Need a car [Used] - Thinking about a Volvo - is this a good choice?

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Yep, let's pay people to take perfectly good cars off the road. Seems "green" to me. 

[WD8BIL]

With the amount we've already pumped out...and additional huge reserves found all the time...it makes one wonder if it's really fossil fuel at all.   

Good point, Jay. They're finding wells they thought were pumped dry in the 50s full of oil again. Can you say renewable resource(even if I can't spell it!)?

[Bill, KD0HG]

I dunno, Steve...

We had a broadcast from a Denver car dealer last week..I was looking for a trade-in deal for grins..A sales guy told me to check out their back lot..You should see the wrecks and beaters people are trading in!  No one is trading in anything that has much value. Rotted out old Ford Broncos, pickup trucks, Caddys, rusted out vans...Smoke-belching Junk.

Turns out that they have to junk the trade-ins, I couldn't buy one anyway.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

My brother-in-law works for a car dealer. Most of the trade-ins there were less than 10 years old. Quite a few people were there to scam the system (trade in a POS they weren't even driving), and then take the car and resell it at a nice profit. A big waste if you ask me. But it is a nice feel good measure, much like the Depression Era programs.

[Bill, KD0HG]

What really bums me out is the fact that the trade-in engines have to be destroyed and not recycled.

Check this out from the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124934376942503053.html

[WB3JOK]

That just makes me sick... deliberately destroying engines, instead of selling them to rebuilders. I hope at least they will be melted down into patio furniture or something.

Speaking of silver cars, has anyone ever noticed that their drivers are always the last to turn on headlights in dusk, rain or foggy conditions? I hypothesize that the purchasers want to keep a low profile, but it seems that they do not want to be seen at all! Once on a long boring drive I counted 100 cars without headlights on in the rain and spraying mist - and silver was the most common color by at least a factor of three. 

[W1RKW]

A big waste if you ask me. But it is a nice feel good measure, much like the Depression Era programs.

For the 3 billion they dropped into this for the intent of "greenness" and possibly spurring the economy, will it really amount to anything? I tend to doubt it if one does the math.  It amounts to less than 0.3% of the registered vehicles in the US that will be traded in or 660,000 vehicles traded in.

[k4kyv]

They have to destroy the engines.  But what about the transmissions and other components of the power train?  And wheels, body parts and trim? Except for newer models totalled out in crashes, the engine is often the last thing to be pulled out of a worn-out car at the junk yard.

This idea started in Germany.  There, there wasn't any fuel efficiency incentive. It was based on the age of the car only. The goal was simply to stimulate  the sales of new cars.  They were trashing perfectly good VW's, Porsches and BMW's.

Environmentally, it takes more energy and resources, and produces more carbon,  to build a new car from scratch to unnecessarily replace an old one before its natural demise, than the extra fuel and CO2 the old one would have consumed and produced in the remainder of its lifetime compared to its replacement.

Reminds me of the 50's campaign to crush surplus vacuum tubes, allegedly to keep them from falling into the hands of rebranding racketeers, and carbon filament light bulbs to prevent them from generating TVI.

Hopefully, most of the "clunkers" traded in will be real junk, fit for nothing else but the metal crusher anyway.

One thing I like about the US program is the 20-year limit on the age of the clunker.  That means people won't be dragging out classic cars and antiques that they just had never got "round to" restoring, or that would be valuable to a collector.

One of the reasons there are so few classic pre-WW2 cars still in existence is the scrap metal campaign during the War.  People couldn't get gas, oil or tires for their Model A's and Model T's, so they decided to be patriotic and send them to the metal recycler to help out the war effort rather than just letting them sit around waiting till the War was over.  Many a perfectly good classic car was melted down as a result of that campaign.

At least, this "stimulus" money is going to individuals who might actually need a better car, not to the same CEO's and corporations that tipped the first dominoes to begin with.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,623362,00.html

[ka3zlr]

Nice Car Steve I Like it...

But as far as this green thing ..wattif I don't wanna be green ,..Maybe I Like Blue or Purple-Black.....maybe I like the smell of the air driving past the Coke Works down in Clariton...Smells like fresh creosote...I don't wanna Car that Blows bubbles man.. I want Smoke... ....That New Camaro gots sum possibilities ..

It's getting Harder and Harder to be a Shade Tree Piston Head... ..Heck Now there's Talk about doen Motor Bikes In...with their processed engines and exhaust...Boooooooooo...

73
Jack.

[W1RKW]

Nice Car Steve I Like it...

But as far as this green thing ..wattif I don't wanna be green ,..Maybe I Like Blue or Purple-Black.....maybe I like the smell of the air driving past the Coke Works down in Clariton...Smells like fresh creosote...I don't wanna Car that Blows bubbles man.. I want Smoke... ....That New Camaro gots sum possibilities ..

It's getting Harder and Harder to be a Shade Tree Piston Head... ..Heck Now there's Talk about doen Motor Bikes In...with their processed engines and exhaust...Boooooooooo...

73
Jack.

Wait until they get to your small engines like a weedtrimmer, chainsaw, lawnmower and lawn tractor.

Hope they're not smart enough to get to nitro fueled model car and airplane engines......

[KB2WIG]

 "  At least, this "stimulus" money is going to individuals who might actually need a better car,"

I hope its not the people who wanted a house, and with Fannie May and Freddie Mac, bought one they could not a ford.


klc

[Bill, KD0HG]

I have rebuilt seized engines before.

Disassemble, hot tank all the parts, an .030 bore, machine the crank..New oversize bearings, valve guides.
What's the problem? You'd have to do that stuff anyway.

[W1UJR]

"  At least, this "stimulus" money is going to individuals who might actually need a better car,"

I hope its not the people who wanted a house, and with Fannie May and Freddie Mac, bought one they could not a ford.


klc

Nice pun!
I'm not going to touch that, lest we cross the line of allowable topics here.
Suffice to say that chances are most of the clunkers are paid for and have no loan.
I'm not sure, given the housing mess mentioned, that encouraging people to take on a $20 or $30k debt is the wisest or most responsible move.
Then again, responsibility is not a term well understood by those in the nation's capital.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.

As others pointed out, it does seem like quite a waste.
Perhaps we should send those "clunkers" off to Mexico or China, might help our trade balance! 

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[WQ9E]

Then again, responsibility is not a term well understood by those in the nation's capital.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.

And to add to Bruce's comment, a quote from Mark Twain,

 "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."

I guess we can draw comfort from this since we have survived such idiots for a number of years. 

More on topic for this website, how many of you remember the RCA advertising campaign that used Twain's, "the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" to suggest that the end of the vacuum tube was not yet at hand?  I remember seeing that large poster ad in Helwick's Electronics in Gulfport, MS when I went there with my father as a fairly young child.  Just like surplus radios, that parts store had a special aroma I will always remember.

Rodger WQ9E

[AJ1G]

Alright, alright, we can forgive you for both the yuppified Volvo ride, Steve, AND the silver car that and is missing the cylinder (what else did they leave out?), the leather seats (are they heated?) only if you put a man's ham radio antenna on it!!!........

Steve - here's an idea for a mobile antenna for that class E setup...Thule bike carrier acts as an elevated mount for whip of your choice.   I use  not too manly (but low hamsexy factor) Hamstick knockoffs..they are not that great on 75/80 but kick ass on 40 and up on the Thule mount.  It would work well on the XC90 to get the antenna up and away from the car without running into overhead clearance problems you will have with a roof mount on a tall ship SUV like yours.  The mount pivots away from the car to access the tail gate (and to shift to NVIS propagation mode support)

The Volvo 5 cylinder engines actually run quite smooth.  And the heated leather seats are FB OM as well. 

Chris, AJ1G

[W1UJR]

Now that's a "Man-Tenna"!

[AJ1G]

The yellow "WAVE GUIDE - DO NOT STRIKE" labels on the sides of the Thule box tube add at least 6 dB!

Only drawback of this setup is that I have to take it off when I want to tow the utility trailer - I think you can get the Thule carriers with a "pass through" base that supports using the hitch with the carrier still installed.

[WB2EMS]

I run a bike mount like that with a bracket added to hold my BB3 screwdriver antenna in a similar fashion. With a 108 inch whip on top of that it's a serious antenna. Works well down on 40 and 75 meters!

Now if I can just get rid of the dang fuel pump noise....

[steve_qix]

Wow, nice antenna setup, Chris ! 

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... The picture does look silver, but the car isn't silver - it's "willow metalic green"     (which has a lot of silver color in it!).

But, for whatever it seems hard to photograph the color accurately.  Here is a silver XC90 and a willow green XC90 next to each other.

[w3jn]

I just can't picture Steve driving anything other than his Town Car 

[k4kyv]

An article in the local newspaper to-day stated that the engine in a clunker trade-in has to be destroyed, but the rest of the car may be "recycled".

[steve_qix]

I just can't picture Steve driving anything other than his Town Car 

Yeah, but you know - it's still a boat!  The Volvo (amazingly) weighs _MORE_ than the Lincoln !

The Lincoln's GVW is around 5500 Lbs, and the Volvo's GVW is 6005 pounds!!!  Yet it's a smaller car, physically - not as long or as wide, and the engine is smaller (the Linc has that big V8 in there - and it is a big one as opposed to the Volvo's 5).

Not sure where all the extra weight comes from, but the thing sure is HEAVY 

Regards,

Steve

[K6JEK]

An article in the local newspaper to-day stated that the engine in a clunker trade-in has to be destroyed, but the rest of the car may be "recycled".

I just got back from a car event, Hot August Nights in Reno, where I hung out with my buddies, the service manager of a Chrysler dealership and the parts manager of Nissan dealership. They were both showing beautiful vintage cars.  I asked them all about the CFC program.  Greg, the service manager, had personally done in 17 cars.  Indeed, they do sell the "clunker" to salvage yards for almost nothing, $100.  He thinks they're the guys making out like bandits.  Had he destroyed some cars that really pained him?  Yes, a couple.  He mentioned a beautiful 1999 Grand Cherokee. The other I've forgotten.  "Most, though, were like that" he said as he pointed to a really rough looking old Dodge Caravan minivan, paint gone to hell, cracked tail light.

[K3ZS]

I have a 1995 Honda Accord.    I can't profit from the clunkers because it gets 33 mpg already.    I don't know of a car that can meet the clunkers law that I would want to replace it with.    Anyway it still runs fine and has about 100000 more miles to go.

[W2VW]

I just can't picture Steve driving anything other than his Town Car 

Yeah, but you know - it's still a boat!  The Volvo (amazingly) weighs _MORE_ than the Lincoln !

The Lincoln's GVW is around 5500 Lbs, and the Volvo's GVW is 6005 pounds!!!  Yet it's a smaller car, physically - not as long or as wide, and the engine is smaller (the Linc has that big V8 in there - and it is a big one as opposed to the Volvo's 5).

Not sure where all the extra weight comes from, but the thing sure is HEAVY 

Regards,

Steve

Actual difference is about 350 pounds. Scroll down and view curb weight for both vehicles.

GVWR is total weight vehicle can carry plus vehicle weight. SUV's must have a greater GVW to beat gas guzzler tax. Stupidity brought to you by US government.

Volvo specs:

http://autos.pressdemocrat.com/6282-YV4CY592261255319/Volvo/XC90/listingOverview.aspx

Lincoln specs I'm not sure of your year and exact model and if funky green paint makes a difference:

http://lincolnbuyersguide.theautochannel.com/vehicles/new/reviews/1999/lweitzman_lincoln_town_car.html