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Meissner 150b - what the heck are all those TRANSFORMERS for??




 
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Author Topic: Meissner 150b - what the heck are all those TRANSFORMERS for??  (Read 20393 times)
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2010, 11:35:13 PM »

Nah, you're on the money, Terry. The same argument could be made against owning antique cars which are primitive, heavy, less efficient, and so on vs. a plastic Volvo, Toyota, or some hybrid. Or antique furniture, or books vs, CDs, etc etc.

Fortunately we don't live in a monolithic world. The variety of choices and opportunities keeps it interesting.
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2010, 11:58:12 PM »

Quote
Someone with a lot of "spare change" lying around.  Big money for low power and excessive weight!!!

Not really if you love old radios. Would it had been better if it had hit the scrap heap  Cry Cry
Once they are junked, history is gone. But then again, I'm not thinking progressively. I need to stop living in the past and scrap everything I own.



Obviously the scrap heap is bad - and this radio would never have hit the scrap heap - someone would pay SOMETHING.  I'm just saying that $600+ dollars is a LOT of money for the low power, arguably poor performance and very great weight.  Does not in any mean that these old sets are bad or shouldn't be used and certainly should not be scrapped!!!  There are many things in this world that are expensive and not very practical - and I'm sure I own plenty of them  Cheesy
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2010, 07:32:28 AM »

The way I look at it is the rig is supposed to do ~150 to 175 w. (depending on how good your 813 is) and that's only around 3 dB down from 300--not too bad especially if the owner has a decent antenna.  The lucky ones who can manage to get a dipole up around 100 feet or more on 75 could strap with this thing.  For the rest of us, it may be a daytime rig  Sad but how can anyone not like the sight of four 866As?  (and full coverage 160 up through 40 m., the important ham bands  Cheesy)
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2010, 07:56:40 AM »

You could argue none of this stuff is practical if you use a smart phone or internet as your communications comparison.  But what hobby stuff (in any hobby) could pass the practical test?  But if you use FUN as your metric, other than moving (or buying) the Meissner it rates high on the fun scale even if it does offset the power savings of a whole boxcar load of CFLs Smiley

I spent last night setting up a Gonset vintage SSB station (G-63 receiver with GSB-100 phasing transmitter and GSB-101 amp with 4 811A tubes) and it is a lot of things but practical isn't one of them.  At least with the crystal notch filter the carrier suppression on the GSB-100 is a lot less critical to keep adjusted than my CE-20A.
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« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2010, 05:42:27 PM »

You could argue none of this stuff is practical if you use a smart phone or internet as your communications comparison.  But what hobby stuff (in any hobby) could pass the practical test?  But if you use FUN as your metric, other than moving (or buying) the Meissner it rates high on the fun scale even if it does offset the power savings of a whole boxcar load of CFLs Smiley



Amen Rodger, that's my way of thinking.
The joy is in the climb as much as the destination!
If we wanted simple, we'd use a cellphone.


To borrow a snippet from something a wrote a few years back -->> http://www.w1ujr.net/everything_old.htm

One thing which I have noticed with many free time pursuits is that the serious practitioners always return to the roots of the sport.

Example, I was a very avid ocean kayaker when I first moved to Maine. The really serious in the sport left the latest and greatest fiberglass boats and asymmetrical plastic paddles and returned to native design boats and thin Greenland style wooden paddles. I was skeptical, but after some time I gave up my asymmetrical plastic paddle for a Greenland wooden paddle and never looked back. It was easier to paddle with and far more versatile.

I see this same trend in sailing, the resurgence of the wooden boat over fiberglass. A complete subculture and businesses have grown up around a technology, wooden boat building, which was once considered dead. Wooden boats have become the things of art, dreams and desires, and the commensurate work required for the upkeep just part of the wooden boat experience.

I suspect that some of the real draw to the early days of ham radio, vacuum tubes and home brew gear, has a great deal to do with this very observation. People crave the warm, tangible touch of an objects, the glow of a vacuum tube, the smell of hot dust as the tube warms up, the hum of the transformers, even the squeal of a heterodyne. I believe that people crave those very sensory experiences almost as much as the on-air contacts.

My point is that real, authentic experiences do not leave us quickly. Instead they light a slow burning fuse that lasts our entire life. Remember your first homerun in Little League, or your first touchdown in football. Those moments are indelibly imprinted on our minds for the rest of our life. So it is with radio, and I hope future generations will have the same privilege, experience and joy that I have discovered in the amateur service.
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 07:35:38 PM »

<<If we wanted simple, we'd use a cellphone.>>

The funny thing is that to me, the cell gadgets, and all the little wireless plastic doodads people get addicted to are much more complex and a time/money waste than running old tube gear.    Life is too short for waiting on hold for CrotchBox wireless customer service. 
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« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2010, 07:20:59 AM »

Cell phones and anything else that will require an external, provided-by-someone-else intrastructure isn't going to be too useful when the infrastructure fails!  That's the REAL advantage of ham radio.
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« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2010, 07:33:51 AM »

This thread has CERTAINLY degraded from the original thought that started it  Grin and that is simply a question as to why there are SO many transformers in the transmitter, and the the rig will be a definitely contender in the pounds per watt category !  No value judgements were stated or implied  Cheesy

The thought came about because, for myself, as I get older, the thought of moving ANYTHING that's unreasonably heavy is not particularly appealing.  Sore back recovery takes a lot longer now than it did 30 years ago, when heavier was BETTER, at least in my mind  Wink

We were moving a number of years ago, and my wife asked me:  do I have to help move any of those heavy metal sharp things?  An accurate description, for sure  Cool

Regards,

Steve


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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2010, 11:25:16 AM »

If you look at some of the older designs from the 30's and 40's, lots of transformers were used. Often, every audio stage in the audio chain was transformer coupled to the next. It was not unusual for 3-5 transformer sto be in the audio chain alone. Throw in a few filament transformers, LV and HV supply trannies and maybe even a bias supply tranny and you could end up with 8-10 transformers.

Also popular in that era was the two-section choke input filter for DC power supplies. So now you have two chokes in each DC supply! The iron added up fast.   Smiley
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« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2010, 12:27:03 PM »

Yep, the iron sure required some strapping STEEL chassis and infrastructure, thus adding to the weight further.

Steve/QIX has always been an advocate of using the minimum amount of audio iron possible, esp for audio/phase shift distortion.  I took it to heart and eliminated all audio transformers in my 4X1 X 4X1's rig, except for the final modulation transformer and Heising reactor. It made quite a difference, though, I can still see some artifacts caused by the mod iron in the DEEP lows.

My Class E rig uses no audio transformers, of course, as well as the FT-1000D when used as an exciter/Linear combo. So, mission accomplished.

**  BTW, Frank/GFZ's very FB  MOSFET audio driver board will be coming out as a circuit board. Someone is finishing it up now and will post the details in the near future. Highly recommended to go from one volt audio to driving most ANY set of tube modulators, from 811A's, 813's,  to 833A's, 4-1000A's, etc without an audio driver transformer needed.

T
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« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2010, 12:35:38 PM »

PC board is up and running. There are a few trace spacing issues but it works. Maybe Rich can post some pictures. I'm working on Rev A design
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« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2010, 05:22:09 PM »

PC board is up and running. There are a few trace spacing issues but it works. Maybe Rich can post some pictures. I'm working on Rev A design

You got a schematic available?  I have a direct-coupled driver I'm using here (as an experiment) that will develop plus and minus 300 V (600 V P-P).  It would be interesting to compare notes before your next etch rev is completed.  I imagine the circuits are similar, but there are always differences.  I can post my schematic as well when it's reasonably finalized.  I do not have any intention of doing a board.

Regards,

Steve
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w3jn
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« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2010, 06:55:26 PM »

If you look at some of the older designs from the 30's and 40's, lots of transformers were used. Often, every audio stage in the audio chain was transformer coupled to the next.

Building and operating a xmitter with a coat, vest, and tie cancelled out the phase shift and weight problems  Grin
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« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2010, 11:52:19 AM »

...i've werked ed, k0bka on 160...his sig from that thing is great...

..sk..
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« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2010, 12:02:52 AM »

Tim, I worked him last weekend and got all excited when he told me what rig he was running.   Unfortunately something happened that took him away from the QSO, a phone call or something (we were in a 4 or 5 station roundtable) and he never came back.  I was all ready to ask him a bunch of questions about it like if he's running the 866As or s.s. the p.s. but didn't get to talk to him about it.

Rob
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« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2011, 12:33:08 PM »

Ah yes! I owned the beast in 1957 as a new "Conditional" class ham. I will never forget it as it threw me across the room and haven't been the same since!  Smiley Dick/K1DPM
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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2011, 04:05:19 AM »

Well I bought the 150-B.  Was a great buy at $650, was like new.  Had all the coils, essentially new tubes, like new manual, bunch of MIL spares - and the seller threw in the Signal Shifter gratis with all its coils as well.

I pulled out the stock speech section (poor response curve and limited drive into the 811s).  It is now HA-100 UTC to 6SN7 PP to pair PP 6W6s (great sleeper pentodes) with fixed bias, cathode loaded Peerless choke (from 175watt PP 811a Altec 1570B audio amp) into the 811 grids.  Added individual bias pots and test points to balance the 811s for minimal hum max PSRR.  The new speech section does 20 hz to 30KHz flat and still going strong out to 80K at 195vRMS.

Just now finishing up the new speech section (adding stout 80v bias circuit for the 6W6's) and getting ready to bring this old beauty up on bench to confirm both 866-based HV PSUs, and modulator and RF sections still work to spec.

I'd have paid $1000 for it once I saw it in the flesh...  It will use my DAP610 multi-band EQ/compressor, Gates tube preamp and fat SM-7 voice-over mic.    Alan Freed on WABC...

It will be a mate to my nice old Collins 51-J3 as my AM station.

73 de K5LRX



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w3jn
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« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2011, 04:18:46 AM »

Very nice - why not post some pics?

And welcome to AMFone.net, by the way Grin
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« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2011, 11:13:59 AM »

Well I bought the 150-B.  Was a great buy at $650, was like new.  Had all the coils, essentially new tubes, like new manual, bunch of MIL spares - and the seller threw in the Signal Shifter gratis with all its coils as well.

73 de K5LRX

Look forward to working you with that rig !  Also during the AM Transmitter Rally.

Regards,

Steve
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« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »

I have posted a Meissner 150-B for sale here on the AMFONE web site.  I want to sell it here and then meet the buyer at NEAR-Fest in NH on Octpber 11-12, 2019.  Here is a link to a video of the radio. https://youtu.be/SZLI2vRCpMI

73
Paul N. Gayet AA1SU

PS The Meissner 150-B has been sold to Todd KA1KAQ.


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« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2019, 10:43:50 PM »

Watts per pound?
Non-Broadcast rigs?

(I know this is an old thread...)

But I think this one may go to the judges for a ruling?
The CONTENDER for the TITLE!

The SUPREME Transmitter!

All 60watts of plate modulation!
(well it's listed as 100)
29.4 inches WIDE
And, 125 pounds!

One just acquired by W2TRH, Steve, at the most recent Suzzicks NJ hamfeaster!!
(generic image, although Steve's looks about the same)

                              _-_-



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* Supreme QRZ-2.JPG (139.92 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 241 times.)
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2019, 09:35:05 AM »

Steve got a nice transmitter. Would love to have that with the old rigs here.

At 125 lbs it's just over 1/3rd of a 150B which weighs in at 305 pounds. Add in the external exciter and you're bumping 350.

Interesting in that it's clearly a pre-war design but was drafted into WWII service without a BC- number. The nomenclature tags simply say Meissner 150B. 


* 150B-2.JPG (831.58 KB, 1949x1653 - viewed 139 times.)
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« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2019, 04:42:16 PM »

3 Words - Thordarson Meissner Inc.
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