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Author Topic: Wrinkle Paint  (Read 14220 times)
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W1RKW
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« on: December 23, 2007, 01:36:34 PM »

Anyone ever work with wrinkle paint?  I never have and have been curious as how to apply it because at some point I would like to paint the 813 rig once it's finished.  I came across this nice little article from a Google search.  Just an FYI.

http://www.mgexperience.net/article/wrinkle-paint.html
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Bob
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 03:24:00 PM »

I used harley davidson spray on wrinkle on my HB rig when I made it. You need good ventilation, and the thing to be sprayed needs to be brought up to about 100 degrees temp. it needs that temp to wrinkle evenly and consistently over the entire article. Too hot, the wrinkle will be too fine. Too cold, it wont wrinkle the same over the whole piece. About 100 to 105 F is right. Good heavy application.
None of this '2 light coats' bs - you want 1 heavy coat.


If you can still smell the paint , ITS NOT DRY YET. bake it at about 90 degrees until you cant smell any solvents when you stick yer nose about 8" away. When you have your dryness and yer desired level of wrinkle, go over it again with some deft semi gloss lacquer. That will give it the shiny new black finish. Think of it as a protective clear coat. Let that dry 2 days at room temp.

if the item is scratched heavy, the paint will wrinkle around the existing scratches. Some folks like this, others dont. Steel takes better to this than alum, unless you can make the alum keep in the heat.

That should get you started.
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w3jn
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 07:02:18 PM »

^^ 110% on what da DRB sez.  I've tried every kind of wrinkle paint out there - whatever that crap AES sold, Krylon, some private Ace Hardware brand, and Harley Davidson was the only schtuff that worked right.

One challenge with doing a cabinet or something with perpendicular edges is runs.  I bought an old rotisserie motor, was gonna rig something up for cabinets, but never did anything with it.  A front panel should be no problemo though.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 07:07:39 PM »

Here's more:

Quote
There is a black wrinkle paint available at auto parts
stores (I get mine at Pep Boys) manufactured by
Plasti-Kote called "Wrinkle Finish" #217 black.  You
apply it in three coats, each supposedly ten minutes
apart.  However, depending on the exact temperature, I
have found that it works better about 5 or 6 minutes
apart.

The instructions say to use it between 60 and 80
degrees F.  However, I have found the hotter the
weather, the better!  When the temperature is below
about 85 degrees, and especially when the humidity is
high, I have found that a "bake" in the oven at about
150 degrees helps greatly.

Then, after the wrinkle paint is dry, use the Heath
gray #110 from Total Electronics (Mike Shelton - he
reads the Heath reflector).  That paint is $9.95 plus
shipping per spray can.  The black wrinkle paint is
$4.95 a can (plus tax) in the Dallas, Texas, area.

The black wrinkle plus the Heath gray #110 is what I
use on the reproduction crystal doors for the DX-35 /
DX-40.  By the way, does your DX-40 have the crystal
door?  If so, you are very lucky.

The chassis itself is unpainted.  However, from the
text of your message I "assume" that you mean the
cabinet.

Glen, K9STH

http://listserv.tempe.gov/admin/WA.EXE?A2=ind0108&L=heath&D=0&P=19228

The problem I have had with the Harley Davidson stuff is that the wrinkle is too fine, and it is flat, not glossy.  The end result looks much like the "St James Grey" used on Collins gear. (I never did see the "grey" in that stuff; it always looked like black wrinkle to me).  Perhaps Derb's suggestion not to let it get too hot is a solution to the problem of the wrinkles turning out too fine.

Wasn't there a thread on this board some time ago about restoring the shine on black wrinkle by diluting regular black gloss paint with mineral spirits, dipping it with a cloth and "washing" the dulled finish, to achieve a glossy wrinkle finish?

I would like to duplicate the coarse, grainy texture often seen on black wrinkle equipment from the 1930's.  A good example can be seen on mid 30's National products such as the SW-3 and early HRO.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2007, 02:42:49 AM »

make it too hot and your wrinkles will be too fine. much depends on variables - the thickness of the metal, the temp of the work, and it's an art to get it to look like HRO stuff. easy way to get gloss is to shoot it with semi or full gloss lacquer as a clear coat. Getting want you want in the way of how wrinkly it is is a black art. More important to me to get each panel or part UNIFORM.

The gloss of the finish and the level of winkles are not the same. mo winkles does not result in mo gloss, just less flat surface for light to reflect off of. It's an illusion of process=result. 




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WB3LEQ
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2007, 12:18:45 PM »

Earlier this year I did some research on "crackle finish" as described in the 1944 ARRL handbook.  I figured I might be able to duplicate the original process described using Dupont Duco and the Sherwin-Williams Kem-Art metal finish modern day equivalents.  Duco came up as a lacquer based fast dry paint available in multiple colors including clear.

Sherwin-Williams ended up a complete disappointment.  The representative I corresponded with could not provide a modern equivalent or the history of what Kem-Art of the 1940's was composed of; ie oil based enamel, drying time, etc.  He said this was due to patent rights that even he as an employee had zero access. An interesting side note is that Kem-Art is still sold in other countries.

I want to duplicate the original heavy wrinkle style not the semi splatter light wrinkle that the aerosol cans provide. I have some ideas to test to see if they work.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 01:03:39 PM »

Earlier this year I did some research on "crackle finish" as described in the 1944 ARRL handbook... The representative I corresponded with could not provide a modern equivalent or the history of what Kem-Art of the 1940's was composed of; ie oil based enamel, drying time, etc.  He said this was due to patent rights that even he as an employee had zero access.

I want to duplicate the original heavy wrinkle style not the semi splatter light wrinkle that the aerosol cans provide...

That has been my goal, too.  The best approximation I have seen is powder coat wrinkle, but even that is too uniform, the texture of the wrinkles (although coarse and heavy) is noticeably different, and the reflective characteristic of the old wrinkle paint is totally absent. 

You will notice that the wrinkle finish on many pieces of mid 30's equipment reflects light in a peculiar texture (independently from the wrinkles themselves), that I can best describe as a grainy-like reflective surface that resembles that of galvanised sheet metal.

Wrinkle paint dates back to at least the 20's.  I have seen metal-housed Atwater-Kent broadcast receivers and speakers from that era whose original finish was brown wrinkle.  Certainly, if it was possible to achieve that texture almost 90 years ago it would still be possible to-day.

Quote
An interesting side note is that Kem-Art is still sold in other countries.

It may be that Kem-art does not conform to some recently-enacted US environmental standard.  I wonder if it might be available in Canada; if so perhaps it could be mail ordered, or for those living with a day's drive of the border, purchased retail in Canada and brought back here.  It a way, this is surprising, since many other countries, particularly the EU bloc, have environmental restrictions that are much more strict than ours, often bordering on the downright absurd, e.g. their recent ban on lead solder in electronics. If Kem-art really works for recreating the classic wrinkle finish, this would be a good product for some outfit like Antique Electronic Supply to make available in their product line.

BTW, here is a link to the other black wrinkle thread, regarding cleaning and restoration.

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=4843.0

John, why do you suggest using semi-gloss instead of gloss paint?  Did you try both and got better result with semi, or was semi just what you happened to have on hand at the time?

What did you use for thinner?  I normally use mineral spirits because it is more widely available than natural turpentine, and doesn't have as strong a smell.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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WB3LEQ
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 01:54:56 PM »

Attached is the photo I sent to Sherwin-Williams.  It really shows the pattern when it is in a lighter gray color. 

Don - The modern day Kem-Art paint is available in Mexico but keep in mind the formula may have changed over the last sixty years.  I found the MSDS (Material Data Safety Sheet) online for it but I don't think I saved it or bookmarked it as it was in Spanish.


* Wrinkle gray.jpg (210.2 KB, 800x600 - viewed 682 times.)
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Bob  WB3LEQ
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w3jn
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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2007, 02:40:49 PM »

Gloss was just TOO shiny.  I've tried it both ways.  Use whatever is best for your taste.
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ve6pg
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 12:21:48 PM »

...i restored a number of bugs, and used the plastic kote stuff...werked great...i put the base of the bug in the oven, at abt 150*f...when i removed the base, i sprayed right away, with a primer with east-west motion, then north-south...then lightly scuff the the base. put the base back in the oven, let it sit fer a while. removed it, and sprayed the wrinkle paint right away. dont let the item cool off..it wrinkled up, right away....i sprayed it the same way i paint an aircraft, a steady horizontal motion, no "swinging" of my hand when i apply it...as well, you shud have a gud overspray, beyond the item u r spraying....tim..sk..
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...Yes, my name is Tim Smith...sk..
W1RKW
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 04:13:11 PM »

Found a new technique for making non-wrinkle paint wrinkle.  Apply Rust Oleum primer, ignore the instructions for drying time and apply the RustOleum top coat. The wrinkle comes out quickly and you end up with a nice wrinkle finish. Looks hideous actually. 

Note: if you don't like the look of it, once cured, removal is a bit*ch. Sanding is not the way to go.  Had to take out the torch and strip it with a putty knife.
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Bob
W1RKW
Home of GORT. A buddy of mine named the 813 rig GORT.
His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
KB5MD
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 06:06:06 PM »

 Embarrassed Just when I was finally about to get over selling my MG midget, along comes this post!  That was some years back, but I still miss that little car....those were the days.
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