@&##$% wasps

[k4kyv]

Looks like the temperatures are finally cooling down enough that I can resume my never-ending house painting project.

I started to work this morning, repairing some of the rotted wood before the primer is to be applied.  But after about an hour, I was chased away by red wasps that have apparently built nests inside the cavity between the siding and the interior wall. They began dive-bombing me and chased me off the ladder several times before I gave up. I think the only thing that saved me from stings was my loose-fitting  long sleeve T-shirt and my frizzy hair.  I can handle visible nests built under the overhang, but I don't even know where the nest is.  Probably multiple nests.

The last thing I need is to fall off a ladder trying to escape a swarm of the bastards.  That happened to me several years ago and resulted in a racked-up knee  that had me  laid up for a couple of months. This part of the house was built in about 1915, so there are plenty of cracks for wasps to enter and exit.

I wonder how professional painters deal with this situation, which must be a common problem, since probably every old house in this part of the country is similarly infested. I have asked a couple of local guys, but all they have ever worked on were modern, air-tight houses with vinyl siding, so the only painting they have ever done was exterior trim and interior, and they said they have never had any problem with wasps.

I don't want to JS spray-paint with the cheapest product available, over the wood as is, and then have to re-do it 3 years from now.  I am stripping off layers of old paint down to bare wood, oil priming it, and top coating with two coats of premium 100% acrylic latex paint. Not many people round here do it that way any more. Even so, I know the paint job won't last as long as the old-fashioned paint used to decades ago when all they had was oil-based lead paint.

[WQ9E]

Don,

Growing up in the south I remember a product that was known as "Florida Lineman's Spray".  It was (maybe is) an aerosol container that shoots the contents in a thin stream up to around 15 feet and brought down whatever it hit instantly.  My brother sent me a can of it back in the early 90's after I discovered a hornet nest while painting my 2 story barn and it was impressively effective.

When you get attacked on a ladder the indirect effects are generally far more damaging than the actual sting

[K5UJ]

My hunch is that professionals smoke them.   I know that when they have to deal with a bee hive that's inside a wall or some hard to get to place that's enclosed, they flood it with smoke until the bugs are dopey then they deal with them.   With bees they are trying to save and move the hive but wasps can be smoked the same way and they'd then remove enough siding to see what's up.   Or else they get decked out in one of those bee keeper getups with the baggy jump suit and big frame of netting over their heads and work at exposing the nests.   I have been stung by one of those type of wasps and you can't handle a bunch of them all at once with a stream of spray.   Another thing you can do is wait until the temperature is down around 40 degrees and then they'll be sluggish but that is a few months off.

[K6IC]

Don,

In addition to what's alread been said,  have noticed that these little beasts become much more docile after sunset.  Think that it is not just the temps are lower,  but either their clocks shut them down after sunset,  or perhaps they cannot see well.

Found some in an old car which was seldom used, and at about 10 PM opened the door,  where they had built their nest,  and shot them with, the now banned,  Dursban.  They all died !  Whatta shame!

You might be able to drill a hole in the wall at night and vacuum them up ?  Or blast them with pesticide,  but,  just like the old and good paint,  the effective pesticides seem to have been banned,  and the replacements are totally ineffective.  might as well be food for the pests,  the new crap does not work at all.

73  GL  Vic

[k4kyv]

The squirt cans are effective on exposed nests.  These are inside the wall and I would have to tear up the siding to get to them, which I don't want to do.  And if I wait till it starts dropping to 40° at night, I won't have enough time left before cold weather to complete the job.

If it's not one thing, it's fifteen.

[AJ1G]

Up here they are not just in walls.  About two weeks ago I pissed off a nest of white faced hornets that had a nest in the ground while cutting the lawn.  All of a sudden I felt WHAM WHAM WHAM in my ankles.  I saw them and took off and the damn things actually hung on to one of  my socks until I was able to shake them off.  Ended up with at least three stings in one ankle and at least two on the other.  Hurt like hell for about a day.  Good thing I am not allergic to stings.

The worst part though was about 5 days later I  noticed that both ankles started to itch like I had poison ivy.  Both ankles had a huge bright red rash and had started to swell up.  Went to the doc and he confirmed it was a cellulitis skin infection from the stings.  Said it was quite common to get it from wasp stings, especially on the ankles.  Put me on a heavy dose of augmentin antibiotic.  Started to clear up after another few days.  Left untreated, cellulitis can go very bad very fast.

Lesson of the story - do more than just hose off an insect sting with cold water like I did.  Clean locations of stings with alcohol and apply some antibiotic cream over the stings to prevent possible infection.  Watch out for development of infection afterward.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Shop vac if you can find the entry way.  and it's small enough, jam a shop vac nozzel into the hole, leave it there for a bit (up to you). The noise/vibrations of the shop vac causes the bugs to go into defense mode, and they sortie out of the nest, where Mr. Shop Vac eats them up.  However. Do NOT open the shop vac for a bit afterwards...  Run water into the shop vac to kill off the trapped adults.   

Regardless of the method you chose to eliminate the adults, the nest and larvae left behind can cause rot in the wall.  You may want to pull out what you can afterwards.

[w1vtp]

Shop vac if you can find the entry way.  and it's small enough, jam a shop vac nozzel into the hole, leave it there for a bit (up to you). The noise/vibrations of the shop vac causes the bugs to go into defense mode, and they sortie out of the nest, where Mr. Shop Vac eats them up.  However. Do NOT open the shop vac for a bit afterwards...  Run water into the shop vac to kill off the trapped adults.   

Regardless of the method you chose to eliminate the adults, the nest and larvae left behind can cause rot in the wall.  You may want to pull out what you can afterwards.

Or smoke generator - or a CO2 extinguisher -- Then you can open the canister and kill them with the insecticide of your choice.  Probably be best to be wearing protective gear while doing this -- ya think?   Water might mess up the filter in the shop vac.

If you can put this off until the first frost, doing this after a real cold night will have them already dopey (hopefully)

GL, Al

[W1ATR]

Bees suck. You might want to try to determine how many are in there. Go inside the house, shut it up tight, and bang on the wall to get them to start coming out then look out a window or whatever. If it's just a few flying around, no problem. If it's a lot of them, you may want to call a pro in to deal with them. You shouldn't really leave the nest itself in the wall.

Bunch of years ago, I was running a lineset (air cond) up the side of an older house and the impact screw driver stirred up a nest in the wall. At first there were just a couple which I didnt care about. THEN they started filing out in a black cloud that was was taking out the sun. Sure as sh!t, I got the hell out and told the cust he probably needs a pro to remove them. I was back there a few days later and they had a large hole cut in the wall and removed a nest 5 feet long. The cust was told they removed around 30,000 bees and 24lb's of nest. Made my skin crawl. The interior of the wall cavity was completely shot to hell with moisture from the hive.

[W2VW]

Maybe a giant 811 would work.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

That's the thing, the insects bring in food and materials, not to mention the normal biological processes. All this provides moisture and ingress for rot and fungus in the walls.  Even non-distructive ones like hornets or wasps, cause damage due to their day to day existance and operation in the wall space.
Best to get them out as soon as they are noticed.

[W9GT]

Wow!  This must be the year for those nasty critters!  We had a problem earlier this summer with yellow jackets.  These little wasps look like bees, but are actually wasps.  They are usually annoying, but not real aggressive and don't sting unless cornered or trapped in clothing.  This year, for some reason, we noticed that they seemed smaller in size, but far more agressive. I eliminated a huge nest of them under the eaves of our garden barn by using that 15' spray can stuff, but then we found a place where they were getting into the house siding.  After soaking the entrance area with plenty of spray, I was able to block it off and they eventually all died or, at least stopped their activity in that area.  I managed to get stung once, but it was a minor hit.

There was a very unfortunate incident in our area a few years ago when an elderly gentleman was killed when he accidently opened up a huge nest of yellow jackets in the ground.  They swarmed on him and stung him hundreds of times and he died from shock.  The irony of it was that he was a beloved local figure who had been the director of our local zoo for many years before retiring.

At any rate, use caution when dealing with those little vermin.  They can pack a real wallop, especially in large numbers.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[W2ZE]

As much as you like to do things on your own (I can certainly understand), there comes a time when you need to call a professional. This is the time. Nests that are infested that deep into a home, need to be profesionally dealt with. After all, we are talking about your domicile. Its not a question of keeping up home value to use your houe as an ATM, it's a question of property and personal protection. This sounds like this has been going on for years, and if left or dealt with using JS sprays and smoke, you will never erraticate them.
I speak from experience. My home in upstate NY had an infestation of white hornets in the foundation. I tried to deal with them myself, only to be stung twice (which hurts lke HELL), and never gettng rid of them. 400 dollars and 4 hours of a pro's time, hornets gone. First thing I did when I moved to MD, called and protected my home from sub terrainian termites and ants. 500 dollars well spent and 10 years of piece of mind.
Ask your self a question..... Do you cut your own hair? No, call a pro.

Just my 2 pennies.

Mike

[The Slab Bacon]

Over the years, I have had to battle those little bastards as well. especially when I used to do repairs to wooden boats some years back.

After getting nailed a few times you seem to develop a inate hatred for those little buggers. years ago, I found something that kills them faster than anything I have ever seen, and it's easy to get!!

CRC brand "Brakekleen" (or spelled something like that) in the RED can!
It kills them instantly!! You can even play anti aircraft gun and shoot them out of the air with that stuff!! they make 2 types of brakleen, one in a green can (flammable) and the original in the red can (non flammable). DO NOT USE THE STUFF IN THE GREEN CAN AS IT JUST PISSES THEM OFF WORSE! ! ! ! But the stuff in the red can is still as good as it ever was! I actually keep a couple of cans of it out in the garage just for that purpose!

If I'm gonna clean out a nasty brake drum, I use something soap and water based to keep down the dusty mess. If I'm gonna kill bees, I reach for the Brakleen!
It will give you the cleanest bees around     And deadest!!

[K1JJ]

It runs in cycles, but it's time again. Those hornets that make the huge, gray, paper globe nests that look like a ghoul's head are back.

A few weeks ago I wasn't paying attention and opened the door of a storage trailer in the backyard. I just happened to look up and realized I had just torn in half a ~14" diameter hornet globe.  It was glued from the door to the frame.

I almost injured myself getting outa Dodge. The nest area became a mass of angry hornets looking for revenge for the next hour.  

Within a day or two it was repaired and I see the normal flights in and out as well as the body guards hanging at the entrance.  I left them alone and let them live, figuring the poor bastards have only one season and then die. True warriors, they are. What the heck.

It wud be a different story if they were attached to the house.


T

[The Slab Bacon]

Wasps, hornetz, yellow jackets, etc are a troublesome pain in the ass. I will usually kill them just for the hell of it as they are an extreme nuisance, and will often come after you even if not provoked!!

However, the big black and yellow furry bumblehuzzies are kind of fun. they are docile and wont hurt you even if provoked. I like to catch them in my hand and play with them. The neighborhood kids get a kick out of watching me pet them. It is kinda interesting that they will actually ignore you if they find a big juicy flower and you reach over and tap them on the head. They are harmless. I dont know if it is true or not, but I've been told that they dont have stingers. But either way they wont hurt you.

[Fred k2dx]

Windex is effective at shooting down yellowjackets midair. It is good to saturate small to medium sized nests as well - wait until after dark when they all have returned to the nest and saturate it. I feel better using ammonia instead of the witches brew poisons, especially if it's in an area where humans or pets could be exposed to the poison residue/vapors.

If there is a nest in the ground I wait until after dark and stuff a rag down the entrance, saturate it with a good bit of kerosene, and light the wick. By the next day they are all smothered.

Now a surprise encounter with a nest when climbing a tower is a situation. Yellowjackets will pursue you as you try to retreat, like kamikazes. Don't ask me how I know!

Don, if you spend some time just watching the side of your house from a lounge chair you may be able to determine exactly where their entrance is, then deal with them at night. Maybe removing a few pieces of siding will be enough to get the nest.  

[K1JJ]

I've seen wasps circle a tower in large groups, climbing about a foot per second. I thought I had a nest at the top until I climbed and saw nothing. They were probably just looking for food, like caterpillars, etc. Quite common here.


However, I would hate to see a big gray globe hanging off the tower. How would you handle that if it was at 100'+ ?     Never seen one of those on the towers yet.


T

[k3zrf]

I had noticed some piles of fine dirt balls along the flagstone behind the house. I thought they were voles at first but watching at dusk I noticed a female cicada killer flying into one of the holes dragging a freshly sedated cicada. These things are big. I used mint oil around and down the hole.

After some investigation following their euthanasia I discovered that these guys rarely sting humans.

Felt bad but am allergic to all members of the order Hymenoptera.

Big suckers and look even bigger while flying.

[k4kyv]

Bumblebees are pretty docile. There are similar looking bees that can be aggressive, though.  I had a nest of them in a shed, and whenever I approached the building they would dive bomb and sting my face as they brushed by.  The sting was very mild compared to a wasp, but a sting no less.  I found the nest and doused it with kerosene and that seemed to get rid of them.

And then there are  carpenter bees.  They love pine wood, and can cause severe damage to  the framing of a building.  They tunnel corridors inside the wood to make their living quarters. This summer I found they would even attack treated lumber.

The wasps I am having the problem with are large red paper wasps that build a nest usually no more than 6"-8" in diameter.  They like to build under the overhang of the roof.  But if they can find a crack, they will build inside the wall, between the siding and the interior wall.  That's where I think mine are.  It is nearly impossible to avoid them or get rid of them, unless the building is hermetically sealed.  The walls in my house are mostly uninsulated, except for a couple of rooms where I have added insulation, so they have plenty of space to build.  Even if there is insulation, they will find a cavity somewhere.  When making repairs I have removed many old nests when I had a wall opened for some reason, but have never noticed any rot or fungus damage.  I think the house, which is 150 years old except for the addition that was built just before WW1, is too well ventilated for moisture buildup to be a problem.  Probably every older house in this part of the country has a similar problem.

I worked early this morning, and managed to keep them under control using a fly swatter.  Must have killed a dozen, but they don't seem to become too aggressive until about 10:30 AM when the heat of the day really begins.  Then it becomes too hazardous to even climb the ladder.  I may try directing bug spray into some of the cracks late in the afternoon and see what happens, but I suspect the nests are not in the immediate vicinity of the cracks where they enter the wall.

I'm not sure an exterminator could do much of anything without locating the nest, and then they would want to tear off siding or at least drill holes in the wall, which would ruin the cement fibre siding we had installed oven the addition a few years ago. That stuff is durable as long as you leave it alone, but is very brittle and tends to crack when you try to drill holes in it or drive nails into it. And the treatment would only be good for the season; no doubt more wasps would move in next year.  It would be impossible to seal all the small openings in the exterior without completely reconstructing the exterior walls.

BTW, I found that adding insulation to an old building is not always the best thing to do.  When I fixed up the shack after having it moved on premises, I completely replaced the wood siding on one of the walls.  While I had the wall open, I decided to install fibreglass batting between the studs.  It is a south wall and I thought maybe it would help with the cooling in summer, even though the rest of the building is uninsulated, except for ceiling insulation I laid over the loft floor.  Right away I started having problems with mildew on the wood siding that I had just installed, but only over where I had installed insulation. It wouldn't hold paint, and during warm rainy periods, I even found mushrooms growing on the wood.  Last summer I ended up replacing about 30% of  the wood siding on that wall because it was too rotten to paint or repair.  While I was at it, I pulled out all the insulation I had previously installed. Then stripped, filled, primed and repainted the entire wall. So far, no moisture problems.  Apparently the insulation cut off air circulation behind the wood siding and caused it to hold moisture and rot.

A couple of years ago I added wall insulation to a room in the main house.  That time, I installed house wrap between  the exterior siding and the insulation, and made sure there was a 1/4" or so gap between the siding and insulation.  So far, no visible moisture deterioration.

Back in the 70's, during the previous energy "crisis" there was a drive install insulation in everything. No doubt that has resulted in a lot of moisture problems when insulation was just crammed in walls without regard to proper ventilation.

Speaking of wasps or bees in the ground, ask Timtron to tell the story about the time I was up for a visit during the Germaine era, and ended up standing right over a nest, while a few other guests were present, particularly a couple from New York.
.

[The Slab Bacon]

Dave,
        the cicada killers we get down here run around 2 1/2" long and are some mean nasty ugly mothers!! I grabbed one with a welding glove some years back to investigate it. It had a stinger about 3/8" long and hard as a piece of steel!! I wouldnt want that mother to get me!! We usually see them around here flying around outside lights when the evenings get cooler. Bee cleaner works well on them also!!

Don,
      thinking about it, I have always played with carpenter bees as well. Never got stung. But being they eat wood, I bet they could bite the hell out of you. Especially if you have ever heard them chewing through wood. I think the ones you are having problems with are called "mahogany wasps" and are known for being somewhat agressive.

And................... I bet Timtron with bees in his britches must have been one hell of a sight to behold!!    

[k4kyv]

The bees were in MY britches.  But I'd bet the story would be more hilarious if Tim told it.

[KM1H]

Hornets and wasps have been quite scarce around here this year. Its either been the weather or Ive killed off so many nests in the past. There hasnt been one nest attached to the house or garage which is a first. Also only saw carpenter bees the past 3 years, last was the worse and only zapped one with its ass sticking out of the wood this year; those suckers are hard to hit with the spray, about as agile as one of Pappys Corsairs

Last year the towers attracted scores of them all the way to 100-120' and its mostly in sunny weather, I believe its the radiated heat that attracts them as they arent From the stinging part of the nest and are looking for holes to build new nests.

Carl

[The Slab Bacon]

The bees were in MY britches.  But I'd bet the story would be more hilarious if Tim told it.

This ought to be good! Timmy is a fantastic story teller, with his photographic memory, he usually goes to the Nth detail!! I still think he missed his calling in life. Next time I catch him on the air, I'll have to get him to tell it

I have several recordings of the famous "Tim and Tilly" story and I still crack up every time I hear it!! (I even have one told by his accomplice, Gary)

[W1RKW]

I get the brown paper wasps.  they build their nest around the deck on under various parts of the siding on the south side of the house.  It's warm so I don't blame them.  One thing I've learned about the brown paper wasp as they are dumb as a stump or just blind and I don't fear them and will remove them bear handed. They'll fly around then take off. 

Yellow jackets are a different story.  They don't screw around. Same with white face hornets. They're very defensive and aggressive.

Had a large yellow jacket nest that took up residency in what I think was a mole hole.  Was running the lawn mower near by and there was enough activity that I took as a warning.  Found the hole.  Waited until sunset and mixed up a nice brew of ammonia and clorox and covered the hole with a bucket.  Yellow jackets gone.