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Author Topic: Say no to hi fi audio for communications  (Read 36721 times)
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2007, 06:30:07 PM »

sometimes I just wonder what the hell I am doing.

So do we, Gary... so do we.

--Thom
Kryptonite Automobile One Zooming Green Chevy

p.s. Go ahead Gary, tell me you didn't see that one coming!
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2007, 06:34:51 PM »

Tres interessant,
Fun post.

Rochart crystals rock!
Especially into 8 to 15 megs,
thence to a cathode or source follower.

Yea, match the impedance,
couple with known reactances ..(or admittances)
bypass sufficiently,
Constrict constructively.
Peak pernincioulsy.
Banish the negatives.
Thus sayeth the AM Gods.
And you shall have a passable signal.

Yea, we are Hams, not band plan parrots.

And after all is said and done, I like a lot of older gents am getting where I can't hear much above 4kc... But of course according to information theory you must sample at least twice the highest working freq.. and preferably four times or more.  So deaf or not, I need at least 8kc originally sourced, undistorted, to hear a pleasant and mellofluous signal in my ears.

And if rounding down need be done for "communications" or mandated purposes then it should be by or the equivalent of a simple, very pleasant RC filter (6db/octave) or at most a couple of them ganged (12db/octave) to present a gradual roll-off.  And don't forget the phase shift distortion with high amounts of feed back.  -potential oscillations, transformer ringing all have to be considered.

 So yeah, It's not to shabby of practice to design /modify tube impedances in most circuits with 0.1uf in the plate to grid circuits, 20 to 100uf in the cathode circuits and not much more than .001 or 2 in hi freq. plate rolloff to snub some phase shift.  And as most of us know, cascading a bunch of 500pf coupled stages will soon give you a very unpleasant signal. And after all the wide band mod's are made,  bandpass filtering /conditioning can always be installed in the first stage, balanced, 500 ohm or 1 meg. unbalanced, whatever.  Hell we're Hams, not band plan parrots.  Use those 500 pf/ 5kv caps in the screen bypass of your final, ho ho.

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RICK  *W3RSW*
Art
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« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2007, 06:37:29 PM »

"or the ones that were insulting, attacking or just plain rude? "

Sorry G, I tried to hold back . . .  my response is pretty much as insulting, attacking, and as rude as the original post . . . do what you must. . .

Sam,

The unresearched audience, preachy, PC laden, original post will undoubtedly disturb those who have been building and operating AM for many generations. You purvey a one way is right for all attitude. While this approach may be acceptable in some cultures it is clearly not here. Further, it detracts from your ability to convey any valid information you might have. Certainly, it undermines the value of your opinion. I'm going to assume your intentions are good and you are not simply trolling.
Most on this board would prefer to listen on the air to other ops signals and emulate them if those signals merit emulation and if they wish to do so.
Lead from the front with a good sounding signal and inevitably you will get asked what you are using and how you achieved it. It's the sincerest and most satisfying way to effect change. (Thank you Tron, Steve, Steve, G, Mikey, Joe, Bill, Herb, and so many others I can't even think of all the names. . who have done so for me.)
Try whipping the herd from behind as you have done in your original post and you will likely get kicked by some old goat like me.
I am telling you this in the hope that someday you have something of value to transmit and maybe, just maybe, you will be able to get it across before turning off your audience with your presentation.
 . . . . Wow, that didn't feel good, did it? . . . and you really didn't want to understand what was being said. Hmmmmm

Art  W0BA
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« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2007, 06:43:19 PM »

Thom

See what I mean, I gave that to you on a platter!

G



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G - The INR


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« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2007, 06:56:37 PM »

Geez! If that was a concern, the initial post should have been yanked.

Point taken

I just didn't believe what he wrote was what he meant and I felt he was sincere in his concern for our mode and felt he needed to understand what he stepped in to.

I don't know


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G - The INR


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ka3zlr
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« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2007, 07:15:57 PM »

Why I like a Homebrew Side...let's talk radio without insult.
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2007, 07:24:49 PM »

Non, non, non,
We are humans.
We like mixing our sporifics with our brew.
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RICK  *W3RSW*
WA3VJB
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« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2007, 07:32:51 PM »

Quote
I just didn't believe what he wrote was what he meant
Gary you're on to something.
Quote
Why have a broadcast quality Heil mic?

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ka3zlr
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« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2007, 08:10:47 PM »

Yea Yea Yea...I like to mix Brew with pletty Women...LOL.....
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Vortex Joe - N3IBX
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« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2007, 10:57:10 PM »

Quote from: W2VJZ"
These AMers, who hiss and WHISTLE into the microphone, so as to cause intentional splatter, up and down the band, are nothing less than Child Rapers

John,
       Don't forget the comments made by W2VJZ about those "Power Mongers" who use 833's! Nothing could be worse than a "Power Monger" who has hi-fidelity audio!

Mod-U-Later,
                 Joe N3IBX
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Joe Cro N3IBX

Anything that is Breadboarded,Black Crackle, or that squeals when you tune it gives me MAJOR WOOD!
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« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2007, 11:04:57 PM »

Quote from: W2VJZ"
These AMers, who hiss and WHISTLE into the microphone, so as to cause intentional splatter, up and down the band, are nothing less than Child Rapers

John,
       Don't forget the comments made by W2VJZ about those "Power Mongers" who use 833's! Nothing could be worse than a "Power Monger" who has hi-fidelity audio!

Mod-U-Later,
                 Joe N3IBX

And who could forget "Obscene Power" !!
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« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2007, 12:08:06 AM »

"HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING? ARE YOU ON NARCOTICS?"- W2VJZ, December 1999. and while i'm getting my two cents in here, has anybody actually heard this guy (W7XXX) on AM on any band recently? or is this just another explosion of hot air from the legions of the internet peanut gallery?
DE W2JBL
HIFI AM since 1970, and actually on the air...
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Vortex Joe - N3IBX
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« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2007, 12:09:38 AM »

Quote from: W2VJZ"
These AMers, who hiss and WHISTLE into the microphone, so as to cause intentional splatter, up and down the band, are nothing less than Child Rapers

John,
       Don't forget the comments made by W2VJZ about those "Power Mongers" who use 833's! Nothing could be worse than a "Power Monger" who has hi-fidelity audio!

Mod-U-Later,
                 Joe N3IBX

And who could forget "Obscene Power" !!

Steve - Right on! Irb would extrapolate that his father really hated those who ran "obscene power" and were a disgrace to the Amateur fraternity.

Hogs Love Rummies!
                           
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Joe Cro N3IBX

Anything that is Breadboarded,Black Crackle, or that squeals when you tune it gives me MAJOR WOOD!
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2007, 11:10:57 AM »

And those using military rigs were war mongers.


     
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WV Hoopie
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« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2007, 12:01:25 PM »

"HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING? ARE YOU ON NARCOTICS?"- W2VJZ, December 1999. and while i'm getting my two cents in here, has anybody actually heard this guy (W7XXX) on AM on any band recently? or is this just another explosion of hot air from the legions of the internet peanut gallery?
DE W2JBL
HIFI AM since 1970, and actually on the air...

Spent some time on 3.870 with the afternoon AM group in the Pacific Northwest, can't say that I've heard or know (W7XXX). I'll even say that I know most of the AM'ers in Washington, Oregon, Idaho; some of the 7's in Nevada. Never heard complaints from a (W7XXX) about hi-fi audio or bandwidth. Just a troll.................................

73's
wd8kdg
Craig,
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2007, 03:17:28 PM »

That's it....... I'm selling all my computer stuff ! Grin
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« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2007, 05:03:28 PM »

I have to say I miss Irb. Quite the AM character.
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Bob
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His fear was when I turned it on for the first time life on earth would come to a stand still.
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« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2007, 06:01:26 PM »

Here's Sam's bio on qrz.com, it was just updated today. Notice the statement about hearing loss... maybe he no longers "hears" as well as us... sometimes I prefer tinny audio when condx are rough...

Ham since 1964. All vintage style homebrew AM station designed and built by me. The big xmtr is RF 813 300 watts modulated by pair 813 wired as triodes. Exciter is 6AG7 osc and 6146 final. Audio amp is pair 1614's wired as triodes with 12AU7 driver and 12AX7 preamp. Small receiver is dual conversion 7 tubes with tunable IF. Large receiver is 12 tubes dual conversion with tunable IF and followed by 3 stages fixed IF for good selectivity. Small transmitter is 2 807's modulated by pair 807's wired as triodes. It has built in power supply and exciter and audio driver. Power swr meter is build around a Collins unit. Both mics are Heil, the Heritage and pro Classic. Homebrewing is my favorite part of ham radio. I earned my extra class the hard way many years ago. I use my design of a shortened off center fed Zepp tuned for 75 meters. In February 2003 I was diagnosed with Endolymphatic Hydrops and other nerve damage which has resulted in hearing loss, balance problems, Multiple Sclerosis type symptoms which are not typical MS and has retired me from any employment for life. I am the author of three novels, "Talons of Death," "Noha's Arc," and "Equinox's Equilibrium." I also play Flamenco guitar and made my own concert guitar in 1975.
 
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kc2ifr
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« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2007, 06:54:05 PM »

I cant believe what Im reading..................
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2007, 07:06:06 PM »

Why? Is it a good book. Or a magazine. Maybe a flyer? Do tell.


I cant believe what Im reading..................
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2007, 09:00:58 PM »

This dawg don't seem to die.

Jus' checkin' the endless Sam Rad thread and collective info.

I think he's on to something for us hearing impared types....
and not so hot in the vision catagory either,
or feelings.

Yeah, need the crystal clarity of that ol' outside speaker.
Who finally got it anyway?
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RICK  *W3RSW*
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« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2007, 11:44:45 PM »

"There ain't enough room in this here town fer the both of us."

I was just starting to wonder who was going to get run out of town for the month of December. Novembers candidate (maybe it was Oct,) was the guy that didn't want to fork over his callsign. The sheriff done drove him to the town line and then watched him leave!

sk
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« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2007, 12:12:04 AM »

my clean low distortion hi-fi am signal is often narrower than the average ESSB signal and i'm using more than twice the bandwidth of ESSB. a professionally operated hi-fi AM signal is no major threat to the band. if the sidebanders (or other AM'ers) don't like it, well that's just too bad- stay out of the AM Window. stock boatanchors are what splatter and give AM bad P.R. and not hi-fi. i know a guy in Pa. with a stock KW-1 in 100% condition and he's 30kC wide!  SAY NO TO PUTRID AUDIO FOR AM.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2007, 08:25:02 AM »

SAY NO TO PUTRID AUDIO FOR AM.

Yea, what he said!! That kinda says it all for me as well!!

                                                   The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2007, 11:16:09 AM »

my clean low distortion hi-fi am signal is often narrower than the average ESSB signal and i'm using more than twice the bandwidth of ESSB. a professionally operated hi-fi AM signal is no major threat to the band. if the sidebanders (or other AM'ers) don't like it, well that's just too bad- stay out of the AM Window. stock boatanchors are what splatter and give AM bad P.R. and not hi-fi. i know a guy in Pa. with a stock KW-1 in 100% condition and he's 30kC wide!  SAY NO TO PUTRID AUDIO FOR AM.

Good points, Chris. Recently a messy signal was impacting me on 3725. A quick search revealed a VE3 SSB station on 3730 running an amp and badly overdriven/distorted audio. It was late at night so not a big deal, but this guy had nasty artifacts 20 kcs out on either side of his center frequency. 40 kcs wide!!!!

As pointed out previously, we're not dealing with an issue of congestion: we're dealing with the issue of frequency ownership, and the problems it creates. Some AMers are just as guilty as the SSB ops who make it all possible. There is *plenty* of space to operate on 75/80, 40, 160, etc. Too many folks just refuse to make use of it, favoring old haunts and habits. 3870-3900 is indeed a congested mess most evenings, regardless of who got there first and had rights to what frequency. When the band goes long, all bets are off. AM Window? By choice only. Last I heard, AM was allowed anywhere other modes were. Trying to cram all the AM activity into one small sliver of spectrum can only add to the problems.

BTW, I'd also add that in the last 2-3 months there were 4 reports to AM stations of problems with their signals. In each case, the reports aided the station in locating and addressing the issue. Things do break down, lose neutralization, and so on. Even new(er) gear breaks. Rather than pissing and moaning on another frequency about it, do everyone a favor and bring it to the station's attention. Granted, that dog won't hunt if the interference is intentional, but in every instance I heard, the AM station was thankful (albeit surprised) to receive the info.

There is no threat to amateur radio from the mode of AM - HiFi or military grade audio. How can there be when half to three quarters of the band are unoccupied?  Bad operating practices and choices are another matter entirely. But that applies to all modes equally.



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