Heathkit manuals and copyright

[k4kyv]

Here's my take on the issue of "copyrighted" Heathkit manuals.

If you own a piece of Heathkit gear, then by rights you also own a copy of the manual that came with it, since that manual was included in the sale of the original kit. Therefore, if the manual got lost or destroyed somewhere along the way, acquiring a new copy is simply replacing what was already paid for with the original purchase, and by implication, passed along with each subsequent sale of the equipment and thus rightfully belongs to the current owner. If that butt-hole who is trying to hoard all the manuals tried to sue you because you caused a manual to be reproduced for the owner of a Heathkit, all you would have to do would be to supply the serial number of the piece of Heathkit equipment, which entitles the owner to a copy of the manual without owing royalty to anyone.

It is extremely unlikely that anyone would ever actually get sued for running off a copy of a manual and e-mailing it or sending it to a friend.  But this should dispel any ethical qualms one might have about copying a manual.

[KX5JT]

This seems very reasonable Don.  Just like if you have bought software.  The CD/DVD/whatever medium it is delivered on is NOT the real purchase.  It's the rights to the information/software.  One can make a copy for oneself because one owns it.  But, like most of these cases, it's doubtful anyone would come after an individual who has made a copy.  They try to target the individual who offers free access to the masses or worse, attempts to make a profit! 

[Jim, W5JO]

After all that business about that company buying the copyrights for Heath manuals a couple of years back, I had a conversation with W7FG over the subject before he died.  He said that 2 people claimed they had the copyrights but none could produce documentation to legally verify that claim.

If you recall DataPro, the current claimant, posted a copy of an agreement signed by a representative of Heathkit.  The document was scant on details and did not list the material purchased.  Heathkit published much more than just manuals for their amateur equipment and the mentioned document does not cover that aspect.

Gary requested documentation of ownership of the amateur manuals from the two claimants and gave it to a copyright lawyer who stated that it would not stand up in court, so Gary continued to sell the manuals.  Along comes DataPro with the claim now and they have sent letters to people who are publishing the manuals.  I do not know if the DataPro owner was one of the people who Gary spoke with.

Given court costs would be expensive most free services like BAMA have ceased to provide them rather than go to court over the subject.  The last I heard Vintage Manuals, Gary's old business, is still selling them and never took them off the website.  I don't know the present owner but I do hope he ignored the claim as Gary did.

[K5UJ]

Too bad Google Books can't just take every manual ever printed and scan them and make them available for free.

[Opcom]

Doesn't he realize most of this stuff was out of the barn over a decade ago and anyone who asks around is going to get it elsewhere for a song? Glad I downloaded everything of interest before he popped up (ever play whackamole?). He does one service though, obligates himself now to provide these things, in a way, even if for a fee. For those unlucky or inept who just can't find them.

prank: list as keywords every heathkit manual there is, on a www page that says "free" and has only a login field that goes nowhere, perhaps after requiring all kinds of "join up" info from the visitor.

There was an article on the internet. It discused how the internet would become shallow due to the freeloaders and "pirates". The writer did not distinguish between the two. I guess he thinks that everyone should charge for everything, and that if they don't, the material should be taken away from them and given to someone who will, before free content ruins the internet.

In any case, I don't know what he meant by "shallow", but he seemed to be more concerned that the limited amount of advertising dollars available to internet "commercial providers of information" would cause a shallowing of paid ("quality") content.  He must be a shill. The article is there, and people have commented asking questions, but he has not responded to any yet.

here is the article.
http://ecnmag.com/Blogs/2010/02/Free-Web-and-Content/

[KC4VWU]

When I first read of this so called "purchase", I was a little irate. After thinking a little, I said "Fine, if he has the original manuscripts and can provide nice, O.E. copies of the manuals for a good price, them I'm in."

Well, now I'm back to thinking this guy is an opportunist scumbag once again. I went to his site to see what was offered. Did you see the legend in the manual section? Very clean - few or no marks from assembly ... Clean - marks from assembly? What freakin' assembly!? COPIES FROM COPIES - this is all there was? Does he have the originals from Heath or not? H3LL!, I have manuals with marks from assembly in them! What a LOSER! BOTTOM FEEDER!

Phil

P.S., if you need Heathkit manuals, go to mods.dk

[k4kyv]

Given court costs would be expensive most free services like BAMA have ceased to provide them rather than go to court over the subject.  The last I heard Vintage Manuals, Gary's old business, is still selling them and never took them off the website.  I don't know the present owner but I do hope he ignored the claim as Gary did.

The pitiful fact is that justice is a commodity that must be purchased for a price.  That allows corporate outfits to bully their way through the system, with the full knowledge that their tactics would never stand up in court, but also with the knowledge that it would be prohibitively expensive for a lowly individual to contest it.

[k4kyv]

Here is the guy. Take it for what it's worth. Legit or not? That is the question.

http://www.d8apro.com/

Press Release October 2008
Data Professionals of Pleasanton California has purchased the Copyrights and existing inventory of all legacy Heathkit product documentation from Heath Company of Benton Harbor Michigan for an undisclosed amount. The new company will make copies of the original legacy manuals available to the marketplace via its web site and through eBay and PayPal.

The real kicker is that the only manuals he is offering for sale is audio stuff, plus a couple of test probes.  No amateur radio equipment manuals are even listed.

This S.O.B. wants to take all the amateur radio manuals and most of the test equipment documentation out of circulation without even offering to sell copies.

http://sc2.vom.com/d8/index.fwx?C=MANUALS

[KC4VWU]

Don,
       He does have a pretty good coverage, 21 pages worth listed. The good stuff starts around page 10. The problem I have with it now that I see what is offered is that he should be able to deliver pristine O.E. manuals if he has went through the trouble of buying copyrights and obtaining the library from Heath. Offering manuals that have assemby notes or poor prints of prior copied materials just tells me that he has somehow amassed a decently sizeable collection of manuals that has been used at consumer level. Not exactly what I would expect Heath to have archived or used as "masters" for their reprints.
       I would suppose that anyone who had done so, claimed copyrights on said materials and sent out threatening emails and letters to the free providers thus driving the demand for said materials way up, could possibly have a workable scheme to turn some really big, quick bucks.
       The whole thing smelled when I investigated it about a year ago, and it still smells awful funny today. Wreaks of SCAM.
       Another scenario to give thought to is that this guy also claims to have worked for Heath and the materials he has could actually be his own library; especially if he was into engineering or quality control. So the assembly notes in the copies he has could very well be his own!
       I'd almost bet dollars to doughnuts he hasn't bought the copyrights to anything.

73, Phil     

[K5UJ]

Buying up manuals, then going after people who want to give them away on-line is sort of like buying up all the car keys in the world then going after hardware stores that make copies.   If the vintage - BA world were entirely composed of rich guys like yacht owners it wouldn't bother me so much but many are retirees on fixed incomes doing restoration as a past-time.   The people in the manual for sale racket should do everyone a favor by putting them out there on-line and find a way to generate income that is respectable.  It's okay to make a good copy and sell that--this is a valuable service and I don't mind paying for a good usable copy since they cost money to reproduce, but to try to bully everyone who puts their own manuals up on-line is sleazy and greedy.   

[WQ9E]

The Manual man (Pete) and Vintage manuals (former W7FG site) still list Heath manual reproductions for sale so if I acquire a piece of Heath gear and need a manual it will certainly be from one of those two vendors.

[K5UJ]

Same here.  I have ordered some large manuals before from W7FG, Kenwood service manuals which were pretty big, and the quality was good for circuit troubleshooting.   The big foldouts were there too and each was comb bound with covers.   I don't mind paying for that.

The Manual man (Pete) and Vintage manuals (former W7FG site) still list Heath manual reproductions for sale so if I acquire a piece of Heath gear and need a manual it will certainly be from one of those two vendors.

[W1RKW]

Here's the purchase agreement.  There's nothing in it to suggest that he has copyrights.
http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/pdf-files/Agreement.pdf

From W3DBJ's website.

Heathkit and Manuals
A company called DataPro, has purchased the RIGHT to print and sell Heathkit legacy manuals. What does this mean for the community? Sadly, it doesn't bode well for us Hams, or the owners of DataPro either.

Don Patterson, the owner of DataPro, has been sending letters to anyone hosting manuals, such as the Boatanchor Manual Archive, BAMA, asking that they take them down, since he is now the owner of Heathkit's intellectual property. However, this is not the case, as Heathkit have not transferred one single solitary copyright to DataPro or Don. The Library of Congress and Copyright Office still show Heathkit as holding the rights for all the publications that have a valid copyright (those published since 1964).

It's important to note that DataPro haven't sent "Cease and Desist" letters, or obtained any Cease and Desist Order against any party, they are simply claiming in a letter that they now own the copyrights.

Two things: Would Heathkit, or anyone else, sell the copyright to their entire catalog for $5,000? And, if DataPro had any legal grounds, why did they not follow through legally, and send a formal Cease and Desist to BAMA?

Don't believe the hype, readers. Don owns nothing but a license to copy on behalf of Heathkit. Nothing more, nothing less. If he thought he was getting the copyrights, he bought a pig in a poke and got nothing but an empty sack.
Posted by W3DBJ at 1:15 PM 0 comments
Tuesday, November 25, 2008


There's more if one Googles keywords: Heathkit Datapro Copyright

[Jim, W5JO]

Your are correct Robert.   What that guy has would not stand up in court.  What happened was after Daystrom bought Heath they moved everything and left the file cabinets with manuals in them sitting.  2 people made off with those cabinets.  I don't know if DataPro was one of them or not.  I do know that one woman and a man made a run at Gary about selling copies. 

Phil those manuals were probably the best in the industry.  After creating a kit and writing the manual they would build it like a ham to see if everything went well.  If it didn't they revised the manual.  So probably every manual kept by Heath would have notes and check marks in them.

The sad thing about BAMA is it is a free service and Ken doesn't want to wind up in court over something like this so he took them down rather than risk the possiblity and expense.  Like Rodger says, buy from Vintage Manuals or Pete if you must buy.  Also, there is nothing to prevent you from making a copy to give to your friends either on paper or electronic.  It is best you do it yourself because any Kinkos or other copy service will refuse if it has a copyright date.  They don't know the specifics of the law and won't run the risk.  If you do, you short Pete or Vintage Manuals

[KA2QFX]

From what I read: "...all of the Seller's right, title and interest in and to all of the assets and the business owned by the Seller, related to the Seller's product line known as Heathkit's Legacy Manual Duplication and Distribution."

"all rights, title and interest" seems pretty clear to me. Why would you assume these "rights" to be exclusive of any copyright? And even if the copyright were still held by Heathkit, it's pretty clear that Heathkit has the authority to confer upon DataPro the SOLE right to copy and distribute regardless of which actually holds the copyright.

Understand I'm not defending the guy. I think the whole thing stinks. But we all have rights, including the right to be an a*^($%e.

Mark

[Opcom]

this huge stink is why we should scan and post whatever manuals we get (no matter how obscure), so that at least they will get into the community before some other greedyclapper comes along claiming to own all of that too.

If I were buying copyrights, I would want it stated explicitly, and not simply covered by rights title and interest. Those things could apply only to what was contained within the physical property that was part of the deal, leaving it open to some discussion as it seems to be presently. I think the wording invites a disagreement or discussion.