The Toyota's Corps. sudden Acceleration Problems still unresolved.

[W2XR]

Forgive if you can, but never forget!

As the old saying goes: "F... me once shame on you, F... me twice shame on me!"

OR even better put: "He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it."

                                         The Slab Bacon  (I drive a Ford.)

Well stated on all points, Frank. Too bad many people harbor an undying grudge against others for perceived or actual wrongs committed against them. It will destroy you on the inside. There was a very great man who 2000 years ago strongly advocated forgiving your enemies.

That happens to be a classic quote from the early part of the 20th century. It was written by George Satayana, and went something like this:

"Those who forget the past are comdemned to relive it".

Truer words were never spoken.

And we have two Toyotas and love them.

73,

Bruce

[W3RSW]

I see GM has 1.2 million recalls for defective steering.

-wonder if they'll go before themselves for a congressional hearing?

-wonder if any media will even notice?

maybe the CEO and President of USA (CFO) ought to go before the Japanese to eat crow, hmmm?

[W2XR]

I see GM has 1.2 million recalls for defective steering.

-wonder if they'll go before themselves for a congressional hearing?

-wonder if any media will even notice?

maybe the CEO and President of USA (CFO) ought to go before the Japanese to eat crow, hmmm?

I seem to remember when the head of a Japanese corporation would commit seppuku (or perhaps it was hari kiri) when under his watch, his company was responsible for some issue of egregious or significant negative impact, be it financial or otherwise. In the Japanese culture, it was the honorable thing to do, and the ultimate act of apology and demonstration of remorse to those who had been affected.

I don't think that is going to happen with Toyoda-san, President of the company.

73,

Bruce

[The Slab Bacon]

Thatz wierd, Bruce. I actually had the same thought. It would go on to prove whether those "crocodile tears" were real or not.


Or even better yet................ As the Godfather said to Michael Corleone:

"Keepa you friends close, but keepa you enemies closer!"

[WA1GFZ]

My Daughter has a new G5 so I jumped on this first thing this morning. The problem is after 20 to 30K miles there have been a few cases where it becomes hard to steer the car but there is not a loss of control. So it looks like GM is not going to need to go to congress. Toilet-oder BSed the public for years on their problem. The floor mat excuse is a good one. One of the guys I work with can't even get his out of the car.
Unfree trade I bet there are only a few GM cars in Japan.

[W3RSW]

Yeah your right Frank.  Hi inport tariff on US cars and all that.  But since Japan and South Korea make comparable or better cars in fit, finish and value, our cars probably aren't desired much in the Orient, unless you're talkin' vintage Caddys, Ponies and Harlies.

Those get bid up over there like hot Collins'.

[WA1GFZ]

My 1996 Pontiac still looks good and runs fine
My 88 truck ran fine until it was smashed in 2001
my 2001 silverado has 120K and has had no real work done on it
Still goes 5K on a quart of oil

[K5WLF]

My '93 Dodge Dakota (180K on it), in the shop today for a new thermostat and temp sensor. First time in the shop since I paid a grand for it five years ago. Only have put brakes and tires on it in 5 years. And regular oil changes.

[flintstone mop]

I see GM has 1.2 million recalls for defective steering.

-wonder if they'll go before themselves for a congressional hearing?

-wonder if any media will even notice?

maybe the CEO and President of USA (CFO) ought to go before the Japanese to eat crow, hmmm?

An electric power steering pump???


And Japan...............We've got a deal for you. Remember that island you want the US to vacate?

[Jim KF2SY]

Sho' nuff, the band-aid fixes are NOT working....
as another poster alluded to, the hardware guys will blame software, the software guys will blame
hardware, alot of you know that song and dance..........bottom line is that as of now, they don't have a clue to the root cause

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_no_fix/print

Did auto manufacturers ban lead from solder as per Europes decree?  Can't wait for the tin whiskers in a couple of years.   Glad NASA told everybody to shove it and is still using leaded solder.  They have exspensive hardware and lives to worry about.

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm

[WA1GFZ]

I heard on the news this morning. 15 people with the magic shim still have problems.

[W3RSW]

Heard dat too.
But I take most news with a grain of salt these days. 
a.) people taking much more notice now that their "ears are tuned".
b.) lawyers and money to be made.

If true, then will be tres interessant.

[W1RKW]

got to love digital, not. 

Take cellphones for example.  I didn't give up my analog phone until the phone company told me they would no longer support it on their system.  Went to a digital and granted they have a lot of features, most of them completely useless to me. In additon, the sound quality rots.  Either the audio is there, or it's not unlike analog where one could still hear another over the "static" and no aliasing when traffic is heavy. Point being, software is only as good as its design. 

Toyota is not capitulating to that, at least in public.

[flintstone mop]

Whatever it's worth........MSNBC is reporting something about a blackbox in Toyotas

Fred

[K5WLF]

got to love digital, not. 

Take cellphones for example.  I didn't give up my analog phone until the phone company told me they would no longer support it on their system.  Went to a digital and granted they have a lot of features, most of them completely useless to me. In additon, the sound quality rots.  Either the audio is there, or it's not unlike analog where one could still hear another over the "static" and no aliasing when traffic is heavy. Point being, software is only as good as its design. 

Toyota is not capitulating to that, at least in public.

I'm with you on that. I sure miss my old analog bag phone. It sat on the doghouse in the van and with an antenna on the roof had a magnificent range. Yep, the signal level would drop and the S/N ratio would get crappy when I was out in the sticks so far I didn't get the Grand Ol' Opry 'til Thursday, but I could still talk and listen and communicate. Damn 3G iPhone...I love all the features, but when the digital signal level reaches the point where the unit goes into "F&#@ It Mode", I'm not talking to anybody but myself. It just disconnects. Newfangled ain't always better.

ldb
K5WLF

[Bill, KD0HG]

Posted: 03/04/2010 06:39:16 PM MST

Shirt happens...

----------------

ARLINGTON, Wash.—State troopers said a man is lucky to have only minor injuries when he crashed his car into a barn after his steering wheel popped off while driving. Trooper Keith Leary said the 59-year-old man was driving his 1978 Buick on Thursday afternoon on State Route 530 when his steering wheel came off, the car left the road, went down an embankment, up the other side, and crashed into a barn.

The man narrowly missed a power pole and several small barns with baby cows inside.

Rescuers said it's a miracle the man suffered only minor neck pain in the accident. The farm's owner said the car destroyed the farm's refrigeration and milking area and happened right as 140 cows were about to be milked.

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/watercooler/ci_14515127#ixzz0hGuPn2UG

[k4kyv]

Did auto manufacturers ban lead from solder as per Europes decree?  Can't wait for the tin whiskers in a couple of years.  

Interesting, if tin wiskers turns out to be the cause of Toiletota's troubles.  If so, expect cars by other manufacturers soon to follow.

In the 70's and 80's I wore out three Corollas and never had a major problem with any of them till they firally crapped out.  Always did my own repair work back then.  Actually, I did have one major problem: a cracked head on the 1500 CC overhead cam engine.  I went to a junkyard and found a replacement head. Just bought a new head gasket and slapped the replacement head into place without even disassembling and inspecting the valve assembly.  That was at 113k and drove the thing to something like 190k before it drew its last breath. It was running on 3 cylinders and finally wouldn't start so I sold it for $25, and I'll be damned if the guys who bought it didn't manage to get it started and drove it away.

I did get a recall notice on one.  The problem was with the automatic choke disintegrating from corrosion.  But by then I had already replaced the automatic choke with a homebrew manual choke made out of junk parts, and liked it much better than the automatic choke anyway. I tossed the recall notice.

[Jim KF2SY]

I did a few quick searches yesterday, they (Toyota) and others are looking at everything from tin whiskers to Dc relays with no back emf protection discharge diodes.   The latter could cause transients which in turn could cause latch-ups, etc.   Still not sure if the auto manufacturers all went to lead free solder after (2006 ?), but I think they did.   If so, in a few years, this could be the dawn of a golden age for trial attorneys.

Did auto manufacturers ban lead from solder as per Europes decree?  Can't wait for the tin whiskers in a couple of years.  

Interesting, if tin wiskers turns out to be the cause of Toiletota's troubles.  If so, expect cars by other manufacturers soon to follow.

In the 70's and 80's I wore out three Corollas and never had a major problem with any of them till they firally crapped out.  Always did my own repair work back then.  Actually, I did have one major problem: a cracked head on the 1500 CC overhead cam engine.  I went to a junkyard and found a replacement head. Just bought a new head gasket and slapped the replacement head into place without even disassembling and inspecting the valve assembly.  That was at 113k and drove the thing to something like 190k before it drew its last breath. It was running on 3 cylinders and finally wouldn't start so I sold it for $25, and I'll be damned if the guys who bought it didn't manage to get it started and drove it away.

I did get a recall notice on one.  The problem was with the automatic choke disintegrating from corrosion.  But by then I had already replaced the automatic choke with a homebrew manual choke made out of junk parts, and liked it much better than the automatic choke anyway. I tossed the recall notice.

[K3ZS]

DC relays will drive solid state electronics crazy.   A few years ago I got my first modern HF transceiver, an IC-718.    I was keying the old linear with a 12V relay.    The Icom frequently would change bands after transmitting.    I thought it was defective.  I added a reverse diode across the coil and a series diode on the key line and that fixed the problem.    I would think Toyota engineers would be smart enough to use transient protection on their relays.  They could be underrated in PIV and fail.

[flintstone mop]

DC relays will drive solid state electronics crazy.   A few years ago I got my first modern HF transceiver, an IC-718.    I was keying the old linear with a 12V relay.    The Icom frequently would change bands after transmitting.    I thought it was defective.  I added a reverse diode across the coil and a series diode on the key line and that fixed the problem.    I would think Toyota engineers would be smart enough to use transient protection on their relays.  They could be underrated in PIV and fail.

You know what's really wrong?? Most designers and engineers are forgetting the basics of electronics and RF. It's turned out to be a rubber stamp world of assembly, cutting costs to bring those bonuses in,  and the output is shawdy products that have weird failure problems.

And Bill a 1978 car, needs maintenance performed that would be overlooked during normal service time. The integrity of the frame and structure and weird stuff like steering wheels coming loose. Prolly should be in the salvage yard.

My wife drives a 1997 Regal with 114,000 mi.......she was complaining about the steering wheel turning while the vehicle was stopped and while driving, the vehicle was wondering all over the road. I thought she was on drugs about the steering wheel turning on its own when stopped until I drove it one day. It was worth repairing, but cost $575..00 for a steering rack ASSY. I told her I NEVER had a car ever do that, but it can happen in these older vehicles with miles on them.

Fred

[KB2WIG]

I friene was driving his VW bug, and the stearing wheel fell into his lap. He said that he had a brown moment untill he discovered that the cable was still conected and he could steer.

he got it fixed.


great off road car in mud; you and yer buddies can pick 'er up and move her when she sticks in the mud.
And you doen't even have to remove the empties to lighten the load.

klc

[Jim KF2SY]

This professor from Carnegie Mellon has been doing some digging....
check out the missing diodes from the relay circuits on 2007 Camry's...

http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~raj/toyota.html

 

DC relays will drive solid state electronics crazy.   A few years ago I got my first modern HF transceiver, an IC-718.    I was keying the old linear with a 12V relay.    The Icom frequently would change bands after transmitting.    I thought it was defective.  I added a reverse diode across the coil and a series diode on the key line and that fixed the problem.    I would think Toyota engineers would be smart enough to use transient protection on their relays.  They could be underrated in PIV and fail.

[W1RKW]

My first car was a 69 VW bug.  The steering gear failed and locked up the steering. I was traveling down a straight section of I-395 here in CT when the steering locked up. Fortunately it locked in just slightly to the right and in light traffic and I was able to pull the car over without crashing it.

I friene was driving his VW bug, and the stearing wheel fell into his lap. He said that he had a brown moment untill he discovered that the cable was still conected and he could steer.

he got it fixed.


great off road car in mud; you and yer buddies can pick 'er up and move her when she sticks in the mud.
And you doen't even have to remove the empties to lighten the load.

klc

[w3jn]

The throttle motor is also inductive, and presumably is driven by a transistor.  If that transistor shorts, it could conceivably drive the throttle motor to the full open position.

I would guess that Toyota has a lot smarter engineers on staff than I, and that they've considered this situation.  However if they cheap out on the back EMF diodes, who knows....

[K3ZS]

This professor from Carnegie Mellon has been doing some digging....
check out the missing diodes from the relay circuits on 2007 Camry's...

http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~raj/toyota.html

 

The professor article shows that the Buick Lacrosse uses resistors across the relay coils.   He states that diodes would be better, but they shorten the life of the relays.   I can't see how suppressing microsecond duration pulses would shorten the life of relays.   The Toyota he checked out had no suppressors across the relay coils.