Boatanchor SSB on 160

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Add these to the list of better 160 meter SSB vintage stuff.

I can't remember if the HX-500 had 160 or not, but the HX-50 did.

On both the HX-50 and HX-50A  160 band output was available only on special order. Crystal, 1st and 2nd mixer coils, and driver coils had to be installed and wired in. HX-50 had a number of problems. Hammarlund issued a number of bulletins to resolve them. HX-50A wasn't much better with key clicks and VOX relay hang-ups. HX-500 only covered 80 to 10 meters.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The 820's had several issues early on like the flakey digital display, but there were also other problems. The mod kit that came from Kenwood to fix the display problem was a real pain to install too. They didn't make that model very long (just like the 530) and it was quickly replaced by the 830. The 830 was finally the good model.

The 830 didn't really last that long on the market either before Kenwood decided to go SS all the way and its a real shame too.

TS-820 entered the market in 1976; TS-520 and 599D Twins were already there. TS-820S and 520S entered the market around 1977. TS-830S was introduced in 1979 and exited around 1984. TS-530S, and its variations, came into the market around 1981. It was a somewhat stripped down version of the 830S at a lower price. 830S was designed to replace the 820S. 530S exited the market a few months before the 830S. Late 70's/early 80's came the all solid-state TS-120, TS-180, TS130, TS-430, and TS-930 rigs.

[ka3zlr]

All good info much obliged, Good thread well done..

73

Jack.

[KM1H]

With only 25 to 100W available in restricted segments plus Loran its a wonder any had 160.

160 was a popular low power AM commuting band but was pretty much a wasteland on SSB until Loran went away and the full 200 KHz opened to 1500W. I diddled on 160 with the 100V and 75A4 and even worked some DX but New England had 100W at the low end where the DX was. When the rule changed I added the band to the NCL-2000 and then got the LK-500ZC.

Carl

[k4kyv]

The problem is trying to find decent vintage 160 meter SSB rigs that were not a total P.O.S. because most of them were. All the good stuff stopped a 80 meters and didn't go any lower like the Collins S Line for example. There were not that many except for maybe the Drakes, but that's just a small step up from the Swans

The receiver section on most of the early solid state appliances was a P.O.S. The technology was still in its infancy and you had to sacrifice considerably in performance for the novelty of "solid state".  A classic example is the FT-101E series.  The receiver folds in the presence of a strong signal, even at the opposite end of the band, and the dynamic range sucks.  The Kenwood twins (R599/T599) have the same problem.

The problem is  caused by having multiple converter stages before even the first stage of i.f. filtering.  Tube type receivers like the 75A, 51J and R-390 series use the same arrangement, but the tube type mixers can handle the signals much better than active solid state mixers and solid state amplifier stages.  Later rigs, which showed considerable improvement, had a minimum number of amplifier stages before and after the mixer but preceding the selectivity filters or tuned circuits, and the frequency conversions were all done at the oscillator level before the L.O. was injected into the mixer.  The idea was to keep the signal path single conversion, or if double conversion, to avoid tunable i.f.s, but to use two fixed i.f.s with some selectivity built into the first i.f. stage on.  I believe this first i.f. selectivity is now called the "roofing filter" but I don't know why they don't simply call it the "1st i.f. filter".

I still believe the best active converter/mixer circuit ever devised was the one using a beam deflection tube like the 7360.  There were a couple of similar tubes, designed for TV receivers, that were cheaper than the 7360, which itself wasn't too expensive (less than $10 when it first appeared on the market).  In the rush to go solid state, use of the 7360 was quickly abandoned by the manufacturers and eventually the tube was discontinued.  I still have a couple that I bought back in the 70's.

Something that really made me cry was recently when I purchased a couple of n.o.s. 7360s on line, and when they arrived the Priority Mail self-adhesive box had come undone and the box arrived minus the contents. The seller reimbursed my money, but I would much rather have had the tubes.

[Fred k2dx]

The Atlas 215x, an early solid state transceiver, covered 160-15m. It had a decent receiver in it. Both rx/tx sounded ok. The IF filter was 2.8 kc I think. About as simple as you could make it! Just a classic but not a real boat anchor.

I have one yet - along with a 210x (80-10 m)



 

[sndtubes]

Woo Hoo.  I opened up a can of worms here!  Great discussion.  

I have a fully Sherwoodized Drake C Line.  It's great on 160. What I was looking for (and why I started this thread) was a transmitter that would pair up nicely with my 75A4 station.  Sadly, it won't be a Collins.  I'm thinkin' that proably the best choice will be a nice 100V or 200V that I can add 160 to.  Nick Tusa has a kit for $149.  Or, maybe a 20A that I can drive my Emtron amp with.  I know of a VFO for it that is available.  

Don, PM me if you still want some 7360's.  I have plenty in stock.

Mike

[WQ9E]

I remember seeing an advertisement for an adapter that allowed the 75A4 to control the 100V/200V in transceive mode.  Finding one today would be very difficult (and even more expensive) but you could probably build one if you really want that functionality. 

You have a great looking Drake setup and the transmitting converters are very rarely seen.   If you look at the top contest and DX stations of the late 60's/early 70's you will see a lot of Drake 4 line gear for a good reason-it performed extremely well.  I visited some heavy duty contest stations in the 1970's and C lines coupled with Alpha 77 amps were the hot ticket back then.

[sndtubes]

The only SSB transmitter that would properly pair up with the 75A-4 is the KWS-1.

Very hard to find today, very expensive, and it would not have 160 meters. However, the top remote section sitting next to the 75A-4 defiantly looks good.

As a matter of fact here is one now. The current bid was almost 2K. Not sure if it sold. It says reserve was not met.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180505649061

http://www.reelreports.com/store/Collins-KWS-1-Transmitter-180505649061.html

Thanks for the tip, but I've already got 2 of 'em.   The KWS-1 RF deck is on the far left in the picture.  The power supply is out of the picture.  If the KWS-1 had 160, the I would have never started this thread!

[Bill, KD0HG]

#1: S-Line audio sucks with the standard 2.1 KC SSB TX filter. You can (with some luck) find the Collins P/N 526-9500-00 2.9 KC filter. There is also a 3.1 KC filter. You need to swap out the carrier osc xtals with any new filters. At least you'll sound human again.

#2: It is very easy to homebrew a 160 transverter for the S-Line as it already has a low-level SSB output for use with the Collins 62S-1 6+2 transverter.

I still have a beautiful homebrew 160 transverter from when I had an S-Line. Fun boatanchor technology project. Mixer->driver-> pair of 6146s. Don't use it any more since the FT-100D covers 160 SSB, and I'm on AM 90% of the time.

[sndtubes]

I remember seeing an advertisement for an adapter that allowed the 75A4 to control the 100V/200V in transceive mode.  Finding one today would be very difficult (and even more expensive) but you could probably build one if you really want that functionality. 

You have a great looking Drake setup and the transmitting converters are very rarely seen.   If you look at the top contest and DX stations of the late 60's/early 70's you will see a lot of Drake 4 line gear for a good reason-it performed extremely well.  I visited some heavy duty contest stations in the 1970's and C lines coupled with Alpha 77 amps were the hot ticket back then.

I think P&H Electronics made an adapter that allowed transceive with another TX and 75A4 but I think it only works on 20 and 80 meters.  Not sure, though.  Actually, transceive isn't really a big deal.  I don't mind zero beating the VFO  As many have pointed out, a valid concern is the stability of the VFO/PTO.  I think that probably this stabilizer would do the trick for most situations:  http://home.comcast.net/~k4dpk/pep_adapter.htm  

Dunno what I'm gonna do, but I'm leaning toward a 20A or a 100V/200V.  The complexity of the 100V/200V scares me a bit, though.  The 20A need no mods for 160, either.  They both are COOL!  I really don't know why I'm so hot on this, I operate 85 percent CW, 10 percent AM and 5 percent SSB, anyway.  I've got 160 AM and CW covered.....just not SSB.

[WQ9E]

Dunno what I'm gonna do, but I'm leaning toward a 20A or a 100V/200V.  The complexity of the 100V/200V scares me a bit, though.  The 20A need no mods for 160, either.  They both are COOL!  I really don't know why I'm so hot on this, I operate 85 percent CW, 10 percent AM and 5 percent SSB, anyway.  I've got 160 AM and CW covered.....just not SSB.

The 100V/200V transmitters are not that difficult to work on.  You will find a bunch of low value electrolytic caps that will all be bad.  There may be a problem with batteries leaking in the limiter module.  There are some different work around procedures if this has happened.  The VFO probably will need cleaning/lubricating.  It takes a couple of hours but it really isn't technically/mechanically challenging so don't let it scare you.  Although the 20A is a nice little rig the 100/200V is really a nicer match for your 75A4.  I restored a 200V a few years ago and use that with a National NC-400.  I also have a 20A/CE VFO/600L paired with a Drake 1-A.  Both CE units have held their alignment quite well for phasing type rigs and have nice audio but having the VFO built in with reasonable power makes the 200V preferable.

[KM1H]

The only problem with the 100V/200V is fighting with audioholes for real TungSol 6550's. Ive heard the imports dont work well or last long at RF. The last NIB matched pairs I sold last year went for close to $400/pair; Im saving a few in case I get the itch for a 100V again to go with the same 75A4 Ive had since 1965 (with 7360 mixers and a lot more).

Carl

[w4fms]

I'm sure the Tung Sol tubes are better quality but I've been using Svetlana 6550's in my 200V for the last 5 years.  No problemo.  Although it's only got "Ranger class" power, it sounds pretty good on AM too.

CE made some nice stuff.  About 2 years ago I actually ran into Wes Shum on 160m who was also running his 200V.  That was a big thrill.  Wish I had the qsl card.

Frank

[sndtubes]

I'd love to have a 200V.  If anyone knows of one for sale, please let me know.  For the time being, I think I've found a Dentron 160 Transverter.  I'm going to try using it with my KWS-1.  That would give me the feel of using my KWS-1 on 160.  I'd still like to find a nice 200V......

As for the Tung Sol  6550's, I'm in the tube business, so no worries there.  I don't normally talk about my business in forums like this because I don't want people to think I'm trolling for money.  I have about 50 or so Tung Sol 6550's in stock plus many more good used ones.  I wouldn't have to worry about that issue.  I'd probably use the Svetlana's in it, anyway.  No need to use a Tung Sol if the others work fine.

Mike WB0SND. 

If anyone is interested, you can find my url by looking at my QRZ page.

[WD5JKO]

I wonder if the New Sensor version of the Tung Sol 6550 is any good in a 100/200V? Also the series has been expanded into KT88, KT90, and most recently the KT120 which boasts a 60 watt Pd..

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=119468

I wonder if the big boy KT120 has any usefulness at RF?

Jim
WD5JKO

[KD6VXI]

From what I've seen, the KT120 is pretty much a GU50.

They where designed for RF.


--Shane

Upon further googling, I guess that's electrically.  Mechanically they are a different story.

The GU50 has a BITCHEN socket, though

[KM1H]

At $90 a pair they better be good!

I wonder if using them in a Viking l or ll at the existing power level would improve anything?

Carl
KM1H