That KerCHUNK "sound of power" when keying, and modern transmitters

[steve_qix]

Well, the other day when I should have been at work (but wasn't), the generally inane mid-day 75 meter QSO in which I was involved somehow drifted to the subject of the "kerCHUNK" sound (the sound of big relays kicking in on transmit).

None of the folks' transmitters involved in the QSO produced particularly large amounts of the "sound of power" when going to transmit, even though a considerable amount of power was actually being run at the time (passive voice!) by a number of the participants.

So, a few of us decided to rectify the situation, by

1) configuring a large (but otherwise unnecessary) contactor attached to the side of a rack, and placing a microphone in the general vicinity of the contactor. -and-
2) mixing this extra microphone into the main console to ensure the maximum audio effect.

One of the folks in the QSO simply moved an extra mic near to an already existing contactor, however this also produced some undesirable feedback brought about by modulation transformer talk back.

Someone commented that what we were doing was analogous to "putting potatoes in one's Speedo", and the act was immediately deemed as "adding potatoes" to the transmitter!

I came up with an idea of digitally recording the desired sound, and somehow storing this in a small D/A converter/audio synth IC which could then be configured to produce the desired audio output on demand.

Such a device could allow folks running software defined, modified rice box, quiet class E rigs or just quiet tube rigs (like rangers into linears, etc) to have the illusive "sound of power" - giving them another 20dB of apparent signal strength (like the potatoes in the Speedo!).

This is better than any "roger-beep", and I figure if "they" can do it, why can't we???  This is also done with digital cameras - a fake "click" or "click CLICK" is produced by many digital cameras to give the "feel" of a "real" camera.  Digital Equipment Corporation did this with a small soleniod attached to the VT278 and VT52 terminal keyboards to simulate an IBM Selectric-like feel (the keyboard actually shook a bit when you hit a key - completely fake, since everything was actually electronic and there were no "real" relays involved!).

So, we NEED this !

Currently, my implementation consists of a good microphone next to the side of the rack to which the "effect" contactor is attached.  Upon transmit, the microphone's output is enabled for approximately one second, and is then silenced to avoid unwanted pickup of room effects and other background noise, once the kerCHUNK has completed.  This is very crude indeed, and involves both size (the large rack is needed for a sounding board), the waste of a good microphone (I'm using a 77DX), and of course a lot of other stuff (mixers, etc.) to make it happen.

We need that chip!!!  Put the box in the mic line and you're off!  Any ideas? 

Regards,

Steve

[N3DRB The Derb]

http://www.claysradioshop.com/Toy%20Sounds.htm

[W1ATR]

Wow. Chips and mixing and extra mics, jeez.  Sounds like taking the really long road to a simple goal. If you replace an existing tx/rx relay with something like a NEMA size 2 motor starter, then it's not really adding potatoes because the new 5lb hammer is actually switching something. Just make sure you go around once and a while and tighten up the cabinet screws.

I like to play around with resisters and caps to get everything to switch sequentially, but only the last click (final) goes out on the air. Maybe we can turn that all around so it all heads out thru the mic... click,click,click,click, BANG.

Derb's got the lowdown right there. We need a nice wolf howl (ahoot, ahoot, ahhhwoooooo) on keyup and about 20 roger beeps on the letgo, lmfao.

On a side note: Just something else useful I've discovered. If you take all the "OO" complaint's and fold them like a little pyramid, then attach them to the walls that way, they make for great sound absorption material to kill room reverb



 

[k4kyv]

There used to be an old timer in 5-land whose homebrew AM transmitter emitted a "Boinnnggg" sound whenever he transmitted.  I think a T/R relay generated an acoustical vibration in his VFO.  It was a one-of-a-kind unique sound never heard on any other station, but he was famous for it.  I think he changed over to slopbucket before he joined the SK list.

How about using a 50 Hz audio generator to introduce a small amount of hum on your signal to give it that exotic 50~ sound like Radio Moscow and some other SWBC stations of the days of yore?  You would have to get rid of every trace of 60hZ hum to make it sound authentic.

[N3DRB The Derb]

it makes me feel ....wierd... to know i heard that Radio Moscow 50 cycle hum for years and never thought a thing of it. It was just there. Me and my wife were talkin about obsolete social references the other day and we realized we (mid/early 40's) were the last group to know what life was like without home computing and the internet. A world were children went OUTSIDE to play.

now they mimic it on their Wii's.

 

[W3RSW]

Don, was it 50 cyc hum.?   Guess so on a singe phase European standard, but the overtones sounded much higher; You could hear it even on a crappy, tinny 4 tube receiver.  I always assumed it was multi-phased AC, not too well filtered into DC.  At least three phase would yield a 150 cycle underlayment to their sig's. Guess I'll have to research it a bit more.

[KF1Z]

I was listening to that QSO....

Steve, your extra relay needed some delay between hitting the switch, and the extra relay kicking on......
no "Kerchunck"  came through on your key-up...
Just a pw little "tick"...

----

[WA1GFZ]

Kerchunk is the same as when you chamber a round in a pump gun.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Reminds me of those ads you see for the 'Browning Ping' to make your radio sound like the Browning twins. Or maybe those Ferrari kit cars from the 80s? 

Yep, you just lose some of the magic when you move to The Dark Side. Not to mention the fun of having your friends hear, over the air, when your rig craps out.

The most notable kerCHUNK (or, more accurately, *THWACK*) that comes to mind is the W2INR 21E. That thing really smacks the aether everytime he keys it up. You just know there's power behind it.

Brentina's Class E rig, though dark, does emit a nice 'High Tension' sound when he's transmitting. Similiar to that low zzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr hum you hear walking past a substation. Always makes me think of the old Sci-Fi movies with Tesla coils, Jacob's Ladder, and those big knife switch panels.

[KL7OF]

You boys have WAAAAY to much time on yer hands......

[steve_qix]

Reminds me of those ads you see for the 'Browning Ping' to make your radio sound like the Browning twins. Or maybe those Ferrari kit cars from the 80s? 

Yep, you just lose some of the magic when you move to The Dark Side. Not to mention the fun of having your friends hear, over the air, when your rig craps out.

The most notable kerCHUNK (or, more accurately, *THWACK*) that comes to mind is the W2INR 21E. That thing really smacks the aether everytime he keys it up. You just know there's power behind it.

Brentina's Class E rig, though dark, does emit a nice 'High Tension' sound when he's transmitting. Similiar to that low zzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr hum you hear walking past a substation. Always makes me think of the old Sci-Fi movies with Tesla coils, Jacob's Ladder, and those big knife switch panels.

Not always     My old "big" tube rig was amazingly quiet on key up (even though I was switching a 10,000 volt power on and off!).  All of the relays were spring mounted (not screwed directly to the racks) in an effort to reduce background hum (relays usually vibrate a little) and other noises.   Now, another reason for the quiet T/R was to completely eliminate any mechanically transmitted noises which would disturb others in the neighboring room who might be sleeping (when I should be) at 1:00 AM      I don't have this problem now (room is quite far from the rest of civilization), but at the time, I did - and it would awaken my wife (the "clunking" of the big (very big) contactors).

The result was a fairly quiet transmitter on T/R.

On the other hand, my "heavy metal" class E rig (the one shown in my side picture) makes a lot of noise.  Thing is, I don't use that one most of the time and the others are fairly quiet (as Bruce pointed out).

The other thing I have going on in my shack is the microphone location, type (HIGHLY direction) and usage (I *eat* the microphone)... These combined factors make for a very quiet background, even with my noisy transmitters.  I don't hear a lot of T/R noise in Bill KC2IFR's station either - and I know he uses a similar mic and technique on the air.

Also,  loud relays (loud enough, with enough noise to be BIG on the air) banging over and over on T/R hurt my ears    (no sympathy here, I'm sure!). 

So, wah wah wah - I want my dewicate widdle ears pwotected, the transmitter to weigh 25 pounds (but put out legal limit!), and I want the sound of a 1930s 50kw rig firing up      Gimm'y the potatoes !!!

Regards,

Steve

[KB2WIG]

  "   
Someone commented that what we were doing was analogous to "putting potatoes in one's Speedo", and the act was immediately deemed as "adding potatoes" to the transmitter!  "

I hope they are placed in the front........................

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I determine the sound of power by the position of the S-meter. Tricks are for kids.

[John Holotko]

I prefer the sound of a good belch thrown in there every now and then. Now THAT is power !

[W1UJR]

 My old "big" tube rig was amazingly quiet on key up (even though I was switching a 10,000 volt power on and off!).  All of the relays were spring mounted (not screwed directly to the racks) in an effort to reduce background hum (relays usually vibrate a little) and other noises. 

Tell the truth Steve, those relays were quiet as they were suspended with JS clip leads! 

[W1DAN]

Steve:

My thought was to have a digital chip with the kerCHUNK and another with the sound of a large blower added to your audio.

And I guess you can add some accoustical transformer hum with another digi-chip too!

73,
Dan
w1DAN

[w1vtp]

You boys have WAAAAY to much time on yer hands......

YUPPER!!

[W8IXY]

Ah, yes....the big "kerchunk" and the background buzz/hum.   I had a chance to stand near the power components and contactors of one of the 250kw VOA shortwave transmitters in Bethany, OH, once, during switching.   Mmmmmm,  POWER!!!!!!    ....or the 6 foot tall big iron of the mod transformer on that thing ringing metallically to the audio.....

Those old 50kw RCA and Westinghouse broadcast transmitters were similar in sound, up close.

The old Radio Moscow 50 Hz audio buzz on many of their transmitters in the early 60's is a lost sound now.  I should have made some recordings of them.  I had a 7153 crystal from my novice days and if another station's receiver didn't have a BFO, he still could copy me using the beat from Radio Moscow on 7150.

Oh well, my Viking Valiant still "bongs" when I throw the plate switch......

73
Ted  W8IXY

[w3jn]

The Valiant also has a "boinggg" sound on keyup.

edit.  Bah, W8IXY beat me to the punch 

[WD8BIL]

The old Radio Moscow 50 Hz audio buzz on many of their transmitters in the early 60's is a lost sound now.  I should have made some recordings of them.

Here ya go Ted!

Voice of Communizm

Radio Moscow

[steve_qix]

 My old "big" tube rig was amazingly quiet on key up (even though I was switching a 10,000 volt power on and off!).  All of the relays were spring mounted (not screwed directly to the racks) in an effort to reduce background hum (relays usually vibrate a little) and other noises. 

Tell the truth Steve, those relays were quiet as they were suspended with JS clip leads! 

Well, some of them WERE suspended using looped clip leads !    We recently had to put up a "happy birthday" sign here at the house for a party, and I used clip leads for THAT, too     Sherrie was mildly amused 

Regards,

Steve

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I determine the sound of power by the position of the S-meter. Tricks are for kids.

Well, of course! I mean, the S in S-meter means Sound, anyone knows that. The more S it reads, the more P you have. 

The old Radio Moscow 50 Hz audio buzz on many of their transmitters in the early 60's is a lost sound now.  I should have made some recordings of them.

Here ya go Ted!

Voice of Communizm

Radio Moscow

The first station I picked up last week at the new 4-Land location was The Voice of Russia, apparently the New and Improved version of Radio Moscow (whose link leads there):

http://www.ruvr.ru/index.php?lng=eng

Even reads like their old propaganda. The broadcast had a very Cold War sound to it, including the 'Mailbag' part of the program. Didn't notice any hum on their transmitters, but the receiver was js'ed to a set of rabbit ears...

[John K5PRO]

I would think we heard the three phase hum of 300 Hz, from Radio Moscows 50 Hz mains. This would be the residual ripple from the big rig power supplies, unless there was some phase unbalance in the feeds or the power supplies. Then we'd hear some 50 creeping in. Anyway, I completely forgot that sound til ya'll mentioned it. Sounds and smells are some of the best memories I have left...

[W1RKW]

I determine the sound of power by the position of the S-meter. Tricks are for kids.

like a fart pipe on a honda civic

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I always like The Voice of Communism best.