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Tube ID lineup




 
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K5UJ
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« on: October 31, 2009, 02:53:13 PM »

Okay, I have some tubes here that came from a local bc station.  I lined them up and took a photo (my cheap crummy camera didn't do a very good job, sorry about that) so I hope they can be identified because the numbers burned off the glass except for two.  I know you guys use these a lot but as a newbie I am guessing 4-250, 4-125 but don't know for sure.  The ones on each end I have identified because the numbers are still on them and readable.  The one on the far left is a 4-500.  On the far right a 7527A (which I think is like a 4-400).  The three in the middle I don't know for sure.

Thanks

Rob


* tubelineup.jpg (156.29 KB, 1045x557 - viewed 523 times.)
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 02:59:25 PM »

The one next to the right one looks like a 4-250 to me.  The 4-250 is identical in size to a 4-400, but has a cylindrical plate with no additional vanes or ribs projecting out from the cylinder.  

The other two look taller than 4-250s, not sure what they are.  If they have the same height bulb, maybe 4-250s, hard to tell from the photo.

Definitely not a 4-125.  The 4-125 is much smaller.  It uses the same socket, but I do not believe it has the metal ring around the base.
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Rick / W8KHK  ex WB2HKX, WB4GNR
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 05:57:10 PM »

Rob,

I believe the two middle ones are 4-250's although Amperex has one that is basically a "4-200" rating wise that looks the same to me as a 4-250; my Viking 500 came with one.  I believe the one next to your 4-500 is another 4-400.

I picked up a box of 4-500 pulls cheap at a hamfest a few years ago; neat tubes but they require 10 volts (they use a 100 watt cathode structure) and the 4-250/4-400 chimney won't fit.  I also have a couple of NOS 4X500A tubes waiting for future use but they require an unusual socket.

The 4-125 does use a metal base ring but is much smaller than the 4-250/4-400 members of the family.  The 4-65 does not have the metal shell around the base assembly and it normally doesn't require forced air cooling.

Rodger WQ9E
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K5UJ
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 06:32:05 PM »

Thanks Rick and Rodger,

I should not have posted my question without a better picture.  It is unreasonable of me to expect information when I can't even provide a clear detailed photo.   The one up now was taken with a flash and I should have known better, that the flash would bounce off the glass and obscure everything.   I will attempt a photo without the flash while I wait for the trick or treaters who so far are MIA.

73

Rob
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 06:57:37 PM »

Okay as a followup here is what I hope will be a more useful photo.  Same order as before left to right so the previous description applies.  Also the dollar bill I included before shows up now to give a size frame of reference.

Rob



* tubelineup2.jpg (221.74 KB, 1152x619 - viewed 490 times.)
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 08:02:02 PM »

from Eimac:

4-125 - 5.69" L and 2.72" D

4-250A 6.38" L and 3.56" D

4-400A 6.38" L and 3.56" D

4-500A 7.00" L and 3.56" D

From Penta:

4-400AX/7527A


from internet:

4-400B/7527A


I'm guessing 4-500, 4-400, 4-250, 4-250, 7527
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K5UJ
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 10:11:31 PM »

Okay thanks; I measured them and I don't think I have any 4-125, by measuring it looks like maybe the two in the middle with the smaller plates are maybe 4-250 and the one on the left next to the 4-500 could be a 4-400?  I should go to google images and type in tube numbers and look, duh.  I wish I had thought of that earlier.  Oh well. Roll Eyes

Rob
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 10:24:35 PM »

L-R Look like:  Eimac or GE/RCA 4-500, Amperex QY4-400, Amperex QY4-250, 4-250, Graphite plate 4-400C?

73,  Jack, W9GT
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 10:36:09 PM »

L-R Look like:  Eimac or GE/RCA 4-500, Amperex QY4-400, Amperex QY4-250, 4-250, Graphite plate 4-400C?

73,  Jack, W9GT

Jack I think u right, I went away and looked at photos on google.  the thing that was throwing me was the plate structure but after looking at photos on google I began to think that Eimac and Amperex used different plate designs; looks like Amperex used the cylinder plate on the 4-400 so the three in the middle L-R are amperex 4-400, then a amperex 4-250 and an eimac 4-250.

The one all the way over on the right is an Amperex 7527A and you nailed the one way over on the left.  the Eimac 250 may be bad--something rattles when I turn it upside down  Sad

Guess Halloween over by now; time to take in the pumpkin.  had 6 kids come by this time; not bad for my neighborhood.

Rob
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 10:59:32 PM »

me thinks the one on the left is a 4-500. 10 volt filament if is that. If you have a know eimac 4-400 the 4-500 will be taller as pointed out where on post has the length posted as 
7.00.
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 09:10:40 AM »

The one on the right could be a 5867 or a TB3/750 if its a triode. Common modulator tube.

Carl
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 09:26:03 AM »

Quote
The one on the right could be a 5867 or a TB3/750 if its a triode. Common modulator tube.

I agree, if it was thought that it could be a 5868 it would be larger than the one shown and would have pins exactly the same size as a 4-1000.

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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 02:52:38 PM »

Scrounging for scrapped/surplus industrial power generators and shake tables that used 5868's was one way I used to score cheap 4-1000A sockets.

Carl
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 08:13:30 PM »

The one on the right could be a 5867 or a TB3/750 if its a triode. Common modulator tube.


one way over on the right is a 7527A, a tetrode made by Amperex.   Interestingly it has no base.
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 09:26:23 PM »

Amperex was big into the no base tubes (I think it started with the AX-9903 in the late 40's which morphed into the 5894) and had alternatives to some Eimacs that had better VHF performance such as their version of the 4-125A. I wonder how the 7527A compares to the 4-250A or 4-400A?

Eimac even copied that graphite plate in their first 3-500Z's.

Carl
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2009, 06:54:02 AM »

All I know is that when I search 7527A in tube vendor websites or look at lists of them for sale when I get to 7527A they always say See 4-400A, some say B, as if they are a substitute.  My Chinese knockoff 3-500ZGs from rf parts have plates that look like the 7527A in the photo.  While it's good to know the baseless tube is intentional, I would be nervous about plugging it in and pulling it.  I guess you have to be sure to apply only vertical pushing and pulling.

Rob
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 10:24:19 AM »

Quote
I would be nervous about plugging it in and pulling it.

Me too, especially in the morning. Grin Grin

You would think a socket for those baseless tubes would have a set screw arrangement to tighten them up. Yes I know it would be impractical but I guess they were designed to have a cycle life of two. Plug it in and when it fails, pull it out.
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2009, 10:33:12 AM »

Heathkit and Eimac had some reported issues with builders of the SB-220 damaging the tubes inserting them into the included Johnson produced sockets.  My SB-220 (I built it in 1976) came with an errata sheet warning to carefully push tubes straight in without rocking them.  The Eimac 3-500Z's shipped with the amp have a small ceramic plate mounted slightly below the base seal to further reinforce this area and probably to allow for better seal cooling.  The tubes cartons also contained an additional warning sheet on the dangers of Beryllium Oxide although I doubt that is what was used for the additional ceramic plate-but in any case I was very careful with them.

I have never had a problem with any of the "baseless" transmitting tubes but it does seem likely that the seals are subject to damage-especially on those transmitting tubes with thick pins which won't easily bend like miniature receiving tubes when inserted improperly.
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2009, 12:08:02 PM »

The Europeans started that graphite plate style at Thompson I believe. Eimac used it for a very short time and Amperex used it in all their 3-400Z and 3-500Z which were built at various European plants.

Ive never seen a ceramic based 3-500Z. Eimac used a base that looks to be a mica style as used on plug in coil forms. It does limit VHF performance so I dont know if they made it both ways in later years.

To remove any 3-500 or 3-400 grab the tube with both hands and pull straight up while wiggling a tiny bit to release the socket spring pressure.

That berrilium warning is packed with all tubes whether they containt any or not courtesy of the shylock department.

Carl
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2009, 01:28:26 PM »

Carl,

It could certainly be mica.  It is close to a standard bakelite color.  It was time to blow the dust out of the 220 so I took a couple of shots of one of the tubes while it was out.  Although it doesn't get as much use as in the past it still works fine and is on its original over 30 year old tubes.  During the 70's, 80's, and early 90's it got a lot of contest use and I am very happy with the tube life.

Rodger WQ9E


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* 3-500zb.JPG (190.54 KB, 683x1024 - viewed 386 times.)
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 11:32:41 PM »

The Europeans started that graphite plate style at Thompson I believe. Eimac used it for a very short time and Amperex used it in all their 3-400Z and 3-500Z which were built at various European plants.


Yep I looked at the baseless Amperex 7527A and it says Made in France.

rob
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2009, 08:32:00 PM »

Here is the original Eimac 3-500Z, graphite plate and all. There have been stories that Amperex built that version in Europe until Eimac could get production rolling on the tantalum plate version to meet promised delivery dates. Ive had several pass thru here over the years.

http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/088/3/3-500Z.pdf

Carl
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« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »

I've seen that data sheet before. It has some info the newer datasheets do not. Looks at the IMD for 1500 volts on the plate!
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« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 11:22:10 PM »

I've seen that data sheet before. It has some info the newer datasheets do not. Looks at the IMD for 1500 volts on the plate!

Ya gotta love the 3-500--Thanx Carl for posting that link--that's the most detailed information I have seen yet on the 3-500.  I have had my pair 3 500 amp for a few years, I toyed with the idea of getting a ceramic tube amp (3cx800 pair) when I had some dumb idea the 3 500s weren't "good enough" then came to my senses and saved a lot of money.  20 w. grid dissipation and yes the IMD spec you mentioned Steve, then there's the 200 C max base seal temp (and I was worried about cooling mine however mine aren't Eimacs).  Interesting also are the parts about  use in class C and class B modulators.

Rob K5UJ
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