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K1OIK debates Contesters




 
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2008, 09:50:10 AM »

I'm sorry that this has turned into such a mess. After my initial post and Burt's sending it to NG1G, I took it offline and suggested the same to Burt. My original response, thought obviously anti-contest-in-its-current-form, points out the clear fact that, regardless of whether it's a net or a contester, neither is right in driving others off any frequency. And I'm sure that NG1G is a decent guy, at least he seems so in the video. But anyone who has contested, even at the 'Field Day' level, understands clearly that being nice and moving means you'd make no contacts in a contest, since you'd always be responding to someone taking your frequency or setting up nearby. The only reason some are able to roam and pick off contacts is due to the fact that others are sitting on any open frequency screaming 'CQ CONTEST! CQ CONTEST!

Back in the 80s on 20 meters, the 'net' issue was just as bad. Everyone had a [no traffic] net, and a frequency 'expected' for it. I started out moving for nets if I was in QSO to be nice, and got sick of it. Everywhere I moved, someone else had a net scheduled. Nets to me aren't a whole lot different than contesting with respect to the frequency ownership expectations and the never-ending problems they create. They do seem to fill a need for those who have trouble starting their own activity and need to be led.

I don't believe anyone should be denied their right to enjoy whatever is considered legal on the bands. But to act like contesting is no different than any other mode or interest is ridiculous. If contesting is such a good way to keep the bands active and promote amateur radio, why not move it to the VHF/UHF spectrum which seems to be under far more threat of loss through lack of use? Wouldn't that really help ham radio? Why not structure contests in such a way that they can't deny all other hams the use of a particular band during a "contest weekend" (which, in my opinion, happens far too often). Better still, if contesters are at all concerned about their image, why not make these changes themselves instead of continuing down the same road simply because they can? I seem to recall someone saying that contesters were good hams who promote the hobby and do good things.

There are lids in every facet, including AM. That shouldn't be used as a way to excuse other bad behavior. Considering the way that some complain about AM 'taking up too much space' now, what would happen if the bands were filled with wall-to-wall AM nearly every weekend for, say - contesting? Do you think those not interested might get a bit tired of it and expect a more equitable solution?

I agree that contesters are not in the majority, one station can make a lot of noise around the world. 100 could easily wipe out a band. As Jack said, it's the 'all or nothing' mentality, because they can. Keep in mind that one of my best friends in the world, who I introduced to amateur radio and Elmered, is a big time contester now. 'Hate' isn't an option, and really isn't worth the effort for a "hobby". To me, it just seems like feeding the ego is far more important to some, and contesting appears to have a disproportionate number of these types - no doubt due to the nature of the beast. They give contesting a bad name, and the contest people seem not to care enough to deal with it in any meaningful way.
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« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2008, 12:45:20 PM »

If someone jumps on your frequency, or QRM's you etc, you have a legitimate gripe.  As far as I'm concerned, roll tape and send the incident in to the contest's governing agency and request that individual be disqualified under the contest's good sportsmanship clause.

<speaking in general terms, for the most part>

It's been done by many, to no avail. Ask Buddly about the 8 Lander who came onto 3715 when I was in conversation with Slab and a few others and started calling CQ Contest. After the third or fourth time I told him the frequency was in use, he replied 'I don't care'. Other contesters I've talked to say 'if you know it's a contest weekend, why would you try to get on? Are you looking for trouble?'. Pete has even posted contest times on here and said 'it might be a good weekend to get some yard work done' or such. I disagree strongly about others being able to operate during a contest. Some of us have managed to hold our ground on frequency for a while, but eventually enough California Kilowatts crowd around to the point we can't hear the other stations, or it's just so nasty and unpleasant to listen to that folks leave. That's the contester's way, and many are proud of it. 

You can pretend that contesting is a nice, clean, polite pastime, Mark. And I'm sure you operate in a decent, respectful way as do some others. But we both know how it really works. Anyone who doubts it can listen in and discover. The general assumption is 'you've been warned, this is our weekend'. And the ego-driven behavior follows. Good bad, legal, illegal, as NG1G said 'it is what it is'. And the contesters clearly do nothing of substance to regulate themselves. But hey - as long as no one tell you otherwise, you have the right to do so. That's the prevailing argument in favor of contesting these days.

Food fight? If that were the case, we'd all enjoy playing. Wink

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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2008, 01:12:18 PM »

Pulled this info from various sources. It shows the number of submitted logs for some of the various phone contests. Obviously, there is no data on the number of participants that did not submit a log but spent some time operating in a particular contest.

2008 ARRL International Phone - 2056 logs
2007 ARRL Sweepstakes Phone - 1571 logs
2007 ARRL 160 Contest - 1197 logs
2007 ARRL Field Day - 2337 logs
2007 CQ WPX SSB - 3078 logs
2006 CQ Worldwide Phone - 4500 logs

The point here is that in a particular "major" contest weekend (or time frame), the number of participant stations is not trivial. Note that in a multi-multi operation, the number of participants in any given station could number up to a dozen or more different operators. In my opinion, contesting is a major facet in the active, on-the-air, representation of amateur radio activity. Contesting is here to stay.
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« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2008, 01:42:16 PM »

I'm sorry that this has turned into such a mess.

which is what Burt wanted

did Burt learn from the DOG



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ka3zlr
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2008, 02:20:03 PM »

So is AM, and this is unrelated, unneeded, unwarranted, and unnecessary.

Did absolutely nothing to further the ideals of this Forum.

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« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2008, 03:21:22 PM »

So is AM, and this is unrelated, unneeded, unwarranted, and unnecessary.

Did absolutely nothing to further the ideals of this Forum.



Uh! Is this some sort of word twister test? What are you trying to say Jack?
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2008, 03:25:43 PM »

Work or Word...?

In a Word....this discussion Stinks....plain enough Pete....or do we Need more data....?


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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2008, 03:33:03 PM »

I'm sorry that this has turned into such a mess.

Personally, I don't see any mess here. We have here a bunch of active hams in a "spirited discussion"; fall and winter conditions are coming; and so are more contests. Of course, we can just blame the ARRL for starting the activity of contesting. If you think you have contest issues today, you should have been around in the late 50's and 60's when the majority of all phone contest activity was done on AM.

Obviously, members who are not interested in this thread don't have to read or participate in it. There's always choices.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2008, 04:07:50 PM »

And when the Contest Collective Welcomes AM across the usable Phone Frequencies in Equal portion, with Equal Footing, then maybe there wouldn't be such Adamant Protest from this end of the membership.

Try it sometime an see what happens....Phony Stewardship you'll find real quick...
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2008, 08:37:02 PM »

No word game unless you don't read my words. It was a question and a very simple one. No data needed since I did not quantify anything (note the phase, as much as they do in the question). Your continued avoidance in answering only leads me to believe you condone illegal QRMing by contesters.


Then you and K3MSB are at odds. He claims it's only a small fraction of operation and you claim it's the most popular of activities. Even if it is the most popular, that gives it no greater legal claim to the airwaves than any other activity. Do you really think people would be P&Ming as much as they do about contesting if they had never been QRMed by contesters?

Steve, the above quote is from your first post on this thread;  I've added the highlight to your claim.

Please provide me the data to support this claim. 

You may play all the word games you like.  You may split hairs when I corner you as you like.  But in the end, you can not, or will not, provide me with the data to support your claim.


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« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2008, 08:09:41 AM »

I was the Prizes and Entertainment Chairman at the Boxborough 2008 Convention where Burt's encounters with the corntesters took place. 

This e-mail message I received from a YCCC (Yankee Clipper Contest Club) member complaining about the 5PM Prize Drawing nicely exemplifies the elitist attitude of some of these clowns.

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php/topic,16924.msg116761.html#msg116761

This is the only such "rant" I have received even though the first time Saturday prize drawing was really a disaster.

Great job, Burt with the "debate" and the videos.




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« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2008, 09:02:11 AM »

I was the Prizes and Entertainment Chairman at the Boxborough 2008 Convention where Burt's encounters with the corntesters took place. 

This e-mail message I received from a YCCC (Yankee Clipper Contest Club) member complaining about the 5PM Prize Drawing nicely exemplifies the elitist attitude of some of these clowns.

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php/topic,16924.msg116761.html#msg116761

This is the only such "rant" I have received even though the first time Saturday prize drawing was really a disaster.

Great job, Burt with the "debate" and the videos.






Thank you for the compliment. The Saturday drawing was not a disaster but was unpleasant.
If the deal "Must be present to win" than there was no need to wait 5 minutes after each ticket was drawn. Present means present, not in the flea market, not in range of .52 direct, present means present. Give the person 1 minute to make himself known and move on. Since 2500 people came and 250 were present 10 tickets generally had to be drawn to get a winner. It went on forever. Nearfest does a similar drawing but they get that present means just that.
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2008, 10:38:35 AM »

You want to fix the problem of bad behavior by segmenting contesters,  as opposed to effecting the way in which they operate.   In other words,  penalize all contesters for the actions of the minority.   

Mark, operators have been segmented for many years in a number of ways, be it license class, mode, or whatever else. I don't think many see that as being 'penalized'. When it warranted, the CW portion of the bands obviously made sense to many, and when the use no longer supported such, it was changed to reflect this.

Quote
You, like others in this thread, consistently confuse the issues of: 1) first come first serve on a frequency obtained in a legal manner and 2) Intentional QRM, bad operating practicing, call it what you will.   You donít fix the second, by changing the first.

Let me give you an analogy that will hopefully explain my position, since I'm one of the last people who believes anyone should be 'penalized' for exercising their "rights".

Say I live in a town with no zoning. Folks can do as they please with their property and no one really seems to mind since no one really goes overboard. One day I decide to paint my house shocking pink with purple stripes, raise hogs in the front yard in the middle of a neighborhood, or some other extreme (for the situation) behavior you can think of. Suddenly there's a demand for zoning where there never was before. Why? Because I 'exercised my rights' and in the process, adversely affect the rights and property values of my neighbors, made the neighborhood ugly, smelly, and undesirable, and so on. New zoning is passed to prevent such behavior in the future, and everyone else who didn't want zoning ends up suffering with it. All because I had the 'right' to do what I did.

Having the right doesn't necessarily make it right, correct, a good idea, or whatever else. While I'm not big on zoning and am a big supporter of private property rights, there are certain unwritten rules about being civilized and getting along with others. You don't have to follow them, but like the HOA discussion, you shouldn't willing place yourself in the situation and then expect your 'rights' to trump everyone else's.

In my view, this is what contesting has become to amateur radio. And it's obvious that the contesting community is going to milk their 'right to do so' as long as they can - even to the detriment of their beloved pastime. 'As long as we can do it like this, we're going to do it like this' is your mantra. I'd remind you of the fact that operating is still a privilege and not a right, and that privilege can be changed, suspended, or revoked at any time depending on the circumstances. If you need proof, look at the AM power issue of the late 80s/early 90s, which really had no basis beyond personal preference.

And using the "we're doing good for amateur radio and attracting newcomers" argument makes about as much sense to the rest of the amateur population as me trying to excuse the pigs in the front yard to the neighbors by saying "I'm making the neighborhood attractive to others by helping to feed the world!".

I like Rodger's remarks in another thread about his Collins gear and contesting. That's exactly how I've felt at times, because of the image created by 'the few' you mention. Eventually I got over it and went back to enjoying what I enjoy. You might find this hard to believe, but I've....uh....[contested] in the past, mainly Field Day but also worked the VT QSO party before to help out the local club and such. I used to enjoy DXing as well, but it took the same ego-driven turn as contesting where 'me-me-me' at the expense of all else is all that matters to some (the few). I'm looking forward to some DX this coming winter.

Just because you can do it Mark, doesn't mean you should. I refer to the current approach, not to contesting in total. The reason so many people are turned off by contesting isn't that we hate contesting/contesters as you'd prefer to believe. It's the way it's presented to us by your little specialty group, and how it's always all about them at the expense of everyone else. Your 'right' to do so, how you exercise it, and how it impacts the rights of others is what it's all about.

Pulled this info from various sources. It shows the number of submitted logs for some of the various phone contests. Obviously, there is no data on the number of participants that did not submit a log but spent some time operating in a particular contest.

2008 ARRL International Phone - 2056 logs
2007 ARRL Sweepstakes Phone - 1571 logs
2007 ARRL 160 Contest - 1197 logs
2007 ARRL Field Day - 2337 logs
2007 CQ WPX SSB - 3078 logs
2006 CQ Worldwide Phone - 4500 logs

Thanks for the figures, Pete. 2000-5000 of 700,000+ is still a pretty small group. The 'mess' I was referring to has more to do with past discussions on here that pulled AMfone down into the mud for no gain or moving the basis for the board forward (think 'dorkspeak' and its later regurgitation by another poster) . But I think your point is valid: it affects AMers as well as others, and a healthy, reasonable discussion is good.

 
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2008, 01:54:15 PM »


You can be condescending all you want Todd;  it doesnít change the fact that you have not, and can not, show that contesting adversely effects amateur radio.


 Steve has indicated a lot of people are P&Ming about contesting.   How many? Remember, ď2000-5000 of 700,000+ is still a pretty small groupĒ  Provide evidence (data) Todd;  if you can, Iíll gladly be part of the effort that tries to get things changed.  Remember,  I said evidence (data), not opinion and rhetoric.   Until then, SK.


I apologize for appearing to be condescending Mark, it wasn't my intention at all. I struck out the word 'little' above which I used to mean 'minority', not to demean. Pete's numbers posted for logs were cited by me to illustrate that contesting is by no means the majority of operating done by hams, merely the most noticed and objected to. I do agree with Pete that contesting is here to stay, unfortunate as the current approach and methods are to everyone else.

The 'data' you so strongly desire is staring you in the face here and available on the air, just ask any non-contester what they think. You can choose to ignore it simply because it's not in the form of an ARRL-sanctioned poll or such, or for the sake of supporting your argument. My analogy stands as a clear comparison between the two, especially since the purple striped house with a hog farm in the front yard would be grandfathered by any zoning enacted afterwards. Keep in mind that we're not talking about contesters using any particular frequency, we're talking about a group monopolizing the entire band and driving others off, for their own edification, backed up by a culture that tacitly supports and encourages it. The fact that they don't put it in writing doesn't make it any less so. Seeing all you have of how people feel should (in my opinion) make you want to find a resolution equitable to all instead of denying/deferring in favor of 'data'. This comes through with other contesters as well. I feel like I could be standing in a downpour saying 'It's raining' and be told to prove it by providing written evidence.

Contesters putting 'more points' over a courteous use of the bands, like the big-gun DXers who stop at nothing to 'get the contact', are their own worst enemy. Other modes suffer the same, it's just nowhere near as prevalent. Common sense and perception, not data, tells me this. You seem perfectly able to apply this same logic to why you don't like using 75m, yet unwilling to employ it in this discussion. I'll agree with you that we've probably run this out to the length of our abilities or willingness to go further, so SK works here as well. No hard feelings, we just disagree.  Wink


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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2008, 02:21:34 PM »

From the ARRL Web Site. I would suspect this info also relates to other major contest sponsors. To read all the FAQ's, go here: http://www.remote.arrl.org/contests/hf-faq.html

HF Contesting - Good Practices, Interpretations and Suggestions
5) Interacting with non-contesters

a) Interference

Question 1: How close should I operate to non-contesters?

Question 2: A non-contester is complaining about interference, but my signal is clean. What should I do?

Question 3: I didn't hear anybody before I started calling CQ, but a ragchewer claims he or she was there first!

Large contests can often fill up most or all of an HF band, particularly on phone. This often causes friction with non-contest operators. Like most situations, each side needs to engage in some give-and-take to keep the peace. Contesters need to make reasonable accommodations for non-contesters. Listen before you leap. Non-contest QSOs are more relaxed with longer pauses, so a couple of seconds of "dead air" doesn't mean the frequency is clear. Be reasonable and give the other station a break whenever you can.

Non-contesters need to recognize that large competitive events are a legitimate activity and that they may need to be flexible in their operating expectations. When responding to an interference complaint, assuming you think you have a clean signal and are sufficiently far away from other QSOs, you might POLITELY ask if the station has the receiver noise blanker and preamp OFF or suggest that they use some front-end attenuation. Don't be rude about it or imply that they're poor operators you'll just cause more trouble. Person-to-person skills are often strained in situations like this.

Realize that nobody owns a frequency. A ragchew in the middle of the contest band has every right to be there. Similarly, if a group has a regular schedule or net, it's a good idea for them to have a backup frequency or mode if the band is busier than expected.

b) Calling frequencies and nets

It's a good idea to avoid major net frequencies, such as the Maritime Net on 14.300 MHz. Be aware of any emergency communications declarations or where regional emergency nets might meet and give those frequencies a wide berth. Calling frequencies (QRP, SSTV, County Hunters, etc.) are often busy with non-contest activity, as well. To avoid unnecessary conflict, the savvy contester learns (and remembers) where non-contest activity is likely to be.

c) Band plans

Question 1: I heard W1AW working Europe on 40 phone, listening on 7010 kHz. Isn't that in violation of the Region I band plan?

Question 2: The ARRL Web site shows 7.040 MHz as the international RTTY calling frequency. Do I have to avoid it?

Question 3: Rules for an ARRL contest suggest frequencies from 14225 to 14275. Can I answer stations calling on 14290?

Band plans are just that - plans. They are designed for normal circumstances when band loading is much lighter than during a contest. During major contests, the bands will be very crowded, resulting in conditions that the band plan is not intended to address. Avoid willful interference and be as courteous as possible to non-contest QSOs within the limits of the contest rules and licensing regulations.

Calling frequencies are also intended to allow stations to find their peers under customary circumstances. During a contest, be aware of where the calling frequencies are, but if no contacts are going on there, you have every right to try and make contest QSOs.
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« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2008, 03:42:57 PM »

Pete posted:
Quote
Large contests can often fill up most or all of an HF band, particularly on phone. This often causes friction with non-contest operators. Like most situations, each side needs to engage in some give-and-take to keep the peace. Contesters need to make reasonable accommodations for non-contesters. Listen before you leap. Non-contest QSOs are more relaxed with longer pauses, so a couple of seconds of "dead air" doesn't mean the frequency is clear. Be reasonable and give the other station a break whenever you can.

Non-contesters need to recognize that large competitive events are a legitimate activity and that they may need to be flexible in their operating expectations. When responding to an interference complaint, assuming you think you have a clean signal and are sufficiently far away from other QSOs, you might POLITELY ask if the station has the receiver noise blanker and preamp OFF or suggest that they use some front-end attenuation. Don't be rude about it or imply that they're poor operators you'll just cause more trouble. Person-to-person skills are often strained in situations like this.

Realize that nobody owns a frequency. A ragchew in the middle of the contest band has every right to be there. Similarly, if a group has a regular schedule or net, it's a good idea for them to have a backup frequency or mode if the band is busier than expected.



Wow! This is one of the few times I agree with the ARRgghhL. Unfortunately, getting QRMtesters to abide by it is another story, (and pretty much the theme of this thread).
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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2008, 05:23:59 PM »

Man, this thread is a bummer.  Need I remind some of you that like Mark and Pete, I also contest.  Just try not to paint an overall picture, that we're all band hogs.  In some cases a contest will bring a band to life.  A case in point, in the weeks before the SSB North American QSO Party, 40 was deadsville around here - just a few QSOs here and there on weekends.  That wasn't the case when the contest was on.  Most contesters typically run 600W or less.  In many cases they just run barefoot or QRP like I do.  As was said earlier, there are there jerks/lids who contest, just as there are some AM QSOs I'd rather not hear (one that I heard a few months back on 3885, where they belched, commented about getting stoned on good weed back in the day, and basically talked like they were 54 going on 14 comes to mind).  Again,there are bad apples in every barrel.
 
I could grump about the fact that many AMers treat 100W of carrier like it's QRP (I wasa bummed by the fact that I was ineligible for the Heavy Metal Rally), and balk at the thought of even operating anywhere above 7 MHz.  But hey, that's their business.  Just don't beat me up because some yutz running stacked yagis, or a 4-square array is doing his best impression of the channelmaster.  I just go elsewhere when I encounter that.  I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of the "you're on MY frequency" deal.  Let's not get "dead air group" about this issue.  I don't want to fight over this.  Some people really do enjoy conflict.  I don't.
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« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2008, 10:14:25 AM »

Jack, I have to agree with you. We(all the AM'ers) should arrage an all band, AM contest, and it shouldn't just be a "You're 5-9" and you're gone kind of contest. If we have an AM contest, it's going to be more of an exchange, like signal report, what your rig is, how old it is, where you're located, you could even say what color your cat is for all I care. But it would be that you go on for 5 minutes or so of your rambling and then you move on to work another station.Then see how many slopbucket QRMtesters you drive nuts.
Shelby KB3OUK
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« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2008, 10:57:57 AM »

 I thank the Good Lord for this Forum and the Builders that Take part here, that's where My loyalties Lie.

 I don't have issues with things that i don't take part in , and my temper flared when I seen my friends fall into a situation that comes from others misgivings...No disrespect from ZedLR...

 In time my signal will be alive again on the air and I would enjoy dearly filling up all the call freq's and Getting Bill W8VYZed on the Air on 290 and just putting a smile on his face with a good round table with carrier wave...that's where We here connect the Best man...An all AM Contest...FB Set a Date and publish it...FB it would show US at Our Best...


 This Debate is out of my abilities and I'm Not going to let things operators appliances weigh in on my Friends an lose my temper again...it's outsider stuff, it's their Problem..We Have better things to do and have a better time doing it when We Light the Filaments.... I dunno..

Forgot One Thing...I apologize...The Class E Guys Srry Almost forgot...when they throw the switch...Too...

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« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2008, 11:50:54 AM »

Jack, I have to agree with you. We(all the AM'ers) should arrage an all band, AM contest, and it shouldn't just be a "You're 5-9" and you're gone kind of contest. If we have an AM contest, it's going to be more of an exchange, like signal report, what your rig is, how old it is, where you're located, you could even say what color your cat is for all I care. But it would be that you go on for 5 minutes or so of your rambling and then you move on to work another station.Then see how many slopbucket QRMtesters you drive nuts.
Shelby KB3OUK

We already have this stuff. There is the vintage Field Day, Classic Exchange, AWA contest, Heavy Metal, and maybe even others. However, as it has been pointed out numerous times over the years here and there, many AM'ers don't care to participant in contest-type activities. It's hard to to annoy the masses when you generally are in the minority. and even more important, trying to be an annoyance isn't a plus factor for the mode. Most contesters, with any skill, can walk around any on going QRM. Contesters generally have one of the best skill sets for operating under adverse conditions. And, as one AM'er mentioned in a QSO several years ago, "they're very good and we're not".
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« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2008, 12:18:31 PM »

"Skill"....OK....UM, as In Like The "OO" Thing..LOL...

I'm Outta here..LOL...

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« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2008, 12:43:25 PM »

Jack, I have to agree with you. We(all the AM'ers) should arrage an all band, AM contest, and it shouldn't just be a "You're 5-9" and you're gone kind of contest. If we have an AM contest, it's going to be more of an exchange, like signal report, what your rig is, how old it is, where you're located, you could even say what color your cat is for all I care. But it would be that you go on for 5 minutes or so of your rambling and then you move on to work another station.Then see how many slopbucket QRMtesters you drive nuts.
Shelby KB3OUK

We already have this stuff. There is the vintage Field Day, Classic Exchange, AWA contest, Heavy Metal, and maybe even others. However, as it has been pointed out numerous times over the years here and there, many AM'ers don't care to participant in contest-type activities. It's hard to to annoy the masses when you generally are in the minority. and even more important, trying to be an annoyance isn't a plus factor for the mode. Most contesters, with any skill, can walk around any on going QRM...

Jack, I have to agree with you. We(all the AM'ers) should arrage an all band, AM contest, and it shouldn't just be a "You're 5-9" and you're gone kind of contest. If we have an AM contest, it's going to be more of an exchange, like signal report, what your rig is, how old it is, where you're located, you could even say what color your cat is for all I care. But it would be that you go on for 5 minutes or so of your rambling and then you move on to work another station.Then see how many slopbucket QRMtesters you drive nuts.

I doubt if many SSB QRMtesters would pay any attention, let alone become annoyed.  To most of them, it would be just be more AM activity, which some find annoying regardless of whether it might be ragchewing, net operation, contesting, etc.

One thing missing these days, which used to bring a lot of AM activity out of the woodwork back in the 80's and early 90's, is the "AM jAMboree".  Howie, W2NRM (SK), when he published the old Press Exchange, and later S.P.A.M., when they ran a monthly column in The AM Press/Exchange, promoted these events periodically throughout the year, mostly  during autumn and winter months when condx were good.

These were NOT typical hello-g'bye QRMtest type QSO's, but normal AM conversations, with the jAMboree exchange information added.  I recall a time or two when 75m sounded like the early 60's, with AM carriers audible throughout the band from 3800 to 3900, and all across the 160m band, and I remember hearing some slopbuckets boasting of their plans to "jam the jAMboree".


Quote
From Issue No. 71, May 1989:

SPAM AM JAMBOREE CALENDAR

January 75 Meter AM Jamboree
On the second weekend in January is the 75 meter AM Jamboree. During this time the noise level drops off and signals pick up. A lot of AMers operate during this Jamboree, so make plans early and don't miss out on all of the fun.

March 40 Meter AM Jamboree
On the second weekend in March is the 40 meter AM Jamboree. This is a real test of your operating skill. AM is no stranger to this band, you have a chance to operate with the big boys. The trick here is to find a hole and rack up the points.

May 10 Meter AM Jamboree
On the first weekend in May is the 10 meter AM Jamboree. As the days get longer and things heat up, so does 10 meters. Lots of new AMers operating and it's a great chance to meet folks and still be able to get some sleep at night.

July 20 Meter AM Jamboree
On the first weekend in July is the 20 meter AM Jamboree. Summertime on 20 meters means it's time to break out the HEAVY METAL and join in on the fun.

September 15 meter AM Jamboree
On the third weekend in September is the 15 meter AM Jamboree. This band is new to AM Jamborees, but it should be fun to see what happens. We will have a good chance to start up some AM activity.

November 160/10 Meter AM Jamboree
On Thanksgiving weekend is the 160 and 10 meter AM Jamboree. This is a 4-day marathon, which provides 24 hours of operation. Grab your drum stick and pie, and get set for some great operating in the TOP and BOTTOM Jamboree.

Audio Recording - Including W2NRM, W2WAS, W3DUQ, W2VJZ and WA3UAN
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Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2008, 04:08:50 PM »

that's more of what i was thinking of. i think we've already played around with this topic long enough.
shelby kb3ouk
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« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2008, 04:30:16 PM »

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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2008, 11:57:35 AM »

Wow! I really enjoy hollering down a well.  Just love hearing no response except my own echo.  Roll Eyes

I do that alot with my small antenna. It does not cancel out the pleasure of operating (fiddling the speech amp, setting the bias and drive, tuning the radio, tuner, and (when used) amplifier.) When I do get a QSO, it is icing on the cake.

I'm as happy with my two QSL cards as a contester is with his wall full. Whenever I do field day with the local ham club, the contacts are mostly easy to make because they put up humongous antennas. I enjoy the challenge of trying to contact others in the face of a difficulty. A recent non-contest QSO between my radio truck in Texas with 15FT whip antenna + 100W slop-rig and a guy on a boat off the coast of Maine, while pure luck, was very satisfying and I considered it fantastic. How big an AM TX would both of us have needed for that? haha 500W PEP on each end maybe. There's two kinds of contests. One is the organized type that is being discussed so passionately, and one is the personal type, where operators are pitted against  less convenient situations.

and on K1OK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVlvciPZx4&NR=1
that is hilarious!

Back to the state of the thread, I've never participated in a jAMboree but it sounds like fun. I suppose I'm one of those awful old tubes and audio people who didn't want to mess with CW and never upgraded to HF privleges till it was convenient. This fall should see a 100FT dipole and a hefty tuna. in place of the miserable 40FT wire. Let's hope for the best in the AM hobby and not worry too much about contests occasionally taking up alot of the bands. If they were AM mode, would there be as much trouble? Couldn't blame the slopbuckets then. The complaints would be the tones from other carriers, etc.
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