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Author Topic: The SS-B Closes In  (Read 37887 times)
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AB5S
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« on: January 05, 2009, 09:15:55 PM »

heh heh...


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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2009, 07:34:31 AM »

Very Good !  Where did you get this (or did you make it yourself)?  It's SO true!

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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2009, 10:42:41 AM »

Hence...The goals of the Heavy Metal Rally.
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W1AEX
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2009, 01:30:14 PM »

Cleverly done. It does seem like AM is getting very fenced in on the lower bands. I can recall 25 years ago that it was not at all uncommon to see 1865, 1875, 1885 and 1895 running flat out with 4 different AM conversations going on at once during the prime-time winter hours. Seems like SSB nets and other PW operations are now closing in around 1885, pretty much making it a single frequency band with one huge group trying to awkwardly "pass it around". Just an observation, I have no solution to offer, other than perhaps to split a big group and grab 1880 and 1888 to carve out a bigger swath!

Rob W1AEX
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2009, 01:45:23 PM »

#1 invitation for slopbuckets firing up atop your already in progress QSO and pretending they never heard anything is operation on frequencies ending exactly in 5.00 or 0.00 kcs. Heard it on 160 a few nights ago. Sad.

Same op from THAT QSO fired up atop a totally different group of slopbucketeers an another freq last evening.

Most hams new and old have trouble figuring how far to dial away from an ongoing QSO with strong to medium signal levels. This includes AM people. The 0.00 5.00 problem would fix itself if AM users thought a little more about their occupied bandwidth when starting new QSOs next to giant roundtables.

Ask 10 ops and see.
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AB5S
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« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2009, 06:12:38 PM »

Very Good !  Where did you get this (or did you make it yourself)?  It's SO true!

Made it myself.  I'm working on my own "Heavy Metal" station.
I'm dog-tired of SSB Nazis deciding I don't have the same
rights I grant to them.  There's no such thing as a
"gentleman's agreement" when there's gentlemen on only one side.
Those who say they don't want a conflict are blind- or worse.
You've got a conflict already, like it or not.
And if you think it's bad here in the U.S., ask our friends
in Australia or Europe about the irrational hatred and
jamming aimed at AMers.  That's what happens to
us if we do nothing, trying to "avoid a conflict"
that's already knocking us on the head.

And you can't rely on the FCC to do anything.
Years ago, the SS-B Nazis set up on 3878 with the
specific, openly stated intention of running AM off the air.
People asked the FCC in get involved.  Hollingsworth showed
up on the freq.  What was the result?  Well, 3878 is still there,
full of SSB guys who are now entrenched and have no regard
for anyone trying to work in the "AM-witz" concentration camp.

When the phone band expanded, I and some others tried to
set up an AM window in the Extra section, at 3685 KC.
The band was totally empty for dozens of KCs either side.
We had a few QSOs when here came the SS-B Nazis,
who set up shop on *3683.5* KC (look at that freq again).
Again, they specifically and openly stated they were going to
stop any "AM window" before it could get started.
It wasn't long before their extremely loud signals ran us off.
I tried a few more times; I would listen to the empty 20 KCs
around, then call "CQ" on 3685.  Within minutes, the SSBers
would be on, telling each other to warm up the "lean-ers" because
"that AM clown is on again," and saying how they were writing the
FCC about *me* for interfering with *them!*  (!?*!)
Appeals for help with this blatent, open and "in your face"
intentional interference were ignored.
Last I looked, they were still occasionally there.
So much for doing things "by the book."

People who do as the above says, hiding from obvious
attack in hopes it will "go away" are not just harming themselves;
they hurt us all.  Recently, someone unnamed "agreed"
with some SSB Nazis who wanted to be on *3883* that
"we" would shut down our AM rigs at 6 PM, so they could
have the band when it went long.  Well, he's a great guy
but he sure ain't speaking for me.  It will be a cooooold day....

We don't have to get in a cuss-fit; 
Let me say that again: 
An uncivil "jammer war" will be self-destructive
and will not work.  Yelling and fighting won't work.
We just need to stop being so agreeable,
stop giving in to SSB Nazi bullies,
and say NO once in awhile.   
And the old "no one owns a frequency" guff is a nonsense,
straw-man argument;  everyone has to be *somewhere,*
and it's better we all understand who lives where.
We aren't asking for much- 20 or 30 KCs total out
of FOUR HUNDRED is a pretty small slice of the pie.
But they won't respect that.  They want it ALL.

"Gentleman's Agreements" have proven to be utterly worthless. 
The SSBers have proven they will NOT respect any agreement.
Either build a station that can't be run off the air,
and start saying a polite but FIRM "NO" to interlopers,
or face the fate shown above.

You cannot stop a man from beating you over the head
by handing him flowers.  And we are getting beaten bloody, friends.
You will either force this man to respect you, or you can be his dog
and do his bidding, licking his hand for the scraps ( like 3880-witz )
he lets fall from his table.  *There is no "middle ground."*
Which are you?

73 Dave AB5S

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WB2YGF
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2009, 06:36:55 PM »

Cleverly done. It does seem like AM is getting very fenced in on the lower bands. I can recall 25 years ago that it was not at all uncommon to see 1865, 1875, 1885 and 1895 running flat out with 4 different AM conversations going on at once during the prime-time winter hours.
Actually, I think I did hear 4 AM QSO's at once either Monday or Tuesday night.  They were spread out from about 3700 to 3995.  I was surprised and pleased to hear that much activity.  That said, it's too bad we have to be chased around the band in order to have a QSO.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2009, 07:32:03 PM »

I couldn't agree more. You make your point well. I would however be a little careful in comparing any negative AM-SSB interaction with the attempted genocide by the Nazis and the resulting 6 million deaths.



Very Good !  Where did you get this (or did you make it yourself)?  It's SO true!

Made it myself.  I'm working on my own "Heavy Metal" station.
I'm dog-tired of SSB Nazis deciding I don't have the same
rights I grant to them.  There's no such thing as a
"gentleman's agreement" when there's gentlemen on only one side.
Those who say they don't want a conflict are blind- or worse.
You've got a conflict already, like it or not.
And if you think it's bad here in the U.S., ask our friends
in Australia or Europe about the irrational hatred and
jamming aimed at AMers.  That's what happens to
us if we do nothing, trying to "avoid a conflict"
that's already knocking us on the head.

And you can't rely on the FCC to do anything.
Years ago, the SS-B Nazis set up on 3878 with the
specific, openly stated intention of running AM off the air.
People asked the FCC in get involved.  Hollingsworth showed
up on the freq.  What was the result?  Well, 3878 is still there,
full of SSB guys who are now entrenched and have no regard
for anyone trying to work in the "AM-witz" concentration camp.

When the phone band expanded, I and some others tried to
set up an AM window in the Extra section, at 3685 KC.
The band was totally empty for dozens of KCs either side.
We had a few QSOs when here came the SS-B Nazis,
who set up shop on *3683.5* KC (look at that freq again).
Again, they specifically and openly stated they were going to
stop any "AM window" before it could get started.
It wasn't long before their extremely loud signals ran us off.
I tried a few more times; I would listen to the empty 20 KCs
around, then call "CQ" on 3685.  Within minutes, the SSBers
would be on, telling each other to warm up the "lean-ers" because
"that AM clown is on again," and saying how they were writing the
FCC about *me* for interfering with *them!*  (!?*!)
Appeals for help with this blatent, open and "in your face"
intentional interference were ignored.
Last I looked, they were still occasionally there.
So much for doing things "by the book."

People who do as the above says, hiding from obvious
attack in hopes it will "go away" are not just harming themselves;
they hurt us all.  Recently, someone unnamed "agreed"
with some SSB Nazis who wanted to be on *3883* that
"we" would shut down our AM rigs at 6 PM, so they could
have the band when it went long.  Well, he's a great guy
but he sure ain't speaking for me.  It will be a cooooold day....

We don't have to get in a cuss-fit; 
Let me say that again: 
An uncivil "jammer war" will be self-destructive
and will not work.  Yelling and fighting won't work.
We just need to stop being so agreeable,
stop giving in to SSB Nazi bullies,
and say NO once in awhile.   
And the old "no one owns a frequency" guff is a nonsense,
straw-man argument;  everyone has to be *somewhere,*
and it's better we all understand who lives where.
We aren't asking for much- 20 or 30 KCs total out
of FOUR HUNDRED is a pretty small slice of the pie.
But they won't respect that.  They want it ALL.

"Gentleman's Agreements" have proven to be utterly worthless. 
The SSBers have proven they will NOT respect any agreement.
Either build a station that can't be run off the air,
and start saying a polite but FIRM "NO" to interlopers,
or face the fate shown above.

You cannot stop a man from beating you over the head
by handing him flowers.  And we are getting beaten bloody, friends.
You will either force this man to respect you, or you can be his dog
and do his bidding, licking his hand for the scraps ( like 3880-witz )
he lets fall from his table.  *There is no "middle ground."*
Which are you?

73 Dave AB5S


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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2009, 07:37:51 PM »

If the LIDs, kids, splatterers and the miscreants can't work it out then I'll have to send the following rule proposal to the FCC.  Solve the problem by making the ham bands more like CB.    Assigned channels like all the other FCC services.  Works for them.  See the attached Excel sheet below:

* 75mPhoneChannels4.pdf (6.05 KB - downloaded 324 times.)
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
W4EWH
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 08:00:22 PM »

If the LIDs, kids, splatterers and the miscreants can't work it out then I'll have to send the following rule proposal to the FCC.  

Tom,

I think that's a great idea - so let's do it for real.

If anyone on here knows how to draw up an FCC petition, I propose we submit one that carves out 3675-3695, 3775-3795, and 3875-3895 for AM only. It will send a message to the SSB crowd and might just lead to some more effective enforcement action.

My 2’.

73,

Bill, W1AC
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 08:19:50 PM »

Bill,

It sounds like you may not have read my proposal.  Also, I am against reserved parts of the phone bands for various phone modes.  This wastes spectrum.   Your frequencies mentioned does not follow my international HF standard 3 kHz channel spacing.   

Further rules would be:
4.  A channel may not be used if already occupied.
5.  To start AM operation, 4 consecutive channels must be found clear of activity.

2 years after inception, the frequency tolerance would tighten to +/- 8 Hertz.  No more nasty AM heterodynes, like the AM Broadcast Service.  No more off-pitch slop-bucket.
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2009, 09:03:54 PM »

I have frequently tried to start a QSO on 3685, but no other AM'ers responded to  my call.  I don't recognise dead-air groups, so if I can get a QSO started first, the squatters will just have to move elsewhere.  I won't move to accommodate a SSB group (or another AM group, for that matter) that insists on starting up right next to my existing QSO and then proceeds to complain about the QRM.  Once you start moving around to accommodate those jerks, you become like the little kid on the playground who gets ganged up on and shoved from bully to bully.

As for dead-air groups, all frequencies are first come, first served.  You have to actually be using a frequency for it to be "in use".  If you and your buddies drop out for supper or to take a crap or whatever, the frequency becomes instantly up for grabs.  It's just like when you are queued up at the teller window at the bank.  If you step out to take care of some other business or chit-chat with a friend, you don't return to the same spot in the queue.  You go back to the end of the line and start all over again.

I have  run into dead-air slopbucketeers on both sides of 3685.  The only reason I'm not there more often is that I call CQ till I'm blue in the face before another AM station responds.

I don't think it would be a good idea to petition the FCC for channelised operation or AM-only subbands.  Nor would the FCC even be inclined to get involved. Just strap softly and turn up the wick.

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Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Ralph W3GL
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 09:35:03 PM »

Tom,

What happened to 160 and 40? 

While your at it do the same for all the HF bands, be consistent...
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73,  Ralph  W3GL 

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AB5S
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Look what four daughters will do to you.


« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2009, 09:53:40 PM »

I couldn't agree more. You make your point well. I would however be a little careful in comparing any negative AM-SSB interaction with the attempted genocide by the Nazis and the resulting 6 million deaths.

Not so (he said gently). 
"Nazi" is a complex concept;
the differing facets may be referenced independently.
My analog makes no reference to the genocide aspect.

The point of the analogy is that bowing to bullying in an attempt
to "get along," which was Western Europe's initial- and fatal-
response to Hitler, leads only to more bullying and eventual disaster.
The analogy is, therefore, correct and appropriate.
Kindly,
David S.


p.s. Sorry, but I think the "channelization" idea a very bad one.
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AB5S
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Look what four daughters will do to you.


« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2009, 10:04:27 PM »

I have frequently tried to start a QSO on 3685, but no other AM'ers responded to  my call....

If we could organize activity on 3685, I'd be happy to contribute.
My "big gun" is several weeks away yet, but I'll give'um what I got.
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2009, 10:08:48 PM »

we don't need no mo stinkin rules.......just build a bigger signal if it bothers you.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2009, 10:44:44 PM »

3880 Witz?



My analog makes no reference to the genocide aspect.

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KF1Z
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2009, 11:58:59 PM »

Tom,

"channelized" frequency allocations?

Have to outlaw VFOs .    Shocked




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KF1Z
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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2009, 12:07:28 AM »


As for dead-air groups, all frequencies are first come, first served.  You have to actually be using a frequency for it to be "in use". 




I heard Irb, VJZ   tell people on many occasions that he WAS using the frequency,
He was LISTENING to it!

 Wink
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2009, 02:36:52 AM »

Hmmm, I read the file..

I think I understand what Toms after here...somewhat...

It would challenge the "Sliding up under" or moving in "Above" ongoing QSO type activities.."Tactics"...an Force established procedure..

Interesting Concept..

If yer serious about this Tom I'd like to read the complete proposal...
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2009, 09:22:32 AM »

And install Delta Tune!

Tom,

"channelized" frequency allocations?

Have to outlaw VFOs .    Shocked





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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2009, 09:59:15 AM »

1) find a clear spot & have a QSO (within your frequncy allocation of course)
2) run enough power to be heard
3) talk with stations following rule 2, politely ignore the rest
4) no 15 minute old buzzard transmissions with 51 watts-this is equivalent to riding a moped on the beltway--you WILL get run over.
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W7XXX
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2009, 10:04:41 AM »

Dave

The AM'ers were imprisoned in Witz years ago. Your cartoon is entertaining and I enjoyed it, however the AM vs SSB war has been raging since the advent of production made SSB gear. Blame Collins, Swan, Drake, Hallicrafters, and even National with their transgender rig, oops I mean transceiver. Let's review a little ham history with my slant….

We had the hertz (hurts) put on us when it was announced that we could no longer call cycles, cycles, we had to call cycles hertz. It was then we were put in line to board the train to Hamwitz.. It hurts me to say hertz, so I still say cycles. Megacycles and kilocycles still work for me.

The AM'ers aboard the train to Hamwitz arrived there in the late 80's or early 90's when it was determined by the FCC (Father Concentration Camp) that input power rating was against what the SS Brigade stood for, so PEP rating was introduced which reduced maximum AM carrier output, assuming 75% efficiency, from 750 watts to a paltry 375 watts. It was then I severed ties to the ARRL and dropped out as a VEC. I saw the construction of the gas chambers. It was then I designed my QSL card for the breaker breaker qsl good buddy types that I knew would soon become hams.

Then my vision and prophesies started unfolding. I was mocked and called all kind of names for my prediction that one day one could get an extra license with NO CODE and use memorization for the so-called technical or written test. It started with lowering code requirements … the gas chamber walls went up, then no code and the roof was finished. All that remains now is to pump in the gas and insist that us filthy AM'ers go take a shower in the NEW shower room.

I saw the day of the one on one and small group AM disappear … gang mentality was adopted by AM'ers … safety in numbers … AM'ers lost their cahonies … AM windows or volunteer concentration camps were formed … gentlemen agreements were assumed, it was an oversight that gentlemen were also a thing of the past. My definition of a gang: "A gathering of cowards." The days of an AM station escaping through the fences of the CC and calling cq and getting a real AM'er to come back are rare. Groups became larger and lower frequencies on 80 meters are used now that anyone can become an extra class without code … new concentration camps are formed, leaving behind the old AM'ers of a lowly General license that refuse to accept an Extra class welfare license.

The days of old time AM are almost gone. Homebrewing a complete vintage style station is rare. DX on AM is rare on 80 meters. One on one qso's are rare. Modern electronics has introduced a million new ways to jam … diversity they call it. Modern AM hams think the term "inrush current" refers to breaking in on a big group. Even push to squawk is antique.

Ricardo is dead ... no more T shirts or no more on air AM slopbucket imitations.

Ozona is dead...

Look at the age of most AM'ers? When we die who will keep AM alive? Maybe this won't be an issue if the SS Brigade ever gets us to take a shower. I will stink before I take a shower at Hamwitz.

There is no solution that can be made as a group ... news rules would only lead to new violations ... the current rules are not enforced. Petitions are just something to be shredded. The FCC designated ruling powers made up of mostly slopbucketeers will put the quietus on any proposal to advance AM. If they agree to anything that appears to our benefit, then there is a hidden agenda that will only lead to the demise of AM.

My solution: Listen around the band desired for anyone calling cq on AM. Respond and hopefully you can get a qso going. If no one is calling CQ then ... pick a freq ... listen for awhile ... then call CQ. If you get jammed then how you deal with the situation is a personal one. You may decide to join a large group and get to transmit once every hour or more. Many AM'ers never do the math ... a group of 10 where each transmit for 6 minutes is once an hour. What about the 30 minute old buzzard transmissions? A group of 4 would be once every 2 hours.

Here is my QSL circa 1990's.... designed for entertainment purposes ... all we can do is laugh.



* qsl_edited-1.jpg (230.09 KB, 400x300 - viewed 590 times.)
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W7XXX
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2009, 10:32:49 AM »

Just for fun ... here is a closer view of my prophesy circa 1990's....
This QSL was approved and endorsed by Ricardo K8MLV.


* qsl_edited-3.jpg (366.37 KB, 400x533 - viewed 573 times.)
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2009, 10:55:01 AM »

WA3KLR listening Channel 95 _._
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
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