same engine worked well with a little more metal in the right places.

Nope the 400 Chevy was not the largest small block.

Here's one nobody can agree on:

What is the difference between a small block and big block V8?

Part II. Who made the largest displacement regular production small block?
Small block vs big block....Are we talking Chevys???
Part II...Chev produced a 400cid smallblock...Is that the largest displacement Huh


the difference between SB and BB is a relative thing. In order th have both, a MFR would have had to produce both. IE: If they only produced one casting it would be neither or both. (There was never such a thing as a SB Cadillac) or at least to my knowledge. They were 331, then 390, then 429, then 472 / 500, and back to 425CID, but they never produced more than one series at a time. (I may have missed one between 331 and 390??)

Chev 400 SB ascually neasured 402 CID (the same as the later 402 BB) The bore was speced as .001" less than the BB IIRC. I think those new LS series Chev "small blocks" are available up to something like 427CID or somewhere right in that area.

The Funk Airplane must have been an interesting debaccle, seeing that the crankshaft in the model "B" motor was NOT counterweighted!! I bet that was a vibrating MOFO!! Almost as strange as a Gnome. the inverted engine that I liked was a Ranger, they were pretty kool!

How many of you airplane buffs know what Gnome engine is!!  Grin  Grin
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 11:21:51 AM »

Cadillac went down another bore step with the 472 all the way to 368.

They did have what could only be a small block. The HT-4100 wet sleeve V8 which lacked block strength without bolting it to a transaxle as used in RWD Cadillacs when the public still wanted them. 83-85. Most died a nasty death. Later same engine worked well with a little more metal in the right places.

Nope the 400 Chevy was not the largest small block.



ya lost me on this one, Dave?? Did they produce this engine concurrenty with the 425 or after it?? If they produced it after it, i dont know whether it would be considered a SB Caddy or just simply a Caddy engine Huh  Huh
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 12:01:33 PM »

Caddy debored the 425 all the way to 368 in 1980. The 8/6/4 modulated displacement was a 368 in 1981. 81 was the only year for the 8/6/4 in regular Cadillacs. They quietly used that engine all the way to /85 in some limos.

The HT-4100 4.1 liter came out in late 1982 and was the reason so many clean RWD Cadillac bodies were available for short money in the 80s. Twas fun dropping a 500 under the hood. They the car had exactly double the factory displacement and nobody could tell form the outside.

Ask VJB how well his ex cop car kept up with my 507 powered 83 Coupe Deville.

Cadillac went down another bore step with the 472 all the way to 368.

They did have what could only be a small block. The HT-4100 wet sleeve V8 which lacked block strength without bolting it to a transaxle as used in RWD Cadillacs when the public still wanted them. 83-85. Most died a nasty death. Later same engine worked well with a little more metal in the right places.

Nope the 400 Chevy was not the largest small block.



ya lost me on this one, Dave?? Did they produce this engine concurrenty with the 425 or after it?? If they produced it after it, i dont know whether it would be considered a SB Caddy or just simply a Caddy engine Huh  Huh
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 12:34:56 PM »

The most impressive part of a Satern 5 motor is the size of the fuel pipe feeding it, I saw a motor in its side at Edwards once. I figure it was about 8 inch ID.
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KL7OF
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 12:58:02 PM »

How many of you airplane buffs know what a Gnome is?

Is the Gnome engine a rotary...?  The crankshaft is fixed to the firewall and the cylinders rotate around the crank...The prop is attached to the rotating cylinder assembly....2 stroke using cod liver oil or ?? With so much rotating mass it was easy to turn left and almost impossible to turn right...especially with all that oil mist on your goggles...
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KL7OF
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2011, 01:01:06 PM »

Slab....I like the ranger engine...Inverted, air cooled.... I have seen a 6 cyl ranger that was disassembled..Beautiful inside with polished con rods and crank....The inside of the block was treated to a lot of polishing as well...I think they made a v 12 version too...
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K7LYF
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2011, 01:55:54 PM »

The Funk Airplane must have been an interesting debaccle, seeing that the crankshaft in the model "B" motor was NOT counterweighted!!

Not so, the original B engines were not counter weighted, how ever in late '32 or there abouts Ford made a running production change to a counter weighted crankshaft. Initially the counter weights were a style of sweated on and pinned counter weights, Ford then made a running change of forging the counter weights at the time of manufacture to the crankshaft.

Chevrolet made two versions of a 400, there is the 400 SBC and they also made a 402 based on the 396 CID series engine, IE big block design. The 400 SBC externally looks th same as a 350 or others in that series of engine, how ever the cylinders are siamesed together.

mike
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2011, 01:57:49 PM »

Steve,
          Kool that you would have known what a Gnome was!! What a strange engine!!  I guess you could consider it 2 cycle Huh  Huh What a Debaccle they were.
A radial engine with centrifugal scavenging. they would run 2200 rpm wide F'ing open!! (Imagine the vibraton) I saw a reproduction model of one at a show. It was about 12" in diameter and runnung!! The guy told me that it was scaled down from the original blueprint drawings. And wierd enough, the model would only run 2200RPM WFO go figger!! They also had one new in the crate in the hanger at the flying Circus's hanger down in Bealton Va. (for display only)

I have seen rangers in 50's vintage sprint cars. they are both kool and kool looking.
A beautiful piece of engineering. there is a guy who brings one to some of the antique engine shows around here mounted on a trailer. It also starts easily and runs well.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2011, 02:06:14 PM »

Not so, the original B engines were not counter weighted, how ever in late '32 or there abouts Ford made a running production change to a counter weighted crankshaft. Initially the counter weights were a style of sweated on and pinned counter weights, Ford then made a running change of forging the counter weights at the time of manufacture to the crankshaft.

Chevrolet made two versions of a 400, there is the 400 SBC and they also made a 402 based on the 396 CID series engine, IE big block design. The 400 SBC externally looks th same as a 350 or others in that series of engine, how ever the cylinders are siamesed together.
mike

Wow,
        thanks, Mike I never knew that!! You got me with that one!!

The 400 SB chev was much maligned in it's early days because of the siamesed cylinders.
I built a few of them for people. (They used to be cheap and plentiful.) It didnt take much to make them come alive!!


The most impressive part of a Satern 5 motor is the size of the fuel pipe feeding it, I saw a motor in its side at Edwards once. I figure it was about 8 inch ID.

Yowsa, yowsa can you say gallons to the mile!!
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KL7OF
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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2011, 03:21:35 PM »

Steve,
          Kool that you would have known what a Gnome was!! What a strange engine!!  I guess you could consider it 2 cycle Huh  Huh What a Debaccle they were.
A radial engine with centrifugal scavenging. they would run 2200 rpm wide F'ing open!! (Imagine the vibraton) I saw a reproduction model of one at a show. It was about 12" in diameter and runnung!! The guy told me that it was scaled down from the original blueprint drawings. And wierd enough, the model would only run 2200RPM WFO go figger!! They also had one new in the crate in the hanger at the flying Circus's hanger down in Bealton Va. (for display only)

I have seen rangers in 50's vintage sprint cars. they are both kool and kool looking.
A beautiful piece of engineering. there is a guy who brings one to some of the antique engine shows around here mounted on a trailer. It also starts easily and runs well.
Slab...There was (is?) a Fokker triplane at Silverwood theme park in Athol Idaho that had an original Gnome rotary engine...it was of course painted up like the Red Baron's...I saw it years ago before The little Athol airport became a theme park....I think they put a 145 Warner on that plane so they could fly it more...The Warner is a radial of about the same physical size and has more power.....You are correct in that the Gnome ran full bore all the time and the pilot has to cut the ignition to slow the engine down for landing...I believe they used Castor oil and not Cod liver oil like I said....
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2011, 03:33:49 PM »

Steve,
          I hope they kept the engine. At least for display!! I'm sure just about anything else would be an improvement over the Gnome!

Airplane and Marine engines took engine design science into new and uncharted waters. Some were very kool!! But you know, that was a lot of exotic machinery just to spin a big wooden fan !!
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2011, 04:56:47 PM »

gnome was like the tail wagging the dog
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2011, 09:28:58 PM »

gnome was like the tail wagging the dog

thatz about the best analogy I've heard for it!!   Grin  Grin
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2011, 10:02:34 PM »

Quote
My brain is bruised right now or I would have emembered that Caddy started the horsepower race.

Its still bruised Grin

If we leave out the Duesenberg, the Graham and Ford had a supercharger option in 39-40 and Buick had dual carbs available on both size engines in 41-42.

Postwar it was the 303 Olds Rocket that started the race, Caddy just had a few more inches but they announced after the Olds.

Things were relatively quiet until the 331 Hemi BUT the 308 Twin H Hudson Hornet whipped its ass (and everyone else) on the track and it was a flathead 6.

Then the Chrysler 300 changed everything for good. Caddy tried to impress the public with dual quads on the Eldorado but they didnt do anything else useful to the block and heads.

One of my favorites was the 58 Mercury Super Maruder option with a 430 MEL motor and 3 2bbl carbs. It had 400hp and 500Ft# of torque. I had a 58 Lincoln with the 375/490 version and that 5000Lb tank got up and went.....to the gas station.

Carl
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w3jn
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2011, 11:45:51 PM »

OK, Carl, I can still point to Cadillac starting the horsepower race in 1930 with the V-12 and V-16, causing Packard to bring out an updated "twin six" V-12 (which they discontinued in the early 20s), Marmon with a V-16, and I think Auburn, Pierce-Arrow, and a few others had V-12s.  Lincoln's pathetic little 280 or so cubic inch V-12 wasn't a contender here.  Except for the Lincoln V-12 that lasted thru '48, everyone else abandoned V-12s and V-16s by '41.

Of course these vehicles were for the carriage market, usually having custom-built bodies, and many times weren't owner-driven.  And it's doubtful that any were raced.  But it was certainly a "pecker matching" contest perhaps between captains of industry back in the 30s.

One of the reasons the Hudson Hornets were so successful was they handled and braked a lot better than the competition.  The Twin-H power flat 6 was powerful enough, but not a real barn burner.
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