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Author Topic: That KerCHUNK "sound of power" when keying, and modern transmitters  (Read 38550 times)
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Blaine N1GTU
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2008, 05:04:16 PM »

I wonder if i can rig up a Kerchunktm to work in Skype
they need to add a PTT feature anyway
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2008, 05:18:06 PM »

Now....lets talk about something really important.....like Communism!
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2008, 09:23:55 PM »

That's right.

that's right.

* HUZKeyUp.mp3 (79.44 KB - downloaded 302 times.)
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2008, 03:38:02 AM »

How about open headers barking fire on a cold winter night.....
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2008, 11:15:41 AM »

I wonder if i can rig up a Kerchunktm to work in Skype
they need to add a PTT feature anyway

G's already done that, Blaine. Think he uses a flyswatter on cue.  Grin

How about open headers barking fire on a cold winter night.....

I had a little 70-something Chevy pickup with a 307 and three-on-a-tree with headers, header mufflers, and straight pipes out the side. You could see the flashes at night in the side view mirrors. Loved downshifting on a hill. Snappity-snap-snap-crack-crackle....



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K1JJ
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"Let's go kayaking, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2008, 01:56:22 PM »

On both AM and ssb, I went the other way.  The key-up relays in the shack were just too damn loud and seemed acoustically amplified by the rack cabinet.  On ssb guys would axe me what the heck the sound was, since I like to use PTT to simulate VOX and key on and off frequently..

The solution was to build a low-level variable time delay that let me delay audio by about 250 ms before going live. The big relays now have time to acoustically die off and now there's just a slight blower noise coming up. 

Heck, a little blower noise and a look at the S meter is all someone needs to know they are listening to a really big mawl anyway, caw mawn.

T
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

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K3ZS
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2008, 11:42:24 AM »

I used the think my NC-183 was really sensitive in 1958 when I first heard "This is Radio Moscow" while my parents were in the other room watching "Bonanza" on the "one-eyed monster".
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w3jn
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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2008, 01:08:37 PM »

I had a little 70-something Chevy pickup with a 307 and three-on-a-tree




I miss the ol' 3 on a tree.  Always a non-synchro First, and Second was a good reach up and usually accompanied by copiuous amounts of gear whine.  But your center front passenger didn't have to deal with the shifter knockin' the nads or your elbow hittin 'em in the gut.

"How the hell are you driving that thing with it in Park??"
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K1JJ
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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2008, 02:45:50 PM »


I miss the ol' 3 on a tree.  Always a non-synchro First, and Second was a good reach up and usually accompanied by copiuous amounts of gear whine.  But your center front passenger didn't have to deal with the shifter knockin' the nads or your elbow hittin 'em in the gut.

"How the hell are you driving that thing with it in Park??"

heh-heh...

Reminds me - There was a time in 1967 where I was a part-time car delivery guy for a car dealership.  One day I had the job of driving the company V8 Chevy pickup truck with three on the tree. On the return trip my buddy rode with me and I just had to impress him with my "power shifting," especially from first to second gear.

I held the gas pedal down and rammed the stick into second gear as the handle broke clean off at the linkage fork pin. Looked like an amputee.  I was mortified and my buddy just laughed like heck. We had to hobble our way back to the shop in second gear.

My buddy hopped out of the truck quickly, saying he didn't want no part of it. I had to walk in and tell the manager what happened - rather, the linkage got jammed in reverse in the parking lot and I pushed it too hard... :-0

He immediately put a mechanic on it and replaced the arm.  I could tell he knew what really happened. I got fired about a week later for another vehicle episode which I will not get into right now... :-)

T

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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.
Ian VK3KRI
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2008, 01:42:43 AM »


How about using a 50 Hz audio generator to introduce a small amount of hum on your signal to give it that exotic 50~ sound like Radio Moscow and some other SWBC stations of the days of yore?  You would have to get rid of every trace of 60hZ hum to make it sound authentic.
I am glad someone thinks 50hz Hum is exotic - hang on while I hang a clip lead off the mic leads...

                                                                               Ian VK3KRI.

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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2008, 01:24:20 PM »

50~ has a distinctive sound in N. America since our power is 60~.

Here is list of a.c. power frequencies in countries worldwide.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2008, 10:01:09 PM »

oh geez.. noise toys just like on the CB. Hmm.. lemme see if I can get the "mule fart" module to work with the kenwood. There is a VC-100 around here somewhere..

It's all well and good just for fun, but I'm proud of the noises my radios make naturally. The noises should come naturally and the envelope of the keying-up should reflect their origins, even if the rig has to be engineered to enhance them. Please let's not cheapen the true radio noises with imitations.

There's nothing like the smooth uptake of a dynamotor set, or the grunt of a very large set that keys the primary of the choke input HV PS.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2008, 10:45:31 PM »

That's right.

(that's right)


http://www.amwindow.org/misc/av/vocshort.mp3
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K9ACT
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« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2008, 12:27:16 AM »

I came close to losing my kerchunk.

When my second contactor started mis-behaving a friend donated a really nice 50A mercury relay.  I spent half the day Saturday installing it in my 8000 rig and hardly got a puff.  In fact, you have to hold your ear right up to it to even hear it.

The good news is that I had to take it out because the un-key time was so long that I feared for the rest of the rig.  For nearly half a second, the HV is still on with the exciter and antenna long gone.

I ended up making a few other changes and putting the old one back and it seems to be working and kerchunking again.

The actual problem seems to have been caused by one or both of, an 866 flashing over and a solid state delay relay that I use in the control circuitry that waits 400 ms after key down to turn on the HV. 

Having said all this, we had a discussion on the NTF Friday wherein one of the fellows suggested that the big bang has nothing to do with contactors or acustics at all.  It is the inductive spike on key-down that modulates the RF.

Any thoughts?

js



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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2008, 09:43:05 PM »

Disconnect your mic and try it.


I came close to losing my kerchunk.

When my second contactor started mis-behaving a friend donated a really nice 50A mercury relay.  I spent half the day Saturday installing it in my 8000 rig and hardly got a puff.  In fact, you have to hold your ear right up to it to even hear it.

The good news is that I had to take it out because the un-key time was so long that I feared for the rest of the rig.  For nearly half a second, the HV is still on with the exciter and antenna long gone.

I ended up making a few other changes and putting the old one back and it seems to be working and kerchunking again.

The actual problem seems to have been caused by one or both of, an 866 flashing over and a solid state delay relay that I use in the control circuitry that waits 400 ms after key down to turn on the HV. 

Having said all this, we had a discussion on the NTF Friday wherein one of the fellows suggested that the big bang has nothing to do with contactors or acustics at all.  It is the inductive spike on key-down that modulates the RF.

Any thoughts?

js




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K9ACT
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« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2008, 12:01:48 AM »

Disconnect your mic and try it.




That inspiring thought occurred to me today.  I did and it didn't.

Duh!  So much for science.

js

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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2008, 11:22:47 AM »

It didn't what? The kerchunk didn't go away or it did when the mic was disconnected?
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flintstone mop
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« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2008, 11:57:29 AM »

This is a slightly delayed response BUT I could never speed shift with three on a tree. The linkage would lock up between gears and I would have to pullover to fix.
And Bonanza was the great beginning the famous NBC Peacock for color TV.
A color TV standard
Stereo TV sound
FM stereo
The few things the FCC did right.
We squeeked through a standard for HDTV. We couldn't do it the Japanses way. Too much bandwidth


Fred
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Fred KC4MOP
K9ACT
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« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2008, 12:49:01 PM »

It didn't what? The kerchunk didn't go away or it did when the mic was disconnected?

It didn't kerchunk when with the audio turned off.

js
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2008, 03:03:34 PM »

Thanks. That's what I would have bet on. Most of the kerchunks I hear have a live, acoustical sound to them, indicating they are coming through the mic. An inductive kerchunk would be more of a thump. You can also get a thump from your receiver's AGC reacting too.
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2008, 11:39:32 PM »

This is a slightly delayed response BUT I could never speed shift with three on a tree. The linkage would lock up between gears and I would have to pullover to fix.
And Bonanza was the great beginning the famous NBC Peacock for color TV.
A color TV standard
Stereo TV sound
FM stereo
The few things the FCC did right.
We squeeked through a standard for HDTV. We couldn't do it the Japanses way. Too much bandwidth


Fred

I worked with Japanese HDTV at Sony. Ours here is no match for it on a 2000 pixels wide CRT based display system. We would tweek the VPH-1292 3-CRT projector for an hour before the demo. Even so we got the short end of the stick.
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2009, 11:48:30 PM »

thought this might be of interest for those desiring the ker-chunk but using solid state relays.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?page=HOME
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w4bfs
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« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2009, 07:34:07 AM »

looks like PAIA lives on ....ohweeeeou ching ching ... beefus
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Beefus

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W3RSW
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« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2009, 08:50:43 AM »

Wow , thanks for the neato flatulence generator site.

Here's the one we should all get and trade effects on air, ca-mawn.
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/WSG_Reborn/WEIRDSOUNDGENERATORREBORN.php
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RICK  *W3RSW*
k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2009, 04:37:17 PM »

 My old "big" tube rig was amazingly quiet on key up (even though I was switching a 10,000 volt power on and off!).  All of the relays were spring mounted (not screwed directly to the racks) in an effort to reduce background hum (relays usually vibrate a little) and other noises. 

Tell the truth Steve, those relays were quiet as they were suspended with JS clip leads!  Wink

Here's how I quieted my antenna changeover relay.  The springs came off a couple of old boom mounted workshop lamps I pulled out of a dumpster.  The wooden box has a door that, when closed, muffles out almost all the sound.  Otherwise I wouldn't be able to stand the sound of the thing clanking and buzzing.


* Ant relay.JPG (1147.92 KB, 2576x1716 - viewed 507 times.)
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
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