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$424 Dipole




 
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Jim KF2SY
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« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2007, 01:49:29 PM »


Yep,
Actually was a center fed inverted vee, ladder line fed.  (same tree for center support, apex at bout 45 ft.)  Complaints (minor) from the xyl
about hearing me on the  vcr, phone, computer speakers, etc. run about the same as is now with the ocf dipole.   Man across the street also hears me on his computer speakers, but he actually like it cause he's a ham (not active) ,he likes to hear my AM qso's as it brings back some fond memories for him, I guess.
;-)
Why is this surprising?  Most of the hams I talk to who have similar small
lots always get into something somewhere. 
-jim

 
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Glenn NY4NC
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2007, 01:54:06 PM »

"My antenna looks like a box kite!"


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kf4qkr
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Old Buzzard AM


« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2007, 05:11:28 PM »

 I run a 2 element phased array which is 2 full size dipoles .The wire I made them with was free.The 500 foot of 75 ohm coax was free and so were the poles that they are mounted to .The nice EF Johnson insulators I used were free (got them in a free box of goodies at last years Winston Salem hamfest).I had to buy 3 pl259s and the rope and a T conecter.Oh yea the relays I use to change the phasing were also free.So mabee I have 20 bucks in the whole antenna.It will take 550 watts of carrier and old buzzard all you want.Trust me I have tested it.And I bet you a hole in a doghnut that my 20 dollar antenna would blow the doors off that overpriced so called factory antenna.The point is dont be afraid to build your own antenna its easy and most of the time they perform better than the ones you buy!
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Mike
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Don
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2007, 05:38:28 PM »

You'd be surprised how many hams are even hesitant to build a simple dipole.  One of the posters stated that he had bought one, and it worked well for him.  And yes, he knew he could build one, but being a relative newbie, he wasn't sure his building skills gave him enough confidence to do so. 

Here is that posting in its entirety:
Quote from: k4gun,July 07 2007,13:58

Well, I'm one of the "suckers" who bought one of these and one of the reviews at Eham is mine.  Like your DXer buddy, I'm pretty happy.  Are they overpriced for what you're getting?  Maybe.  The wire itself is pretty good stuff.  The balun is very solid and uniquely constructed so the coax connection is shielded and the ends are nicely finished with heavy duty crimps.

Before I bought it, I looked at similar configuration Windoms which cost about half as much.  I also looked into building my own.  I'm new enough into the hobby that I don't trust my own skills to make one. I was able to put my hands on other pre-made ones and each just seemed flimsy compared to the Buckmaster.  They probably would have worked just fine, but I decided that I'd rather spend a lot once, rather than less but have to spend more later. 

I didn't buy it blindly.  I knew it was expensive for what it was.  I also knew the advertising copy was filled with hype and exageration.  So what? 

It works.  I have VERY limited space and mounted it as a loop stapled to the roof of my townhouse.  Yes, as a loop.  Its plugged into my Icom 746 Pro and I have made contacts on 6, 10, 20, 40, 75 and 160 (yes, 160).  To me, that makes it worth it.  If you don't, there's a very easy way to deal with it... don't buy it.


How in hell are you ever going to develop "trustworthy" skills if you don't start at the beginning?
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
KI4VEO
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2007, 06:04:27 PM »

That MUST include coming to your QTH and installing it, too !!!   Smiley

I can't believe that price....and it is the "Summer Discount" price....jeeze....we better load up on these, eh?
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W1GFH
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2007, 06:28:18 PM »

Jim KF2SY: Guess I've been lucky, I've never had RFI issues with a balanced antenna, but that only applies to my particular installations. I understand each QTH has its own unique situations and consumer appliances to contend with.

Don KYV: I am always surprised that new hams lack basic soldering skills. But I guess in 2007, soldering is no longer a part of ham radio.
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AF9J
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2007, 07:34:23 PM »

Hi Don,

I just got off of the 'zed, and I read your response to the guy. I wonder if he'll come back with another excuse.  One of his excuses, was that he was never completely sure he made things right, and as a result, would probably never really be confident of his own antenna work.  Ugh!  Get real!

73,
Ellen - AF9J

P.S. - I goofed in my earlier post. It was different ham,than Mr. No Confidence, whose friend took one these fancy schmantzy OCF dipoles to Peter 1 island.
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Rick K5IAR
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2007, 08:01:36 PM »

All of this raises my concerns over the state of ham radio.  I'm not talking about the "code" issue or the band allocations issues.  I'm concerned with the apparent dumbing down of hams.  I can't even imagine a ham back in the 60's when I was first licensed not having the confidence to build a simple dipole.  It takes zero ingenuity and almost zero ability.  The layout and dimensions are in every ham manual if the formula is too difficult.  I think this is a real indicator of what the "appliance operator" has brought to the table.  It takes absolutely no knowledge of radio or radio circuitry to turn on a modern rig and talk or tap out cw.  If the antenna is not matched well simply hit "Tune" on the multi thousand dollar rig and viola! you're good to go.  So, why would these same people have any confidence in themselves or in their ability?  I'm not condemning anyone for their choice of radio or their way of operating.  I am simply stating what seems to me to be the cold hard reality of ham radio.  It is or has turned into a commercial entity and the art of homebrewing and antenna construction is slowly fading into the past.

...that's a whole nickle's worth!
Rick/K5IAR
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kf6pqt
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2007, 08:13:01 PM »

Yes, I think homebrewing is a small minority subset.

Shame, but I think its a result of too many people taking "WARNING: no user serviceable parts inside" too seriously over the last quarter century.

Hey, as long as I had a screwdriver that fit the screws, it didn't stop me.
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
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Don
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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2007, 08:30:35 PM »

It always amuses me when I hear someone on the air describe his station, and mention that he is using a "homebrew dipole", as if it is supposed to be something out of the ordinary for the dipole to be built by the operator, using a roll of wire, some insulators, a feedline, a measuring tape and a few other tools.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2007, 08:46:36 PM »

All of this raises my concerns over the state of ham radio.  I'm not talking about the "code" issue or the band allocations issues.  I'm concerned with the apparent dumbing down of hams.  I can't even imagine a ham back in the 60's when I was first licensed not having the confidence to build a simple dipole.  It takes zero ingenuity and almost zero ability.  The layout and dimensions are in every ham manual if the formula is too difficult.  I think this is a real indicator of what the "appliance operator" has brought to the table.  It takes absolutely no knowledge of radio or radio circuitry to turn on a modern rig and talk or tap out cw.  If the antenna is not matched well simply hit "Tune" on the multi thousand dollar rig and viola! you're good to go.  So, why would these same people have any confidence in themselves or in their ability?  I'm not condemning anyone for their choice of radio or their way of operating.  I am simply stating what seems to me to be the cold hard reality of ham radio.  It is or has turned into a commercial entity and the art of homebrewing and antenna construction is slowly fading into the past.

...that's a whole nickle's worth!
Rick/K5IAR

I suspect many 21st century hams have little interest or time in "homebrewing" and/or antenna construction. Simple or not, it's just not a high priority. For many, it's probably more fun and interesting just to get on the air rather than diddling 300 pounds of hardware to get up and running or building an antenna no matter how "simple" one might perceive it to be. Buy the off-the-shelf rig with the auto-tuner, get the ready-made antenna; hook them together, plug it in, and you're good to go. If they have the bucks, and are satisfied with their choice, why chastise them for their decision. "Homebrewing" and antenna construction will be around as long as there are hams who have the interest to do them. The 60's are long gone. There was never any guarantee that ham interests and ham backgrounds of the mid 20th century would continue to be the same today. Like all things in life, after almost 80 years, amateur radio is also evolving. It's about time.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
kf6pqt
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« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2007, 09:27:57 PM »

Yeah, but come on, $424 for a freakin dipole... This must mean there are a LOT of hams with a LOT more money than sense... Where are they, we should all fleece them!

Wink
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
W1GFH
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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2007, 09:41:46 PM »

Quote
Buy the off-the-shelf rig with the auto-tuner, get the ready-made antenna; hook them together, plug it in, and you're good to go.

In that case, there's no difference between ham radio and a cell phone.

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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2007, 12:32:27 AM »

Yeah, but come on, $424 for a freakin dipole... This must mean there are a LOT of hams with a LOT more money than sense... Where are they, we should all fleece them!

Wink

If you read the QRZ thread, the hams that admitted buying them, bought the lower priced 300W or 3KW antenna.

Yaesu high end transceiver tops around $14K. Icom 7800 around $11K, that new German transceiver $14K to $16K. We got medium priced rigs anywhere from $1.9K to almost $6K. And all, before antennas, microphones, and other "must have" accessories. "more money than sense" - not really - the ham market seems to be supporting the pricing - hams want what they want and are willing to pay the price for it
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2007, 12:44:01 AM »

Quote
Buy the off-the-shelf rig with the auto-tuner, get the ready-made antenna; hook them together, plug it in, and you're good to go.

In that case, there's no difference between ham radio and a cell phone.

Can't call CQ on a cell phone; can't work DX on some remote island with a cell phone; can't works contests with a cell phone; can't work AM, SSB, CW or PSK with a cell phone; can't work moonbounce or meteor scatter with a cell phone. Need I go on?

Time is very valuable to many people, including hams, these days. They have no time to screw around trying to homebrew something for weeks or months, or trying to reconstitute some rig that's been handed around a dozen times or more. Plug and play works for them because it satisfies their needs.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
KI4VEO
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« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2007, 01:54:06 AM »

Everyone has made valid points.  Some of us just see the hobby from a different perspective.  Saving money, or time, is not always the endgame.  There is a level of satisfaction achieved which comes from building, creating, or restoring something...it is unavailable at any price, but requires a sacrifice of time, but a desire to do so.  An added benefit is learning something new.

I am a "handyman" kind of guy.  I do my own auto repairs (to a point - Clint Eastwood, aka Dirty Harry, "A mans gotta know his limitations"); I learned plumbing, electrical wiring, roofing, drywall, carpentry, etc.  (Thank you "Time Life").

I know my limitations...and when to seek out a pro and pay the going rate.

Those of use that desire to be "hands on," will continue to do so...those that do not, will probably remain at arms length.

Those that prefer to buy a $425 dipole will continue to do so.  Should the marketplace decide that $425 is excessive, the pricey dipole will not sell.  Buckmaster will then have to lower the price to regain marketshare.  Or they may fall along the wayside if another company offers a similar diople for a lower price.  This is referred to as a Market Economy. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market%5Feconomy
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kb1jcy
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« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2007, 03:04:09 AM »

zOMFG!1!!11 $425 for a diaper pole??!!

The K1CRA Web Store is selling 40m diaper poles for $17.95:

http://www.k1cra.com/catalog/product.aspx?productID=1334
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Ed-VA3ES
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« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2007, 07:55:34 AM »

I  built my own  1/2-wave dipole from parts.   I purchased the 150' of stranded copper antenna wire, the 100' feet of 16ga ladder-line, and a "Ladder-Loc"  feedpoint insulator.  I assembled the whole thing and hung it up on my tower.   I use home-made  standoffs to keep the feed-line away from the tower, and "transpose" the line down the tower (mild twist in the line).   The connection to the house is via large bee-hive feed-thru  insulators.   It works brilliantly.

Total cost:   $115.

But for some, time is money, and they don't mind spending the money for a  quality product. 
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Rick K5IAR
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« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2007, 11:43:57 AM »

I agree, Pete.  Many people prefer the plug and play method of ham radio and I applaud them for doing what they enjoy, the way they enjoy doing it.  However, my original point was that this is leading to less experimentation, fewer innovative break throughs by the ham community and a general lack of technical knowledge on the part of ham radio operators.  Whether that's a good thing or not I have no idea, but I do know it seems to be the way of the future.  As earlier stated it's been a long time since the 60's and technolgy has moved forward by leaps and bounds.  My opinion is, a lot of those leaps and bounds were a direct result of the ham radio opereators of the 60's and earlier.  Whats' gonna happen from this point forward if that pioneering spirit, that desire to experiment and push the envelope is no longer alive, will we continue to make progress as before?  Time will tell and my simple observations will not sway the course of time and progress.  I do want to state for the record, I agree that each and every operator, each and every ham who has taken the time and made the effort to get thier ticket, no matter when or under which rules and regulations they got it, should be allowed to operate as they please and without hassle from anyone. 

Rick/K5IAR
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2007, 02:51:33 PM »

  However, my original point was that this is leading to less experimentation, fewer innovative break throughs by the ham community and a general lack of technical knowledge on the part of ham radio operators.  Whether that's a good thing or not I have no idea, but I do know it seems to be the way of the future.  As earlier stated it's been a long time since the 60's and technology has moved forward by leaps and bounds.  My opinion is, a lot of those leaps and bounds were a direct result of the ham radio opereators of the 60's and earlier.  Whats' gonna happen from this point forward if that pioneering spirit, that desire to experiment and push the envelope is no longer alive, will we continue to make progress as before? 
Rick/K5IAR

Actually Rick you don't have to look to far to see innovation, experimentation, and maybe even bringing a product to life in the current amateur radio world.

A bunch of hams brought the software defined Flex products to market. Lots of software and hardware experimentation and it's on-going. The HPSDR stuff that GFZ and others are experimenting with is great stuff and all developed by hams. We wouldn't have the Elecraft K2 or K3 until a bunch of hams got together and developed the products. Icom's D-Star is a result of  a bunch of Japanese amateurs developing the necessary requirements. Look at the Steppir antenna products; adjustable elements on your beam from the shack, developed by a ham.  Check the advertising area of QST and CQ to see all the innovating products that hams are bringing to market as a direct result of "garage" development and/or experimentation. A one year review (any year) of QEX magazine would roll you over with the amount of experimentation, innovation, and development that hams are, or have been doing, over the last years. We now have amateurs who have conquered 2-way communications well above 24 GHz. Couldn't have done that back in the 60's. The pioneering spirit of today's amateur is alive and thriving. The "60's and earlier" innovations were great; they served many purposes back then and still some purpose today. But, time marches on, and so does the type of amateur radio experimentation and innovation.

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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Rick K5IAR
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« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2007, 03:15:19 PM »

Excellent point, Pete.  I guess my old eyes failed to see just how much progress has been and is being made.  That's a problem with an old buzzard like me, we sometimes live in the past and the future just flies right past us.  My old brain is way too far gone to grasp all of this new technology anyway, so thank goodness for the new guys and gals who are forging onward.  Thanks for the reminder, Pete.

Rick/K5IAR
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2007, 03:16:01 PM »

DEES darn sharp software guys are trying to take over.
Us hardware pukes need to keep em honest.
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