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Cut your ARRL membership cost in half, with QEX only, no QST Yea !




 
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Author Topic: Cut your ARRL membership cost in half, with QEX only, no QST Yea !  (Read 85170 times)
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K1DEU
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« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2009, 10:29:30 PM »

  Well I just got my "Dear John" so the boys at the ARRL won and changed my subscription agreement.

letter dated July 16 from Amy, KB1NXO

Basically  follows;

Upon reviewing your membership application on 7/13  I found the option I extended to you is only available to legally blind members.

blah  blah Orgs  bylaws state

As a result its necessary that I modify your application. etc.

I am sorry for the inconvenience  Thanks  Amy


Well the rich and famous boys reversed the agreement, but it took them three, unhappy days.  And so I will read my amateur News here on AMfone and on the Internet, without tying up the post man. Sadly the financial future for America is very set in stone for the coming two years. 73, John

P.S. Last time I checked the membership is up.  But the # of 3 year QST renewals is down which should be the  important issue !
 
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KF1Z
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« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2009, 07:21:45 AM »

In other words John....

Next time, keep it to yourself....

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w3jn
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« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2009, 07:46:54 AM »

Indeed.  The "helpful" inquiries to the League president probably torpedoed this.
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« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2009, 11:08:17 AM »

I think you could safely change the 'probably' to 'undoubtedly'. Wink

When I saw you being lectured and scolded John by someone who, compared to your time in and knowledge of amateur radio is a mere infant, I knew it wasn't going to end well. Sad but true, now and then a newb comes along who thinks that buying credibility is as easy as buying a life membership. So seeing an old vet like yourself actually negotiate a better deal and diminish that achievement, well....that's gotta be tough to swallow when they're so sure that their view is the 'proper' view. You just know those folks from the League got a self-righteous earful. As in life, sometimes it's just easier to give a child what it wants to stop the kicking and screaming.

Thanks for trying at least, and for sharing your results here. KF1Z is right on the money.
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« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2009, 12:07:32 PM »

Todd as a parent I can add. if you give a baby what it wants it never stops kicking and screaming. You should give a baby what it needs though.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2009, 01:26:09 PM »

As a parent, I would tell my children to stay away from the ARRL.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2009, 07:08:07 AM »

Really..?...I don't think it's as bad as that, There might be a coupla people in there I despise But..that's a personal thing...on a personal professional level......

Look Man you gots to pay like everybody else...Chump....LOL Cheesy So get in Line Jackson...LOL....Besides there's a Higher essence from the 4th level that tells me there's some groovey changes comen...man...better ani up ......


73
Jack.

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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2009, 08:17:24 AM »

I cut my ARRL membership cost to zero.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2009, 09:51:44 AM »

Hi Tom,

Changes are coming Hang on man.. Wink

73
Jack.
 
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2009, 10:02:51 AM »

As a parent, I would tell my children to stay away from the ARRL.


Yea,...But you will guide everyone to the AM Web Page they carry for you and plastered with your name all over it. Must be nice to talk smack about something and stand back and groove on your sponsored web page and I noticed some of the Info you have to be a member to access...AM is sponsored very nicely on the Web Sight Nice of the caretakers to allow that.... I wouldn't mind a bit any of my children reading the web sight or even joining if they want.

73
Jack..


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k4kyv
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« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2009, 10:50:17 AM »

Amateur radio has always been evolving. Back in the 40's, 50's and 60's, many kids wanted to become engineers. The dawn of the Sputnik era, I believe, even accelerated going down that road. By the late 70's and 80's, computer costs were coming way down and computers were finding their way into homes and amateur radio stations. In today's world, you build a box with some electronics for a ham radio task. Write some software to make it do something. When you want the box to do something else, you don't build a new box, you write new software. QEX targets those people who want build unique boxes, unique software, developing or expanding on theoretical type ideas, and the sharing of those types of ideas. I would classify the QEX membership as a technically savvy "specialty group" that is constantly moving forward. Some may not know this, but Flex Radio was born on a series of QEX articles back in 2002/2003.

I believe the original intent of QEX was to publish esoteric technical articles that would have been of very little to QST readers and the overall ham community.  A perfect example of that would be going into the minute details of writing SDR software.  But scanning over some of articles listed in the promos for the publication, I see a recent series on improving the efficiency of vertical antennas, elevated vs buried radial ground systems, etc. Also, I believe I saw reference to a homebrew amplifier project not too long ago.  Those are just the kinds of articles that should be of interest to the greater ham community and that used to appear in QST.  I recall the first articles ever published on wideband untuned solid state amplifiers, now the staple of riceboxes, appeared in QST sometime in the mid 70's with detailed theory and construction procedures down to homebrewing the broadband input and output transformers. Now, members are deprived of that type of article and limited mostly to fluff and stuff like outboard transceiver microphone gain boxes, station control consoles, simple antenna projects (and how to camouflage them from nosy neighbours), QRP CW rigs built into a cat-food tin, etc, unless they pay extra for a QEX subscription.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2009, 11:28:16 AM »

Maybe You Should run for office Don,..you have plenty of time being retired...it's the only way making any dents with these situations..standing back and throwing rocks don't do shit...Run for Office OM...

73
Jack.

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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2009, 01:16:53 PM »

LOL. It was a joke.

Feel free to volunteer to work on the AM TIS page. As someone posted, "standing back and throwing rocks don't do shit."


As a parent, I would tell my children to stay away from the ARRL.


Yea,...But you will guide everyone to the AM Web Page they carry for you and plastered with your name all over it. Must be nice to talk smack about something and stand back and groove on your sponsored web page and I noticed some of the Info you have to be a member to access...AM is sponsored very nicely on the Web Sight Nice of the caretakers to allow that.... I wouldn't mind a bit any of my children reading the web sight or even joining if they want.

73
Jack..



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ka3zlr
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« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2009, 01:54:06 PM »

Oh a Joke, Yea...I guess....




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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2009, 02:43:49 PM »

As I have said so many times before, when Don brings up the QEX issue, if you want just technical articles, buy a subscription to QEX.  As QST is part of membership, there is no subscription to get it. It's designed to appeal to the vast majority of the membership, not just to the techie groupies. That change started almost 30 years ago as technologies, people, amateur radio, and a lot of other things continue to evolve. This dead horse has been beat so many times, it's been reduced to powder.

Technical Articles over the last several months in QST: The Quick and Easy Balloon Assisted Low Band Loop Antenna, Building a 1927 Regenerative Receiver, Resurrecting a Command Set Transmitter, Designing and Building Transistor Linear Power Amplifiers, A Better Way to Work Low Earth Orbit FM Satellites, Building a Five Band G3TXQ Broadband Hexagonal Beam, Hairpin Tuners for Matching Balanced Antenna Systems, The No Excuses 160 Meter Vertical, Build a Homebrew Radio Telescope, A Modular Receiver for Exploring the LF/VLF Bands, The Universal Keying Module, Experimenter's RF Spectrum Analyzer, etc., etc., etc.

If you want QEX Don, pony up the $24, if you're an ARRL member (saves you $12 over the non-member price). Let this poor horse rest in peace.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2009, 03:28:04 PM »

As QST is part of membership, there is no subscription to get it. It's designed to appeal to the vast majority of the membership, not just to the techie groupies. That change started almost 30 years ago as technologies, people, amateur radio, and a lot of other things continue to evolve.

If you want QEX Don, pony up the $24, if you're an ARRL member (saves you $12 over the non-member price).

Actually, you are paying $31 for the QST subscription.  Membership without QST is $8, available to the legally blind and additional family members when one issue is already shipped to the mailing address. $30-$35 is about on par with any other monthly magazine of that size.  Despite all the ads, they still don't just give away QST free for the taking.  They would charge more for non-QST membership dues if $8 didn't fully cover the costs of  membership services. 

You are really paying for membership dues plus a magazine subscription, combined.  I just don't find the magazine useful or worthwhile any more, since it has few articles of real interest to me, and the amateur radio news is stale by the time the magazine arrives; rarely do I see a news item reported in QST, that I hadn't already become fully aware of weeks earlier via the internet (another thing that has changed during the past 30 years).  And the Ham-Ads are hardly even a shadow of what they used to be before ePay and other internet buy/sell opportunities became mainstream. 

ARRL membership would be a much better deal without the damned magazine.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2009, 04:00:31 PM »

Pete posted as one of the recent QST articles:
"Build a Homebrew Radio Telescope"

That sounds like an interesting article.  Possibly a satellite dish pointed skyward with a 10 ghz receiver?  Hear the noise of the sun and galaxy.

But, I'll bet it gets old fast, unlike visual astronomy.


T
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And, nothing like an old dog.
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« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2009, 05:02:16 PM »

As QST is part of membership, there is no subscription to get it. It's designed to appeal to the vast majority of the membership, not just to the techie groupies. That change started almost 30 years ago as technologies, people, amateur radio, and a lot of other things continue to evolve.

If you want QEX Don, pony up the $24, if you're an ARRL member (saves you $12 over the non-member price).

Actually, you are paying $31 for the QST subscription.  Membership without QST is $8, available to the legally blind and additional family members when one issue is already shipped to the mailing address. $30-$35 is about on par with any other monthly magazine of that size.  Despite all the ads, they still don't just give away QST free for the taking.  They would charge more for non-QST membership dues if $8 didn't fully cover the costs of  membership services. 

You are really paying for membership dues plus a magazine subscription, combined.  I just don't find the magazine useful or worthwhile any more, since it has few articles of real interest to me, and the amateur radio news is stale by the time the magazine arrives; rarely do I see a news item reported in QST, that I hadn't already become fully aware of weeks earlier via the internet (another thing that has changed during the past 30 years).  And the Ham-Ads are hardly even a shadow of what they used to be before ePay and other internet buy/sell opportunities became mainstream. 

ARRL membership would be a much better deal without the damned magazine.

Amusing reply. Actually, if you took the time to review the actual membership form, it does indicate that $15 of your yearly membership dues goes towards QST (not $31). Obviously, a  legality blind person probably cannot partake, or easily partake, of all the membership benefits that are offered beyond the monthly journal, especially on their web site,  which is probably why their fee is only $8.

Personally, joining a membership like the ARRL, is not like buying a car or a radio. Your membership "dues" helps to support all their activities as related to our amateur radio hobby. To request a better "deal" is silly. Your best bet for deals is at the flea markets where vendors are looking to unload something.

I'm a member of AARP. Each month, as part of membership, they send me a magazine. I very rarely will read it although I do scan the table of contents before I throw it out. I didn't join AARP for the magazine. I joined because of all the support, information, and benefits they provide for me in my age group. To me, the membership dues is well worth the pay back I get from them. I view ARRL membership the same way.

For the most part, Grandpa's radios and magazines are history. But like old photographs, you can pull them down off the shelf from time to time, and reminisce the "good old days".
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k4kyv
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« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2009, 08:12:23 PM »

Amusing reply. Actually, if you took the time to review the actual membership form, it does indicate that $15 of your yearly membership dues goes towards QST (not $31). Obviously, a  legality blind person probably cannot partake, or easily partake, of all the membership benefits that are offered beyond the monthly journal, especially on their web site,  which is probably why their fee is only $8.

Since membership dues and QST subscription are inseparably a package deal, they can call it anything they want.  They could say that membership dues are $38/year and QST is an added bonus for $1/year.  Or they could say that a year's subscription to QST, which has more pages and better binding, is $36.95, the same as for CQ Magazine, and that dues are $2.05/month.


Quote
I'm a member of AARP. Each month, as part of membership, they send me a magazine. I very rarely will read it although I do scan the table of contents before I throw it out. I didn't join AARP for the magazine. I joined because of all the support, information, and benefits they provide for me in my age group. To me, the membership dues is well worth the pay back I get from them. I view ARRL membership the same way.

Now that you mentioned AARP, I am also a member.  I get two periodicals for my membership.  One is a slick magazine while the other is more like a newspaper tabloid.  Why couldn't the League do like AARP, if all their periodical data is too much to carry in monthly QST alone?  QST could carry all the ads just as it does now, along with ARRL news and happenings, K1ZZ's monthly editorial, the Correspondence section, the division director and vice-director information, as well as important amateur radio news.  Then the member/subscriber would have a choice of secondary publication, oriented towards technical topics, contesting or beginners (in the spirit of the old Ham Radio Horizons).  Each member would be entitled to one of these publications of his choice at no extra cost, and for a nominal extra fee each, could choose to subscribe to one or both of the others.

Quote
For the most part, Grandpa's radios and magazines are history. But like old photographs, you can pull them down off the shelf from time to time, and reminisce the "good old days".

It is not just I who is beating the dead horse.  The topic of the thread, started by K1DEU, is specifically regarding ARRL membership without QST.

In the August issue of QST, a letter appears in the Correspondence section by K6VGO, and I have to give the editors credit for publishing it.  He refers to a recent complaint that most articles in QST are "quite technical, almost requiring a strong electronics understanding", and he then asks "isn't this what used to separate hams from CBers?"  He then goes on to say that he  feels that QST is "the least of the technical publications" and that he found that complaint to be "humorous".

This same topic is also running in a current thread on QRZ.com.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=211561
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2009, 09:39:32 PM »

If they wanted, they could put ALL the sections and articles from both QST and QEX on the Web with a pay as you read menu. Sure would save all those printing costs.
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« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2009, 11:23:44 PM »

Amusing reply. Actually, if you took the time to review the actual membership form, it does indicate that $15 of your yearly membership dues goes towards QST (not $31). Obviously, a  legality blind person probably cannot partake, or easily partake, of all the membership benefits that are offered beyond the monthly journal, especially on their web site,  which is probably why their fee is only $8.

Since membership dues and QST subscription are inseparably a package deal, they can call it anything they want.  They could say that membership dues are $38/year and QST is an added bonus for $1/year.  Or they could say that a year's subscription to QST, which has more pages and better binding, is $36.95, the same as for CQ Magazine, and that dues are $2.05/month.

I was responding to your statement, "you are paying $31 for the QST subscription". You keep calling it a subscription. There is no subscription to QST. If you stop your membership, all your membership privileges, including QST stop.


Quote
Quote
I'm a member of AARP. Each month, as part of membership, they send me a magazine. I very rarely will read it although I do scan the table of contents before I throw it out. I didn't join AARP for the magazine. I joined because of all the support, information, and benefits they provide for me in my age group. To me, the membership dues is well worth the pay back I get from them. I view ARRL membership the same way.

Now that you mentioned AARP, I am also a member.  I get two periodicals for my membership.  One is a slick magazine while the other is more like a newspaper tabloid.  Why couldn't the League do like AARP, if all their periodical data is too much to carry in monthly QST alone?  QST could carry all the ads just as it does now, along with ARRL news and happenings, K1ZZ's monthly editorial, the Correspondence section, the division director and vice-director information, as well as important amateur radio news.  Then the member/subscriber would have a choice of secondary publication, oriented towards technical topics, contesting or beginners (in the spirit of the old Ham Radio Horizons).  Each member would be entitled to one of these publications of his choice at no extra cost, and for a nominal extra fee each, could choose to subscribe to one or both of the others.

I suspect cost would be one big reason for not doing this. There is also a stipulation in the By-Laws that all members will receive QST (except those International, blind, and family members who have elected a category of membership that does not include receipt of QST). As you read through the By-Laws, there are a number of statements that indicated certain official notices, activities, announcements, etc., relative to membership, must be published in the journal. If membership has the option of receiving one of two publications, these official notices, activities, announcements, etc. would now have to be published in both publications. Certain parts of the Articles of Association and the By-Laws must likely would have to be re-written. Note: from the By-Laws, "The policy of the journal shall be determined by the Board of Directors". I would suspect a majority vote of the Directors would be needed to change any of the previously mentioned activities.

And, in the end, what does all this buy the membership. In my opinion, nothing, except for a "specialty group" within the membership that wants only in depth technical articles each month and not pay for them.

Ham Radio Horizons languished for 5 years and finally folded.

Quote
Quote
For the most part, Grandpa's radios and magazines are history. But like old photographs, you can pull them down off the shelf from time to time, and reminisce the "good old days".

It is not just I who is beating the dead horse.  The topic of the thread, started by K1DEU, is specifically regarding ARRL membership without QST.

QEX, in place of QST, dead horse.

Quote
In the August issue of QST, a letter appears in the Correspondence section by K6VGO, and I have to give the editors credit for publishing it.  He refers to a recent complaint that most articles in QST are "quite technical, almost requiring a strong electronics understanding", and he then asks "isn't this what used to separate hams from CBers?"  He then goes on to say that he  feels that QST is "the least of the technical publications" and that he found that complaint to be "humorous".

This same topic is also running in a current thread on QRZ.com.

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=211561

I read the correspondence section. "separate hams from CBers" - over the last 30 plus years, if listening to the ham bands is any gauge, probably nothing more then one has a license and the other one doesn't  Grin  It's also nice to see a 68 year old ham indirectly beating up a 73 year old ham on his lack of technical competence. I bet one has a grandpa's radio and the other is a grandpa's radio  Grin Probably has a banner over his station that says, "I took my code and written tests the old fashion way"

I'm sure all the amateur radio movers and shakers on that forum are posting great prose and verse in regards to the topic.
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« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2009, 11:29:04 PM »

QST advertising rates are based on circulation. For that reason alone you will never see an "out" with regards to being able to support the league without the QST fluff.

The magazine is their main revenue generator.

Pete
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« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2009, 11:44:23 PM »

QST advertising rates are based on circulation. For that reason alone you will never see an "out" with regards to being able to support the league without the QST fluff.

The magazine is their main revenue generator.

Pete

Yep. I went through that with Don back a number of months ago on this same topic. Splitting up membership magazine distribution would not make the ad and revenue managers happy.
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« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2009, 01:50:06 AM »

Ham Radio Horizons languished for 5 years and finally folded.

And so did Ham Radio.

To-day's QST is much closer to HR Horizons than to HR.

What is an "international" membership?
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2009, 07:35:29 AM »

Seems like they oughta change the bylaws then, Pete, to leverage the fact that almost everyone has computer access these days and can access that critical information on board meetings on the ARRL website.  For those old buzzards that don't have internet access then by all means let 'em read those scintillating sagas in QST.

Bylaws can be changed, and the definition of QST as a mandatory "benefit" of membership can be changed, too.  This attitude is reminiscent of the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature" jokes from the old days of computer programming.

Point is that the League is cutting off its nose to spite its face with this attitude.  Many (myself included) would be pleased to become members if QEX came with the membership rather than QST.  It seems quite the waste to lug the magazine from the mailbox only to chuck it directly, unopened, into the trash.

I'm not sure that the comparison to AARP is directly applicable.  Does AARP offer another publication at extra cost that is more technical and bereft of the human interest pablum?
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