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Author Topic: Buried Treasures: Understanding and Treating Compulsive Hoarding  (Read 28626 times)
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W1EUJ
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« on: November 06, 2007, 02:16:06 PM »

Webcast on work done with Compulsive Hoarding Disorders. Very interesting.

http://www.bu.edu/phpbin/buniverse/videos/view/?id=95



David Goncalves
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 03:03:57 PM »

http://www.criticalradio.com/VORTEX%20JOE/Web%20Pages/Vortex%20Joe%201.htm


nothing more needs to be said!! Grin Grin
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W1EUJ
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 03:38:25 PM »

I have walls covered in shelves for the radios. Joe has walls MADE of radios.
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2007, 03:42:18 PM »

I have some 1980's check registers...  Wife won't let me get rid of them
I have a printing press in the basement... Wife won't let me get rid of it..................   klc
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K1MVP
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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2007, 04:04:08 PM »

Lets see,--we have acroynyms for everything now courtesy of the "new scientfic" psychiatric
intellectuals who seek to "define", "control" and/or excuse human behavior.

I remember(back in the 50`s) as a kid an old guy who was a trash collector and had both his
front yard and back yard full of "junk",--and as I recall we used to think that ol Max was a bit
"different" or "eccentric", but he was a real nice guy.

Another term that comes to mind from the "specialists" nowadays is ADD(attention deficit disorder)
which almost all kids have nowadays, AND there is even a pill to "fix" the problem.

Years ago if a kid was "hyperactive", parents just accepted it, and made the best of the
situation.
Times sure have changed,--for the better???
                                          73, K1MVP

Personally,--I would rather see a person "addicted" to collecting, than "booze" and many of the
other vices out there.
Makes one wonder why so much attention is given to this "CHD" when we have REAL problems
in society out there,--such as school shootings, drugs and all other kinds of "deviant" behavior.

 
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k4kyv
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« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2007, 04:09:35 PM »

To quote John Mohn, W5MEU (SK):

"Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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W1EUJ
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« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2007, 04:23:27 PM »

>Personally,--I would rather see a person "addicted" to collecting, than "booze" and many of the
>other vices out there.

Like any addiction, there is some point past where you are under control, and transition in to a level of preoccupation where it begins to affect your life negatively. I've seen the same with the hoarding - we aint' talking about the basement being full here - the cases here aren't called 'compulsive' until living space begins to be eliminated - dining rooms, bathrooms, living rooms; the afflicted begin to feel anxious/depressed because part of them knows they have lost control. We've all heard the stories of the harried cat ladies, buried under the mess of cats, feces, food bags, etc.

Everything psycological isn't psycobabble. While there is some bad science out there (I partially agree with the overclassification of minor issues as syndromes), I think we are in a better time - those heady days of treating disorders with electric shocks and ice-picks are over. But, alas, we only just replaced the metal tools with chemcials - there is still so much to learn.

David Goncalves
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Carl WA1KPD
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« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2007, 04:57:10 PM »

Naw

Slab- I don't think of Joe as a compulsive hoarder as the fascinating thing about his place is that there are rarely two things alike....

Now compulsive collector........  I'd go with that but then again Bill Gates is a compulsive collector of $$$$

I'll agree with that. But hot damn, its fun to visit both Joe and his collection. Ham radio is lucky to have him
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w4eal
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« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2007, 10:18:51 PM »


Like any addiction, there is some point past where you are under control, and transition in to a level of preoccupation where it begins to affect your life negatively. I've seen the same with the hoarding - we aint' talking about the basement being full here - the cases here aren't called 'compulsive' until living space begins to be eliminated - dining rooms, bathrooms, living rooms; the afflicted begin to feel anxious/depressed because part of them knows they have lost control.

David Goncalves


OOPs. Do bedrooms count too? Holy whiz I think I need help. Crap!

Den
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2007, 10:56:39 AM »


I think that a lot of these 'experts' base their findings more on personal preference than actual medical fact. In the old radio world, it's often a case of simple envy/jealousy in declaring that so-and-so has too much stuff and should 'share' it with the rest of the community so that others can benefit. Socialism meets amateur radio.

'Hoarding' seems to be one of the more overused and misused words today. There's a huge difference between amassing useful items vs. half-eaten food, used tissues, and other garbage having no further use while presenting a health risk. Personality types who want a sterile, empty-looking, new age apartment might consider more than one chair as hoarding. Others might consider them to be mentally imbalanced for their preference.

It really comes down to personal preference more than anything. Compulsive behavior strikes me more as something you'd rather not do, but can't stop yourself - not something you enjoy doing and look forward to. The fact that someone else might think you're crazy for having a bunch of big, heavy metal boxes in your house when 'you can only use one at a time' shouldn't be the determining factor. I have a fairly large pile of stuff, yet feel no compulsion to get more. Days, weeks, months can pass before something catches my eye or piques my interest. I also get rid of stuff from time to time, yet depending on personal preference of the person judging me, I could be seen as a hoarder for having (in their opinion) 'too much'. A trip to the Vortex is in order before they lock him up for his own good.

The thing I can't understand is what Carl mentioned: collecting multiples of the same item. If it's for reasons of establishing variations, then sure. But identical items? Couldn't the time/space/money be better used in providing variety? More stuff!   Wink

No, if you're determined to have 'too much' in today's society, you're wrong for it in the eyes of many. Despite your freedom to do so, effort and intellect put into it, and so on. Yet, if you play the lottery and lose then get depressed because you were stupid enough to have the money already spent mentally, they create a sickness for you: Lottery Fantasy Syndrome. Forget common sense and accountability, you poor thing. It's not your fault.

Go figure.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2007, 11:46:35 AM »

Like Mack I ended up with 3 Pierson KP-81 receivers and speaker/power supplies from the same seller; one unmodified, another complete but with the front end loctals replaced with miniature tubes, and the third is a parts unit missing the front end and coil catacomb.  I have one in operation with the Viking 500 and I plan to restore the other one-probably going back to the original loctals.  I also sometimes pick up duplicates either to find a better example of a rig I already have or to provide trading material for the future.

I am sure that a "shrink" would be happy to take my money for treatment but I run into enough psychologists at the university without actually paying to associate with one.  Leaving campus yesterday I saw one of the Psych profs wandering around the quad with a bag gathering acorns-the perfect setup for a Far Side cartoon.  One person's joy/hobby is seen by others as an obsession.  My wife has around 60-75 pairs of shoes and she is happy; if I had to deal with that many shoes I would be too confused to get dressed in the morning.

It is really a statement of our quality of life that we have time to worry about such ridiculous pseudo-problems.  There was an article last week about a Chinese village where roughly 35% of the population has some form of cancer-apparently from water pollution.  The factory responsible provided $200 (for the entire village, not per person) to provide for their "care".  Those people have real problems and no one would pay any attention if one of the citizens decided to start collecting chop sticks.

Ah, now for some more solder fumes!
Rodger WQ9E
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Rodger WQ9E
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2007, 11:57:54 AM »

How many times have you sold something...some piece of gear or some hard-to-find part and then shortly after, realized that it was something you really needed?  It has happened to many of us, I'm sure.  Perhaps, the fear of getting rid of some irreplaceable treasure is an incentive for not getting rid of it to start with, or "hoarding" stuff.  There are millions, if not billions of collectors in the world.  If it weren't for collectors...what would happen to eBay?  One interesting aspect of collecting and/or hoading stuff is the option for future use of those items to trade for items that you might need or want in the future.  Certainly a lot of old radio parts fall into this category.  A good stock of parts and "stuff" enables us to help others with their needs, as well as gives us the means to acquire currently needed items for our own projects.  Now all I have to do is convince my XYL of the importance of this philosophy.  She does not seem to appreciate my piles and piles of radio junk which occupy too much space as far as she is concerned.  Smiley

73,  Jack, W9GT
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73, Jack, W9GT
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2007, 12:31:03 PM »

Ya got to have three.... one to work, one as backup, and one as spare parts.......   Clocks? need 3... how can u tell what time it is (WWV) unless you have 3... 2 wont do 'cause one can be off and how do one know what one do be off? klc
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2007, 02:54:06 PM »

Or what about that empty, hollow feeling of having had something and disposed (sold, etc) of it. And then needing it, or just wishing you had it back!! Cry Cry

Been there, done that, and usually ended up paying more for the replacement than I sold the original for!!
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k4kyv
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2007, 07:55:59 PM »

Perhaps, the fear of getting rid of some irreplaceable treasure is an incentive for not getting rid of it to start with, or "hoarding" stuff.

That's why I'd much rather trade for other irreplaceable radio treasure than to sell anything for money.  All money looks and feels the same, regardless of its source of origin.  But once a radio treasure is gone, it's probably gone for ever.

Quote
She does not seem to appreciate my piles and piles of radio junk which occupy too much space as far as she is concerned.

I solved that problem when I had my shack moved onto my property.  Like much of my radio stuff, which is scrounged from what other people didn't want, even my shack was scrounged.  It had been slated for demolition, but was given to me free of  charge in exchange for having it moved out of the previous owners' way.


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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2007, 11:31:06 PM »

Like anything else there are extremes.  Then again, isn't this what eBay is for?  My wife's main concern is what she would do with all this stuff if anything happened to me. 

Methinks it's time to cut down drastically on the bulk.  But, where to start???

73,

Michael, W1RC

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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2007, 05:17:06 AM »

My buddy Carl, VA3CGM is a physician. He took a  look at that Compulsive Hoarding Disorders webcast and  found it interesting,  amusing,  and thought-provoking.  He also chuckled a  lot.   He also has a basement full of boatanchors, parts, debris, etc. His garage is  chock full too.    He also figures  "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."    He also doesn't want to get cured.

Me neither!
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2007, 07:33:46 AM »

sometime you just cant keep it. At one time I had >40 fully restored receivers, back to factory new pretty much. But you can only use one at a time. We all dont "own" anything anyway - we just get the use of it for a while. I would have to have sold my collection at fire sale prices after I got sick. Glad I got rid of hem long ago and dont want anymore. I cant carry them or work on them, so why bother? I had more than my share when I could handle it.

Collectively, we are saving history for future generations and thats what is important.
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K8WBL
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2007, 08:47:40 AM »

Well, as one of those "specialists" as well as an old ham guy - I can say all of this new scientific has its place, but just dont take everything too serious.   My friend, another ham, business guy, stated to me once that "The church used to handle that sort of thing" - told him that (we)(counselors, etc) hardly ever need Exorcisms, these days... hi hi  But like most areas of science, etc, things do get taken to extremes with diagnosis, treatment directions, etc.  Half of that is simply "money making" - Rx sales reps are pounding hard their NEW variations and docs are encouraged by "everyone" clients as well as companies to try something else to see if it works or helps.  And the docs also know if they say "No" long enough about a new drug, the patient will simply go find another doc soon and he loses his patient.

So, question is, its a matter of degrees, no hard line between what is NORMAL and what is CRAZY - do you need a pill to fix a behavior?  Well, really depends on the behavior and if its a "chemical imbalance issue" and its REALLY a Problem or just an inconvenience....you wouldn't deny a person with diabetes medications, so to a person who hears voices, and we are pretty sure its not God...meds do help...but Sure...meds are over used by the docs - and families want a "fix" to Johnny's trouble making behaviors.  I am quite sure I could be diagnosed with Adult ADD - a lot due to age, memory slipping, and the attention span of a Nat!  hi hi  But if society could more easily accept those "eccentric types" living next door, ( I say this as my beam and tower lay all over the back yard and I live next to a church where everyone has been starring at me!! hi hi)  We would certainly be better off.....

73, Tim K8WBL
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W1UJR
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2007, 09:31:51 AM »

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but perhaps under the new and politically correct system of making every eccentricity a "disease" (after all, the drug companies can't sell pills for a hobby, or eclectic activity, only for a disease) one could actually obtain disability benefits and simply stay home for "treatment"?

No need to work, after all, you're disabled! (and get to play radio all day long, its part of your addiction/illness!)  Grin
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K8WBL
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2007, 11:30:45 AM »

"just stay home and collect disability benefits"  Well, more easily said than done, but your right....the key word here is "substantial gainful activity" that Social Secuity uses to determine if you are granted disability benefits..  Basically, if you can "prove" that your disability prevents you from getting or keeping a job, then you got a case. 

My previous supervisor has severe CP (cerebral Palsy) and uses a scotter to get around and an attendant to take him to work and home, he cannot drive, cannot walk, has use of one arm/hand...mostly to sign things...hi hi .... at 55 he decided to "retire" and applied for disability benefits...."sorry" they said...you get to work every day?  you make enough to get by?  No disability payments to you...Doctor then told him to "call in at least one or two days sick a week"  , he did this and within 6 months "won" his disability claim....oh well.... I will keep working I guess...hi hi

Sorry for the off-topic, back to radio stuff....
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2007, 09:24:51 PM »

Then again, everything is relative.  What is the difference between a serious collector of things and the compulsive hoarder?  Is it a disorder when all the stuff is organized so particular items may be found with ease?  The thesis of the lecture seemed to focus on the disorganizational aspect of the condition.  Is it a valuable collection or is it "clutter"?  Are there pathways through each room because of the sheer quantity of the stuff? 

About ten years ago when I lived in the wonderful Commonwealth of Massachusetts my friends and I had the opportunity to clear out a house that was literally packed full of stuff, mostly radio and electronic equipment.  We named it "The Schmeg".  Anyone who went to Hosstraders at Rochester NH from 1996 - 2000 saw us getting rid of it.  What we couldn't sell we gave away.  The truck we rented always went home empty. 

It was unbelievable what this individual had accumulated.  His "stuff" filled his house to the point of overflowing and he even had an off-site storage facility to handle the overflow.  Even though I am not a mental health care professional I feel safe in saying that this guy had a problem.  But he sure had some really neat stuff!

There's actually a name for it - DISPOSOPHOBIA - The Fear of Getting Rid of Stuff aka the Collier Brothers Syndrome.

If you want to read about a real classic case read about the famous Collyer Brothers!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers

There's a cool website called Disposophobia.Com with some interesting videos of various "schmeg houses".

http://www.collyerbrothers.com/

Enjoy!

73,

MisterMike


 
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2007, 09:49:10 PM »

Quote
Then again, everything is relative.  What is the difference between a serious collector of things and the compulsive hoarder?

MisterMike, the whole hoarder stigma can be avoided if you can call your collection a 'museum' while keeping a straight face.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2007, 10:01:46 PM »

For those suffering from severe "DISPOSORADIOPHOBIA", call me, I can help! Your radio junk carried away for FREE!
Mack

Mack, from what I remember from the time we stopped by your place, you are not too far behind Vortex Joe.  But your stuff is more broadcast transmitters and studio equipment, than receivers and ham stuff.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2007, 11:15:39 PM »

But Vortex actually gets on the air and uses his stuff. Tongue
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