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Author Topic: End of an Era...  (Read 66940 times)
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Detroit47
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2010, 11:28:39 AM »

I think I'd better give up my incandescent bulbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k

Love it
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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2010, 11:49:11 AM »

It would be funnier if it wasn't a satire of a real situation. 

My daughters science classes are no longer teaching real sciences, but enviro-speak rubbish.  The scientific method has fallen completely out of the realm of the class room, since it flies in the face of accepting something based on common thought or convention, since neither require actual proof, and benefit from lack of independent thought.

No one teaches real chemistry or physics because they have to spend so much time on environmental studies ( or how chemistry is tied into the environment) and yet we all decry the lack of performance of those subjects in American schools.
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2010, 01:16:09 PM »

The same mentality as the anti-AM "spectrum conservation" bullshit we endured from the late 50s through the mid 90s. 

Instead of worrying about incandescent  lamps, why not something to curtail the unnecessary light pollution that covers every square inch of every urban area in the entire world? Those who run things have now become afraid of the dark, so every street, house and business has to be artificially lit up throughout the hours of darkness, whether there is anyone there or not.

It is supposed to get dark outside at night.


http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/11/light-pollution/richardson-photography

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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2010, 03:19:23 PM »

There is a push by those in favor of energy efficient lighting to do away with so-called edison socketing in new lighing fixtures.

The claim is that edison-socket fixtures would not be efficient with light due to the proposed shapes of new LED and fluorescent lamps, particularly the LED lamps which naturally emit light in only one direction. It adds cost and complexity to make an omnidirectional LED light bulb.

There is already a war brewing between fluorescent and LED factions because of similar conversion efficiencies over incandescent lamps.

For use in situations other than omnidirectional table lamps, It is in the interest of LED faction to promote, even mandate all new (primarily ceiling) fixtures that are not designed to use the all-direction emission of fluorescent (and incandescent) lamps.

They see the installed base and the traditional use of edison sockets as well as the popular edison-base CFL, as a huge block to their business plans to dominate the industry because it would allow any type of lamp to be used, not only the more costly LED.

The only real issue with a screw-in unidirectional LED lamp designed to replace an edison bulb or CFL is base indexing so that the light goes in the correct direction. They also seek to have the ballast not in the replaceable lamp, but in the fixture, further restricting product technology choices.

This will eventually force people away from traditional lamps and CFLs towards the new technology.

It is also likely that it will cause a limitation on the choices of wattage, similar to the way a 40 watt fluorescent fixture cannot accept any other wattage of lamp.

For example, in the ceiling of a typical cookie-cutter house, the owner will only be able to install a 20 watt LED lamp that fits that standardized fixture and its "ballast", instead of choosing from 7.5 to 150W incandescent or equivalent CFL lamps and just screwing them in according to their own wishes.

It is a scheme with the result of removing choices from people without regard for the individual lighting intensity desired, all under the flying flag of eco-nonsense.

LED manufacturers are quick to slap the green label on, but underneath that label is the hidden environmental costs of a semiconductor manufacturing plant. And it does not matter how many "carbon credits" such a plant buys, the waste is the same. We all live with semiconductor devices, and whether nor not we care about, or are willing to pay for, the chemcial process impact, we have to acknowledge its cost when choosing a light. So, when you see a LED lamp label touting "no mercury", please remember the thousands of gallons of really nasty chemicals used in a semiconductor manufacturing process. It's a wash (punintended)

There are choices for the end user. In a lab at work, where lighting of a constant color temperature is required, and the light level is to be variable, it was accomplished with a bank of ten 32 watt T8 fluorescent lamps, and they can be turned on one at a time. It required ten electronic ballasts to do that. just a little ingenuity.

Hopefully, as new lighting technology becomes commonplace, manufacturers will give consideration to the use of multiple-lamp fixtures and dimmable ballasts in order to meet the requirements of users. If not. we will just have to make our own, as we do with more complex electronic equipment every day.
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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2010, 03:59:47 PM »

if you can't win by marketing a superior product, then win by legislation and litigation... and to hell with what people want.
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
W1RKW
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« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2010, 04:14:14 PM »

The same mentality as the anti-AM "spectrum conservation" bullshit we endured from the late 50s through the mid 90s.  

Instead of worrying about incandescent  lamps, why not something to curtail the unnecessary light pollution that covers every square inch of every urban area in the entire world? Those who run things have now become afraid of the dark, so every street, house and business has to be artificially lit up throughout the hours of darkness, whether there is anyone there or not.

It is supposed to get dark outside at night.


Don,
I couldn't agree more.  As one like many here who enjoy sitting outside in the dark looking at the stars, light pollution is a big bugaboo of mine. Night is supposed to be night.  Even out here in rural CT we are plagued by skyglow from the 2 casinos, the capital city which are about 20mi away and the center of our dinky town.  There's so much waste on lighting up stuff that does not need to be lit up.
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Bob
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2010, 04:20:03 PM »

Those two casinos produce a lot more polution than light . It is a low life magnet to attract dirt bags to SE Ct.
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N0WVA
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« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2010, 05:41:20 PM »

I think I'd better give up my incandescent bulbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k

Makes you wonder who the real terrorists are.
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W1RKW
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« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2010, 06:08:31 PM »

Those two casinos produce a lot more polution than light . It is a low life magnet to attract dirt bags to SE Ct.

Don't you know it!  That's a completely different subject. Don't get me started Wink
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Bob
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Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2010, 07:56:49 PM »

But many of the parts are made outside the USA.

The computer you typed your message on is made outside the USA, as where the routers, switches and most everything else connected to it.

We're fooling ourselves with the I Buy American BS.



Most things are cheap imported junk. Anyone who says they don't buy the stuff is FOS.

Four vehicles here:

Daughter drives a 2008 Flex-Fuel Chevy Malibu. Made in USA and runs on on $2.15/gallon 85% American Made Ethanol.

I drive a Ford F-250 diesel and usually B-20 Biodiesel fuel. Truck made in Louisville, KY. Fuel is usually from Iowa. 190,000 miles.

Wife drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Made in Ohio, USA.

Son drives a Ford Focus. 30-35 MPG gasser and manufactured in Detroit.

My wife grew up in a manufacturing town in Ohio her brother was a lifer at Timken, and we both have always made an effort to buy products that directly support American business. It's not so difficult. Now, Timken's gone. Hoover is gone. Canton Ohio is another Detroit.

The problem is that most folks talk the talk but don't walk the walk. I will pay 10% more for a product made here in the USA of comparable quality.

Am I stupid? You betcha.

I once bought a new Toyota. I loved that car. It rusted through and even the rear axle gears wore out after 100,000 miles. Junked it. Why would I buy another?

I don't have a problem with free trade. As long as it's fair and bilateral.  But we need to support our neighbors and American manufacturers if given a chance or it'll end up costing us a whole lot more (unemployment, loss of tax revenue, standard of living) in the long run. Pay now or pay later.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2010, 07:58:29 PM »

LOL. So now they're on equal footing with unions which have been buying elections for decades.




The big businesses have the congress and the laws pretty much on their side...

Capitalized profits, socialized losses.

And the supreme court just declared that corporations are persons, who are free to buy elections.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2010, 07:59:14 PM »

So, you hate Native American tribes, eh?

Those two casinos produce a lot more polution than light . It is a low life magnet to attract dirt bags to SE Ct.

Don't you know it!  That's a completely different subject. Don't get me started Wink
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2010, 09:09:56 PM »

They can move to your town any time you want Steve. Dirt bags come free.

Oh,  and real Indians are beautiful people
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w1vtp
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2010, 09:47:10 PM »

Start hoarding.  I have a special place reserved in my new attic.   Anyone done business with these folks? You can buy by the case - that's 120 bulbs @ $48 for the brass base long life ones

http://www.bulbs.com/Incandescent_Bulbs/results.aspx

I'm getting ready to place my first order.

Al
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2010, 09:52:53 PM »

I have about 100 bulbs in my stash. LEDS should be cheap by the time I run out. I bought some 1 watt LED night lights with 3 leds with photo sensors.
They throw off lots of light.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2010, 01:42:25 AM »

The white man trashed up the entire state of CT and you're complaining about a little casino for the Indians.  Roll Eyes




They can move to your town any time you want Steve. Dirt bags come free.

Oh,  and real Indians are beautiful people

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W3SLK
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Just another member member.


« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2010, 09:59:05 AM »

Steve said:
Quote
But many of the parts are made outside the USA.

The computer you typed your message on is made outside the USA, as where the routers, switches and most everything else connected to it.

We're fooling ourselves with the I Buy American BS.

You are absolutly right, Steve! Look on the new car "sticker" and you will see the breakdown of what is made where.
I think we ought to adopt the same philosophy as the EU does with pharmaceuticals: " X% of it must be made in the EU in order for it to be sold in the EU."
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
WA3VJB
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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2010, 10:45:54 AM »

Thanks for the link Al.
I have been getting 130V Chinese lamps for the ceiling lights and the footcandles aren't as high as the Phillips 130V they replace.  Will try your vendor.

Start hoarding.  
http://www.bulbs.com/Incandescent_Bulbs/results.aspx
I'm getting ready to place my first order.

Al
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K6IC
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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2010, 12:45:14 PM »

And as a slight aside...

For those with Collins Broadcast rigs in 20 V2/ 300J/ 21E range,  the GE Lumiline lamps are still avaiable,  and if one is not going to retrofit to LED or flourescent,  then the following may be of some interest:

GE Lumiline Lamps:
http://www.elightbulbs.com/library/general_electric_lumiline_light_bulbs.cfm

Lumiline Lamp End Clips:
http://store.candlepower.com/geluendcl1.html

Note,  I have not done business with either of these companies.
But I recently broke a GE LL Lamp,  so am going to need to snag a few.  Vic
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John Holotko
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« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2010, 05:09:19 PM »

As far as I'm concerned those "energy saver (waster)" CFL bulbs stink. They are total garbage. More cheap Chinese made junk. And , as an aside, those so called "environmentally friendly" bulbs contain mercury and are  hazardous.  The environment doesn;t need us to "clean it up". The environments taken care of itself for millions of years without our help. It's pretty arrogant to think that it needs us  to keep it going.

Energy saver bulbs ? No thanks.  I'll stick with my good ol fashioned incandescent bulbs. And when they finally pry the last incandescent bulb from my hands I'll just break out the kerosene lamps  and use those instead.  Oh wait, I don;t have toi break out  the kerosene lamps, I never stopped using them to begin with.
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VE3GZB
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« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2010, 06:29:47 PM »

I think that what we "build" here today are in reality sub-assemblies and components mostly manufactured out of country.  It's no longer the method Henry Ford used.  The first Fords were assembled from components actually manufactured on site.  The concept of raw materials entering on one end of the plant and the finished product exiting out of final assembly is a thing of the past.

Of course.

I have to stifle a laugh whenever I see these "Out of work yet? Just keep buying foreign" bumper stickers.

You can't build a car today without using microchips manufactured in China, Taiwan and Japan, plastics made from oil imported from the middle east and a whole host of other materials which are procured from manufacturers overseas. Same goes for a lot of other technological products, including the computer you are reading this on.

Even the vacuum tubes in your transmitter may have been manufactured in China or Russia. Definitely your transistors and microchips in your modern rig came from some overseas plant too.

Your so-called "homegrown" cars like Ford, Chevy, Chrysler are made from many parts which are available overseas at the prices which make them competitive. This is the nature of capitalism - the free unhindered flow of capital to wherever the best profit occurs.

It's funny however that Hondas and Toyotas made on the North American continent are still profitable and still just as good as those manufactured overseas.

Just my 2 cents worth. There is no such thing as "homegrown", unless you are planting and growing your own vegetables in your backyard....even then, the seeds you planted may have come from somewhere else.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2010, 07:24:43 PM »

LOL. So now they're on equal footing with unions which have been buying elections for decades.




The big businesses have the congress and the laws pretty much on their side...

Capitalized profits, socialized losses.

And the supreme court just declared that corporations are persons, who are free to buy elections.

The supreme court decision specifically accommodated unions along with corporations.

Do you really think the remnants of trade unions as they exist in the US, even the big ones like the Teamsters, are on anywhere near equal footing with Microsoft, ExxonMobil and JPMorgan Chase?
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2010, 09:05:30 PM »

Considering they openly donated about 1 Billion in the last election, it would be hard to see it any other way. The under the table money is easily 10 times that amount.

It's a world economy. The "US only silliness" is a continuation of narrow-minded thinking from the 1950s. It might have made sense then, since we had bombed all other competing economies into oblivion. Those days have been gone for decades but too many Americans can't or won't understand that the world has changed. Instead of taking the time when we had no competition to position ourselves, we spent the 50-70's getting fat and dumb.
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2010, 09:27:28 PM »

Not to mention all the dirt bags in the beltway  providing tax cuts to send middle class jobs to china.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2010, 09:31:15 PM »

The "US only silliness" is a continuation of narrow-minded thinking from the 1950s. It might have made sense then, since we had bombed all other competing economies into oblivion. Those days have been gone for decades but too many Americans can't or won't understand that the world has changed. Instead of taking the time when we had no competition to position ourselves, we spent the 50-70's getting fat and dumb.

Interesting idea - "We bombed all other competing economies into oblivion."


I had to buy a lot of hardware over the last few months for some big non-ham projects here. Most of my comparison shopping has been on the web. I am amazed at the quality of the electronics coming out of China. Their other hardware is not too shabby either, for the price - their prices can't be beat. It's all designed as throw-away products. For example, I picked up a decent quality 24 hour light timer the other day. $5.95! How the heck can they design, build, pay wages, SHIP it from China and still make a profit for the USA distributer and retailer?

I still maintain that when we eventually emerge from this deflation, China will lead the whole whirl in economic power. Cyclically, they are where the USA was after WWII - poised for expansion. As the USA staggers to get sober, China will be kicing ass over the next 20+ years.  Despite their problems they are still holding their own. The rest of the whirl will catch up much later - probably after most of us here are gone.

T  
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