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Do NOT screw with Navy SEALS




 
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Author Topic: Do NOT screw with Navy SEALS  (Read 79296 times)
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #100 on: April 21, 2009, 11:20:02 AM »

The Somalis are "in their box" and "get daily spankings".

I didn't say "shot down", I said "shot at". The Somalis haven't sunk a single freighter, either. They just shoot at them. Okay, they boarded one. That's still less reason than we've ever had for any military action.

Reality is harsh. No matter what the news tells you, the recent election didn't cure racism.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #101 on: April 21, 2009, 12:11:05 PM »

I didn't say "shot down", I said "shot at". The Somalis haven't sunk a single freighter, either. They just shoot at them. Okay, they boarded one. That's still less reason than we've ever had for any military action.

If that's all they ever did, then how have those pirates managed to amass fortunes worth millions of dollars and currently hold over 300 hostages?  They have seized four more ships with 60 hostages since the incident with American freighter captain Richard Phillips.

But since this is an international problem involving countries all over the world, any action against Somalia should be international in nature, with other victim countries pulling their share of the weight, sharing the burden equally with the US as equal partners.  Why should it always overwhelmingly be American soldiers who die and American dollars that are spent when in many cases, one of which is Iraq, other countries are the  primary beneficiaries of the action but we are the ones so quick to jump in, play World Cop and bear the major burden?

Don't tell me the action in Iraq was "international" in nature and that we are mere partners in a "coalition", when at the peak of the action we had some 160,000 U.S. troops there, the next largest contingent was from the UK, 5000 troops at most, while other partners in the coalition furnished a few hundred and in some cases tens of troops.  Europe and the rest of the middle east have far more at stake regarding Iraq than the U.S. does, save one thing: oil.

I suspect any one of those 4400 soldiers who will never get to lay food on U.S. soil again, along with their families and loved ones and those who returned maimed and disabled for life, would have gladly paid $5/gallon if that meant history could be re-played.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #102 on: April 21, 2009, 12:22:39 PM »

If that's all they ever did, then how have those pirates managed to amass fortunes worth millions of dollars and currently hold over 300 hostages?  They have seized four more ships with 60 hostages since the incident with American freighter captain Richard Phillips.

None of which are American ships, which was the context in which I was replying.

Taken out of context, you can twist my words any number of ways, if I let you.

I am talking about a clear double-standard. The previous conflicts were bad ideas, we were stretched too thin, we had no reason, they were no threat, etc. Somalia? Exactly the same kind of situation, yet these same people think it's a great idea. We'll win overnight. Exit strategy, what's that? We'll just kill everybody, and the whole world will respect us for it this time.

When pressed to present some logic or reasoning that isn't based solely on hatred of one man or nationality, they can't do it.

What I said stands. Only one of our ships has been attacked. That's still less justification for military action than we've ever had in history.
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #103 on: April 21, 2009, 12:52:34 PM »

Interestingly...A Canadian Navy ship foiled a shipjacking a few days ago in response to a call for help. The pirates were captured but then released. The statement issued by the Canadian government stated that because the pirates did not attack a Canadian-flagged vessel or Canadian citizens, they had no legal grounds to hold them for prosecution.

"...Forces boarded a pirate skiff, found a rocket-propelled grenade, and interrogated and disarmed the pirates before releasing them.

NATO officials say the pirates cannot be prosecuted under Canadian law because they did not attack Canadian citizens or interests and the crime was not committed on Canadian territory. .."

So, what *are* the rules of engagement?

http://cfra.com/?cat=3&nid=64591
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WQ9E
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« Reply #104 on: April 21, 2009, 01:16:50 PM »

Bill,

I saw that same story and nothing should surprise me anymore but that did.

Being the bad sort, I would be in favor of just sinking their little pirate boats and let the sharks and their chosen deity decide their fate.  But since we are bound by civilized rules in an uncivil part of the globe at the very least they should be held instead of this catch and release.

Until the risk/return trade-off for this behavior changes the pirates are taking the rational approach.  It is long past time to GREATLY increase the negative risk of piracy.
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Rodger WQ9E
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« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2009, 01:19:01 PM »

Quote
So, what *are* the rules of engagement?

"Shoot on sight" works for me.

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k4kyv
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« Reply #106 on: April 21, 2009, 02:13:34 PM »

What I said stands. Only one of our ships has been attacked. That's still less justification for military action than we've ever had in history.

Which is exactly what I said.  If there is to be any kind of military action at all, it should be a joint effort by all countries that have been victimised.  The last thing we need is to get involved in anything unilateral.  In this case the U.S. has, at most, justification to take a lesser role in the operation than Russia, France and numerous other countries that have suffered greater losses than has the U.S.  I'd say the U.S. handled the situation appropriately when an American crew member was recently captured.  So did the French Navy when the French crew was taken.

Somalia doesn't even have a functioning government, so wouldn't it be kind of hard to bring about a "regime change"?

The following episode in US history was taught in my high school class when I was a  student.  I would hope and assume it still is:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/barbary.htm


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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2009, 02:23:08 PM »

Then what was the point of your previous post? You knew I was responding to what Frank wrote, you understood the context of what I wrote, so what was the point of calling me out on something you knew I wasn't saying?
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k4kyv
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« Reply #108 on: April 21, 2009, 04:12:35 PM »

I think you are reading more into this than was intended; you said there had been only one ship attacked; when I read your message I wasn't thinking only in terms of US ships.  Besides, we are only one nation of many using those busy shipping lanes. If pirates are going after unarmed French and Russian vessels, our undefended ships are bound to be sitting ducks as well.

You may recall that that one of the justifications our leaders used to sell the public on entering WW1 was to protect "freedom of the seas".  "Remember the Lusitania"... reminiscent of "Gulf of Tonkin" and "WMD's"?.  To-day, historians are still debating the causes and objectives of that war and why we and other nations entered it.

When vistiting Boston, I wouldn't go strolling in Roxbury at night all alone and unarmed.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2009, 04:16:18 PM »

You  said there had been only one ship attacked; when I read your message I wasn't thinking only in terms of US ships.

Nope, that's not what I wrote, either:

The Somalis haven't sunk a single freighter, either. They just shoot at them.

That doesn't even come close. In fact, that says they do attack them.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #110 on: April 21, 2009, 04:28:50 PM »

They haven't sunk a tanker yet, but they have captured a number of ships.  Remember the one from a former Soviet-bloc country (I forget which) that was  loaded with tanks and other war materials that they captured?  If they had managed keep control of it and to offload that weaponry, the international threat that would have posed would not have exactly been trivial.

We don't need to be looking for some excuse to go to war with what amounts to a  non-country, but yet it is insane to be cruising those waters in ships that aren't carrying some kind of even minimal armed protection.

Now, how about that AM activity on 40 metres?
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #111 on: April 21, 2009, 04:39:21 PM »

Ah-HAH!! Jumped back into the QSO without catching back up on the conversation, didn't you?  Wink

Now, how about that AM activity on 40 metres?

Finally worked Todd on 40 last night, or would have if it weren't for the static. Then I tuned up the band a bit and caught a few minutes of Iran's take on "the zionist Obama's racist aggression against the people of Somalia" (their words, obviously, not mine).

Small world, isn't it?
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W1RKW
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« Reply #112 on: April 21, 2009, 05:00:35 PM »

I still like Tom's/K1JJ's idea, an electrified fence (like 10kV) around the hull. Or light the hull up with a Tesla coil.  Just the mere sight of arc's flying all over the place would keep me away.
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Bob
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« Reply #113 on: April 21, 2009, 05:59:58 PM »

Ah-HAH!! Jumped back into the QSO without catching back up on the conversation, didn't you?  Wink

Now, how about that AM activity on 40 metres?

Finally worked Todd on 40 last night, or would have if it weren't for the static. Then I tuned up the band a bit and caught a few minutes of Iran's take on "the zionist Obama's racist aggression against the people of Somalia" (their words, obviously, not mine).

Small world, isn't it?
That's one of the things I love about shortwave.  It fills me with such a nice sense of nostalgia.  Radio Havana is really good for this.  Time has stood still.  And now if they aren't coming in so well there is the voice of the mullahs.

And that Obama guy.  He must be one of the first black racist Zionist Muslims.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #114 on: April 21, 2009, 06:19:12 PM »

Actually, I often spend time during the evening  hours listening to Radio Ethiopia on 7110. With the sync detector, the audio quality is fairly decent.  Having lived in the region years ago, I enjoy listening to the familiar sound of their music.  If they finally do move the station out of the ham band, I hope they land on a clear frequency somewhere.  Their presence on 7110 doesn't really bother me because, due the ridiculous US subband restrictions on 40m, 7100-7125 is a wasteland anyway, except maybe to the "hello-g'bye ur five-nine pse QSL 73 QRZ?" crowd working split frequency.  Radio Sudan plops down on 7200 every night, with their LSB slopping below 7.2.  But the Eritrea-Ethiopia conflict spilling over into SW broadcasting with that jamming crap that wipes out anywhere from 7155 to 7185 every evening starting at 0400Z, is the real PITA.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #115 on: April 21, 2009, 06:41:59 PM »

He must be one of the first black racist Zionist Muslims.

He's a Muslim? Where did you get that information? I know Jeremiah Wright talks like a mullah, but last time I checked that was a Christian church he was preaching at.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2009, 09:31:15 AM »

One thing many of you are missing is the sociatal evolution of many of these perole that we are at odds with.

Many of these people do not know or understand civilization as we know it. In their sociatal evolution, they are still several hundred years behind us. All they understand is a feudalistic warlord society. He who carries the biggest stick and kills the most people is the leader!! you have to PROVE to them that you can and will wipe them out EFFORTLESSLY any time you please. All that they understsnd is that you can easily kill them any time you feel like it. It is just that simple. Organized civilization as we are accustomed to is not something they comprehend period!!

So, I have no problems giving them what they want and appreciate! Just simply kill a large quantity of them and the rest will fall into line. short, sweet, and simple.
Just teach them that in a modern scociety there are prices to be paid for your actions!!

                                                                   the Slab Bacon
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #117 on: April 22, 2009, 01:13:48 PM »

You must be Italian
All so simple
Play by the rules of the game
Play to win
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #118 on: April 22, 2009, 02:48:19 PM »

All so simple
Play by the rules of the game
Play to win

So put your money where your mouth is. Go over there and fix the problem.

No? Why not? It's so simple, by your logic. Three bullets will stop the whole problem, right? You've got three bullets, use them! Judging from your venom and vitriol, it obviously means that much to you, so do it. Put up or shut up.

Otherwise, you're just proving the old idiom: the empty can rattles the most.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #119 on: April 22, 2009, 03:55:43 PM »

Just my Point on this:

 If yer not serving there, living there, operating there, you have no Idea what, where or when...First of all....BUT GO NAVY MAN....... Cheesy kick butt...

 Second I used to agree with Slabs ideals, I really used to think that...just wipe up a few and all will fall...Not....

Anymore my thoughts are on Feeding and Civilizing them....we need to get into these places any way we can and Civilize these people....like up to Date would be gud... Smiley and stop baby sitting Israel...

It's just my opinion...


73
Jack.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #120 on: April 22, 2009, 04:52:21 PM »

You must be Italian


how the hell else would I know how to make pickled eggplant  Grin Grin   
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #121 on: April 22, 2009, 05:01:59 PM »

Just my Point on this:

 If yer not serving there, living there, operating there, you have no Idea what, where or when...First of all....BUT GO NAVY MAN....... Cheesy kick butt...

 Second I used to agree with Slabs ideals, I really used to think that...just wipe up a few and all will fall...Not....

Anymore my thoughts are on Feeding and Civilizing them....we need to get into these places any way we can and Civilize these people....like up to Date would be gud
It's just my opinion...
73
Jack.



Jack,
       you miss the whole point, you cannot civilize these people!! And they do not want it.
How many of these countries have we suported and fed with foreign aid? Only to have them turn around and bite us!! Dogs are more civilized than some of these people!! Lets face it, at least a dog doesnt turn around and bite the hand that feeds it!!

There isnt much you can really do but show them what the consequences are and leave it at that. They dont understand (or want to) anything else.

You just cant take shit and make ice cream out of it no matter how hard you try.

                                                                      The Slab Bacon
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #122 on: April 22, 2009, 05:45:13 PM »

Slab that's FB...I don't have a problem...

I just know of what I've been told by my Nephews on what action is happening in their areas of operation over there, there are many of the let's just say non participants in the radical aspects that would Welcome more relief and more food and more support...and LAW...Real Law.

And that's the problem isn't it, there's no law there's no peace...and I don't look at them like animals, alot are stuck doing what who's in charge says...with the most guns...Take that guy out...No...we don't do that...do we...?

I don't miss the point brother, I'm passed Cheney's ideals of Limited skirmishes to settle local issues...If yer gona Invade then Invade and bring Law to the land.

Disarm and Rebuild completely. Feed the people quit playing the protective Hamlet routine...Besides if we would shift into Real Rebuilding Real school making Real Help think of the jobs that could be created around the world...and the Feed that you described would actually make it where it's supposed to go, there's black market in action doing real business in some of these areas in trouble.

I'm Done.

73
Jack.


 




 
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W1VD
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« Reply #123 on: April 22, 2009, 06:46:40 PM »

Over the last 40 years we've transferred > $5T of wealth into US inner cities and what do we have to show for it? Just more of the same. If it doesn't work here why would you assume it will work there? Good intentions seldom guarantee desired results.

A thought on protecting US ships...

Since we apparently can't arm our mariners why not have a large pack of hungry German Shepherds on board? Pirates for lunch...git 'em!     

 
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #124 on: April 22, 2009, 07:06:21 PM »

Since we apparently can't arm our mariners why not have a large pack of hungry German Shepherds on board? Pirates for lunch...git 'em!     

Now that's the most practical approach I've heard yet!
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