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Author Topic: Gasoline Madness;When to Stop  (Read 351238 times)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #550 on: August 11, 2008, 11:49:02 PM »

please spalin this to a dumb guy. Exon Mobile drills a well and hits oil. This oil is pumped to be refined in their cracking plant. How is that price fixed to the opig price? Does the opig price just get passed on as an excuse? I'm trying to understand how 20% of our inported oil drives the profit margin to big oil.

The way I understand it, is that Exon Mobile drills a well and hits oil.  The oil is put on the world market and sold at market price.  In a separate transaction altogether, other company operatives buy crude oil off the world market at market price and have it delivered to their cracking plant to be refined.

The oil is not physically transported away from Exxon Mobile's oil fields, while oil from the Mid East is delivered to the refinery.  The oil is simply shuffled about the world in paper transactions, and then transported as needed, as economically as possible, to fill the paper orders.  Some of the oil from the well may go directly to the cracking plant, while other might be shipped to Japan, China or Europe. 

Exxon Mobile gets full market value when they sell the crude from their well, but pays full market value for the crude that goes to their refinery.  The net transfer at that point is zero, and they still have the crude on hand, but it has been locked into full world-market value before it is transferred to the refinery. Then the finished product is sold to their domestic customers at full world-market prices.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #551 on: August 12, 2008, 08:43:33 AM »

good thing my pay check isn't delivered that way. What a scam
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W8EJO
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« Reply #552 on: August 12, 2008, 08:53:47 AM »

good thing my pay check isn't delivered that way. What a scam

Hardly a "scam".

You would do the same thing if you discovered oil on your south 40, in fact if you are a working man you are doing it right now by selling your labor at the market price. You don't go to your employer and offer to sell your labor to him at 1/2, 1/3 (or less) of the market price. It wouldn't be wise nor would it be in your economic self interest.



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Terry, W8EJO

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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #553 on: August 12, 2008, 09:42:51 AM »

you drill for oil on public land then give everybody you know a shot at being a middle man. Sounds like amway
Then you skim a profit margin off the fianl price and cry it is only 10%
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #554 on: August 12, 2008, 10:58:29 AM »

Your paycheck is delivered that way. Your employer doesn't physically carry cash to your bank and deposit it into your account. It's all done electronically, same as with the oil.


good thing my pay check isn't delivered that way. What a scam
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #555 on: August 12, 2008, 10:59:52 AM »

Nice strawman. Except it's totally false. So what's your point? Who can make up the craziest conspiracy theory?


you drill for oil on public land then give everybody you know a shot at being a middle man. Sounds like amway
Then you skim a profit margin off the fianl price and cry it is only 10%
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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #556 on: August 12, 2008, 11:12:16 AM »

So why is it so evil to make a profit?  That's what people in business do, work hard to earn profits.  Instead of complaining, buy stock in OIL Co's - I wish I had done that long ago...  

You may just as well blame the automotive industry for selling us cars.  If it wasn't for the American Love affair with the automobile, we'd be a lot better off energy wise.  Unfortunately the Automobile and the image it provides has become so engrained in our culture that we won't easily give it up.  We are a society of commuters/suburbia dwellers.  In order to make mass transit effective we would have to make some indepth changes to our way of THINKING, and how we live/work.

As far as oil as a fuel, well, we bought into a bad bill of goods way back when.  Oil (and it's products) are easy to transport, convienient to store, and simple to use.  You can run a car on other fuels, Coal, wood, biomass, etc. It's just that they are less convienient to use.  We bought into the Oil/Automotvie Marketing Plan up to the hilt. Now we reap what we have sown.

I worry more about the precident set by the Gubment deciding that an industry has "earned too much" (so called windfall profits) and taxing them at higher rates.  

That is a classic socialist redistrubution of wealth.  Everyone likes that idea, until its time to redistribute YOUR wealth.  

It's always different when its someone elses money.
 
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
WA1GFZ
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« Reply #557 on: August 12, 2008, 11:38:02 AM »

redistribution of wealth, sure is
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #558 on: August 12, 2008, 12:25:36 PM »

Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that man behind the tree (or oil well). It's amazing how some people continue to fall for the news media's villification of the oil industry. It's hypocrisy at its height.
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #559 on: August 12, 2008, 12:42:23 PM »

Might be good to be reminded why oil, gasoline, other very high BTU fuels coupled with the comparitively light weight internal combustion engine swept the world in the first place.

Everyone jumped on a very portable fuel/engine combo.  No more hitichin' up the team... women could drive very easily (yeah, cliche no. 9, "once the electric starter became universal.)

Coal (an even more 'compact' higher BTU fuel) had ursurped buggies and decrepit roads (modified trails.) via steam engines and the railroads.  But steam required tons of water to be hauled along, ran out faster than coal in the tenders of the era. Closed cycle steam requires huge air exchangers/ coolers/ condensers; fine in a fixed plant for power generation but really horrible in a transport vehicle. So a compromise was electric trains, Penna. GG-1's, et. al. - Power centrally generated and distributed by catenaries.. . you guys know the drill.  Who wants overhead wires with all the complicated distribution systems when you can have,... Voila!, diesel-electric. Best of all worlds, on board generation with a portable, high BTU fuel coupled with high starting tourque, individual wheel electric motor traction.

So why are we in cars and trucks?  Easy. The stuff just poured out of the ground, was easily obtainable, initially easily refineable and way easier to 'round-up' and transport (pipelines/compression) than tons of hay, coal, you name it.  The IC engine made for super horsepowers compared to a man or a horse in an amazingly compact package.  It was the engine that allowed the Wright bros. to finally have reliable powered flight.  

So the whole energy infrastructure lead to filling stations on every cornor, paved roads, commuting at distances once only imagined or available along a 'main line' of a RR., e.g. Philadelphia's Main Line.

I won't even go into airlines....   Simply amazing compared to the centuries-long stagnation of energy development, the most modern of which touted a harness that allowed a horse to pull from the chest instead of from a slippery body or choking neck.

So come on guys, get real.  
There's trillions of tons of this oil/ natural gas stuff.  Theory, even years ago positied that methane came from the bowls of the earth, outgassing from Jupiter like residue from Earth's initial aglomeration. Right now oil is politically priced, for many reasons, not the least of which may be our chicken shit politicians issuing 'green' agendae for greed and gain.  Greed of oil companies, .... sure, granted in say, CEO pay, but then what private enterprise doesn't have this problem?  Russian cartels anyone?  

So, thinking people in the energy industry, after the pap of a 'green' ad or two, probably say our best solution right now would be nuclear energy for fixed plants - emongus power generation to do everything include recharge electric automobiles (after a really good battery is developed) and use hydrocarbons for products, and specialized transport in craft that can't lift heavy shielding or pose a security risk, .. e.g. airplanes.   Wind power?   We ought to be riding on the wind, not covering the earth with seas of propellers.  Fun and useful but not a real energy solution when terrawatts, not megawatts are required.

Or do you really want to keep ol' Dobbin out back, harness him up for the weekly (at best) trip to the hardware store, the grocery and the courthouse?  Oh, don't forget mowing your yard twice a year whether it needs it or not... gotta keep down those greenbriars. Yeah, Big horse drawn five foot cutter bar for pastures, little you-push-it reel mower for your yard or, say 20 ft. around the house.

Did I mention blacktopping the road out front?  Forget it turkeys, you'll go a' courtin' on your own two feet, shod with leather, of course, if your lucky.

I and many on this board have said it and will say it again.  Why penalize the world's premier production, treating, transportating and distribution system, far more efficient than most businesses let alone any government (by definition takers rather than generators) ?  
Simple,
Jealousy, Egalitarianism, class warefare, self-loathing for real and perceived self shortcomings, transfer of aggression to a popular target... you name it.   Hey, go out an kick the dog.  Don't you dare hop in your car and drive out to the doghouse though Grin
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RICK  *W3RSW*
Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #560 on: August 12, 2008, 01:11:44 PM »


Or do you really want to keep ol' Dobbin out back, harness him up for the weekly (at best) trip to the hardware store, the grocery and the courthouse?


My wife would. A ten mile trip on horseback is a piece of cake.
Seems to suit the Amish, too.
It's good exercise, to boot. Now people gotta pay to exercise.

And every small town had a drug store, grocery, bank, theater, lumber yard, jobs and places to socialize with real people- in person.

Problem is the pollution critters leave behind in urban areas.

One could argue that America was better off in many respects during the steam train, telegraph and horse and buggy era.
 Wink
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #561 on: August 12, 2008, 03:02:55 PM »

There is a town here in Ct. that just passed a law. You don't like the smell of cows next door....Tuff. Suck it up yuppie and move back to the city.
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Ed/KB1HYS
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« Reply #562 on: August 12, 2008, 03:13:48 PM »

Actually the "Horse Residue" (to distinguish it from the stuff in washinton) was handled by a fellow with a bucket and a shovel in cities etc.  Street sweepers used to be a man with a bucket on wheels with broom and shovel.

Anyway the horse out back would help with the lawn mowing out front right?


A few states have "Right to Farm" laws that are designed to protect a working farmer (as opposed to someone who owns pets?) from law suits based on the results of legitimate farming such as aromas and noise. (Harvesting into the night is common using big combines/harvesters and lights) and the occasional farm impliment that is needed to run over the road to get to the other fields. 

It would seem like common sense that you would want to keep the farmers in business...  at least if you like to eat that is.
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73 de Ed/KB1HYS
Happiness is Hot Tubes, Cold 807's, and warm room filling AM Sound.
 "I've spent three quarters of my life trying to figure out how to do a $50 job for $.50, the rest I spent trying to come up with the $0.50" - D. Gingery
WA1GFZ
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« Reply #563 on: August 12, 2008, 03:27:32 PM »

There was a time when people ran after horse droppings. It is great for the garden. Yea, I still have a garden and it has had about 8 truck loads of horse droppings and some cow piled on it over the years.
I'm amazed most people can't tell the difference between horse droppings and stuff coming out of the beltway. Then vote them right back in and feel good about it. 
 
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #564 on: August 12, 2008, 03:46:27 PM »

Chicken shyte is good for tomatoes...........

klc
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #565 on: August 12, 2008, 03:47:44 PM »

There was a time when people ran after horse droppings. It is great for the garden. Yea, I still have a garden and it has had about 8 truck loads of horse droppings and some cow piled on it over the years.
I'm amazed most people can't tell the difference between horse droppings and stuff coming out of the beltway. Then vote them right back in and feel good about it. 
 

See? Even the exhaust from horses is far more useful than the exhaust from internal combustion engines. LOL
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #566 on: August 12, 2008, 04:14:17 PM »

you have to be careful with chicken. Like running your buggy on nitro.
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K3ZS
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« Reply #567 on: August 12, 2008, 04:45:27 PM »

At Niagara-on-the-Lake, a town in Ontario, the horses on the horse drawn carriages have bags attached to their rear ends to capture the droppings.    No need to have someone running around cleaning it up.
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W1EUJ
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« Reply #568 on: August 12, 2008, 05:00:48 PM »

Doesn't the smell waft up to the riders in the carriage?
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #569 on: August 12, 2008, 05:16:59 PM »

Doesn't the smell waft up to the riders in the carriage?

It don't smell bad, dude!
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #570 on: August 12, 2008, 05:20:37 PM »

who empty the bag?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65u8yWr7K90


klc
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #571 on: August 12, 2008, 06:18:07 PM »

Pretty funny.

- all the h.s. notwithstanding. 

I wonder if he heard an echo in there?

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RICK  *W3RSW*
WA1GFZ
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« Reply #572 on: August 12, 2008, 07:16:04 PM »

Hey that is a novel  idea...we should attach bags to our senators from Ct.
But we would need GPS tracking to find them. Then there is the guy who have two, one at each end.
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #573 on: August 12, 2008, 08:46:32 PM »

Prior to 1900, infant mortality rates of two and three hundred obtained throughout the world. The infant mortality rate would fluctute sharply according to the weather, the harvest, war, and epidemic disease. In severe times, a majority of infants would die within one year. In good times, perhaps two hundred per thousand would die. So great was the pre-modern loss of children's lives that anthropologists claim to have found groups that do not name children until they have survived a year.

the good old days are each day that you are alive, here and now. By living the best you can NOW, you turn today's days into "good old days" in the future. In the wider overall scheme of life, things just keep getting better.
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W1ATR
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« Reply #574 on: August 13, 2008, 12:24:01 AM »

You better watch it there Frank. You been poppin off quite a bit lately about the hacks that run our state. Jody was on the news tonight talking about how she's coming to Enfld to do two things, chew bubble gum, and kick ass, and she's fresh outta bubble gum. Tongue
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