official observer card sent after ssb station trys to push us off the freq.

[k4kyv]

In at least one case I received an OO report accusing me of "malicious interference" and "operating like a CB'er" because I simply turned up the wick and ignored that particular OO's buddies, when they had tried to start up on a frequency where I already had a long-established QSO in progress.

[wd8das]

Don wrote:

>I simply turned up the wick and ignored that particular OO's buddies,
>when they had tried to start up on a frequency where I already had
>a long-established QSO in progress.

That happens to AM groups on 160m all the time.  Some SSB stations, or sometimes even another AM group, will decide it is time for *their* group (or net) to get started, and will just fire up on top or near the first group.  In my opinion it is then appropriate for the first group to increase power, if they can, since their previous power level is no longer enough to maintain communications.

This of course is not the same thing as changing propagation bringing interference from QSOs previously out of range to each other - that is a natural phenomenon and is no one's "fault".  In such cases I usually reduce power and/or shift frequency a bit to allow both groups to continue.

Steve WD8DAS

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I meant that it seems like a lot of these people don't seem to have any brains. but there's also some things on the bands that probably get overlooked, too.
Shelby KB3OUK

A lot of people who operate on the air today, in any mode, give the perception of not having any brains. But, "back in the gold old days", the wacko's generally only came out on weekends and long holidays and back then, the only HF phone mode was AM.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I do think at one time the program served a purpose back in the 'real' novice days when all you had was cw and 50 kc wide bands and a good percentage of novices  were...well...novices! They tuned their final on their DX-20 or one tuber as a doubler, had some chirp, drift, etc. O.O.'s provided a useful service in the 50's and early 60's. they ould base their observations on objective criteria such as drift, chirp, hum....

Those days are long gone. The program is obsolete in these days of plastic radios. The League should shut it down.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I do think at one time the program served a purpose back in the 'real' novice days when all you had was cw and 50 kc wide bands and a good percentage of novices  were...well...novices! They tuned their final on their DX-20 or one tuber as a doubler, had some chirp, drift, etc. O.O.'s provided a useful service in the 50's and early 60's. they ould base their observations on objective criteria such as drift, chirp, hum....

Those days are long gone. The program is obsolete in these days of plastic radios. The League should shut it down.

So, you would rather wait till your name was added to this list:
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/AmateurActions/Welcome.html
Now you have to go through a formal process. The Amateur Auxiliary serves a very useful purpose in keeping lots of names off this list.

[KA1ZGC]

Now you have to go through a formal process. The Amateur Auxiliary serves a very useful purpose in keeping lots of names off this list.

Horse cookies! I can promise you that never once has the FCC decided not to persue enforcement action against a licensed amateur because the OOs had already acted.

The Amateur Auxiliary is a flawed concept on many levels: only ARRL members are allowed in, and the very name "Amateur Auxiliary" gives its members a false impression that they are somehow "above" the rest of the amateur community when they are, in fact, ordinary hams just like everyone else.

There isn't a monopoly on VECs, why is there a monopoly on OOs? Furthermore, why would anyone believe that such a monopoly is a good thing?

I think its time to forcefully wrest the sole custody of the Amateur Auxiliary from the ARRL once and for all. They've proven to most of us that they just can't handle it right, and competition is good for you (it gives you a reason to improve, unlike the current scenario).

[ka3zlr]

Gentlemen,

 This needs to Stop. Please....

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Horse cookies! I can promise you that never once has the FCC decided not to persue enforcement action against a licensed amateur because the OOs had already acted.

Given that the OO does a creditable job of informing the amateur of a possible malfunction of his rig, interference, an out of band operation, etc., the amateur can then take action to correct the problem. If the amateur was never informed by the OO, the amateur could be left to repeating the same problem over and over, until possibly, the FCC stumbled upon the amateur and his/her issue. Once the FCC serves you notice, it becomes a formal process (letter to amateur, amateur has 30 days to respond, formal acceptance of response, matter closed or further action).

The Amateur Auxiliary is a flawed concept on many levels: only ARRL members are allowed in, and the very name "Amateur Auxiliary" gives its members a false impression that they are somehow "above" the rest of the amateur community when they are, in fact, ordinary hams just like everyone else.

There isn't a monopoly on VECs, why is there a monopoly on OOs? Furthermore, why would anyone believe that such a monopoly is a good thing?

I think its time to forcefully wrest the sole custody of the Amateur Auxiliary from the ARRL once and for all. They've proven to most of us that they just can't handle it right, and competition is good for you (it gives you a reason to improve, unlike the current scenario).

As I quoted earlier:
"Amateur Radio monitoring and enforcement are low priorities at the FCC. Time and time again, the FCC has indicated that we're largely on our own in keeping our operating standards and spectrum in shape."

If you feel the urge to start your own "band cop" process, their nothing that I know of that should stand in your way other then some upfront initial creditability issues.

[KF1Z]

Now you have to go through a formal process. The Amateur Auxiliary serves a very useful purpose in keeping lots of names off this list.

Horse cookies! I can promise you that never once has the FCC decided not to persue enforcement action against a licensed amateur because the OOs had already acted.

True enough....

Although there are times the FCC uses OO input to decide whether or not TO act.

The FCC routinely asks OOs to monitor area of band, or certain individuals that they have recieved complaints about.

[WA1HZK]

"Can I Get Me an OO Licence Here?
Is there a contest for "Worked All OO's"
Hey Grant. Let me know if you need any more strapping parts!
Keith

[W1IA]

"Can I Get Me an OO Licence Here?
Is there a contest for "Worked All OO's"
Hey Grant. Let me know if you need any more strapping parts!
Keith

Gee and I missed all the fun!! I line the bird cage with such paperwork  Looks like I will have to dust-off the mosfets and put some fire to the wire.

Like having a battle of wits with an unarmed man. Ignore and strap!!

Brent W1IA

[KA1ZGC]

As I quoted earlier:
"Amateur Radio monitoring and enforcement are low priorities at the FCC. Time and time again, the FCC has indicated that we're largely on our own in keeping our operating standards and spectrum in shape."

I heard you the first time, Pete.

You clearly didn't read what I wrote if you think that is even remotely relevant to my point. I know the FCC has better things to do with its time (and my money) than to chase us down, but that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my point about the OO program being opened up beyond the ARRL's sole custody.

We have multiple VECs, we should have multiple OOCs. The best way to ensure someone's product quality is at its best is to have someone else also producing the same product.

If you feel the urge to start your own "band cop" process, their nothing that I know of that should stand in your way other then some upfront initial creditability issues.

I don't, but I find it amusing (yet not suprising) that you speak of the ARRL's OO program like it's a blessing upon all amateurs whose aura Shall Eternally Glow, yet even hypothetical talk of anyone besides the ARRL doing exactly the same thing gets the derogatory "band cop" label.

That Newington-esque patronizing and dismissive demeanor makes my point for me.

This needs to Stop. Please....

You have got to be kidding me!

Not every disagreement is an uncivil one. A discussion of the OO program is a very healthy thing and good for the hobby, as long as it doesn't degrade into personal attacks and name-calling. Pete and I have disagreed numerous times over the years, but niether of us are stupid enough to go down that rat-hole.

If an honest and civil disagreement offends you, you are welcome to not read it. It's a free country.

--Thom
Killer Aircraft One Zeppelin Goes Crash

[k4kyv]

I have never had any problem with the OO reports that I have received.  Either they were legitimate (harmonics, and one time a spurious signal about 30 kHz away that I wasn't aware of when I was using a "heterodyne" VFO), or else they were bogus, like the ones for "excessive carrier", alleged malicious interference, and "excessive bandwidth".  It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to filter out the bogus reports and to simply ignore them if one doesn't wish to continue the correspondence.

OO's can be like the hams who offer useful communications services during emergencies, versus others who show up wearing their orange vests, 6 HT's on a belt, in a vehicle that  looks like a porcupine with all the antennas attached and flashing amber lights, who get in the way attempting to show their importance and shoot the bull with the real emergency providers while they try to work, and who think they deserve a share of the free food provided by community volunteers.

[ka3zlr]

..I'm Not offended...I'm not a member...LOL....

I just think it's defeative, because all i see is good productive Criticisms and then Parroting of the league...Nothings gona change ...HQ is Middle managed to death an there is going to be No relinquishing of anything...

Somebody comes up with a good point, and all ya get handed is League standards...it's like talking to a post...lol...................


  and that's My opinion...on this..

[KA1ZGC]

..I'm Not offended...I'm not a member...LOL....

I just think it's defeative, because all i see is good productive Criticisms and then Parroting of the league...Nothings gona change ...HQ is Middle managed to death an there is going to be No relinquishing of anything...

You're right, trying to change Pete's mind would be pointless. Fortunately, changing people's minds is not what I'm about. If two people (other than Pete) read what I wrote and at least thought about it (for or against, doesn't matter) then I've accomplished four times more than I would by simply changing one man's mind.

Your second paragraph sums up the way most people feel about the situation: nothing's going to change, there will be no relinquishing of anything, etc. In other words, we've collectively given up.

If there were a more sensible system by which several seperate organizations each had a hand in guiding the overall on-air experience, it would have exponentially better results than the current ARRL-members-only gang of kilocycle cops with no oversight. The current system has lost all respect in the amateur community, because 90% (I would guess) of what it generates is garbage.

If there were more than one body doing it, the garbage reports would go down quickly, because none of those bodies would want the reputation of running the dumbest bunch of OOs known to the hobby.

Beleive me, if the ARRL were the only VEC, the current influx of hams would be even less prepared to operate a transmitter than what we're getting now.

The OO program was supposed to be a means for us to keep each other honest. If nobody can keep the OO program honest (and let's face it: the ARRL will never admit to any malfeasance within its own ranks), then the program is doomed to fail.

The current program has already failed us. Time for a new program. No pink slips, no casting judgements, no reports generated based on hearsay, no highlighting of "no reply necessary", no kilocycle cops, no sense of entitlement.

Oh, by the way: the ARRL doesn't have a choice in the matter. It's not theirs to relinquish. They don't run this hobby the way they'd have us believe.

As long as we tell ourselves it's not worth it, or that it can't be done, we'll be right.

For my money, always being right is horribly overrated.

Just something to think about.

[ka3zlr]

100%....FB..

 That's the thing like when i made that posting in the league section and said the Exact same thing...about always being Right...

 Your thoughts here to me are a gold mine, but I stepped in because I hate to see some of our finest beat their heads against his Door...I've been though that and It's wrong...It's one thing if it's needed and someone has a question hey By all means bring in the Rules this is this an so forth yes...get it done...but I'm watching league dogma that produces nothing....

Your Opinions are a Great Value to myself and others....all the parroting does is Create more riffs...it's pointless...

best 73 OM..