$424 Dipole

[W1GFH]

You've heard of the "$4 Special" (http://www.qsl.net/wb1gfh/antenna.html)...

...Now meet the "$424.00 dipole"!


"7-Band OCF Dipole Antenna (5,000 Watt) - $499.95! Summer special: $424.96!"

http://hamcall.net/7bandocf.html

  (speechless)

[WA1GFZ]

Wow it would be cool to see the end insulators go up in flames with 5 KW on it

[Rick K5IAR]

I sent a note to Buckmasters asking if the dipole would stand up okay under a 375 watt carrier and 1500 watts PEP output.  I received a quick response stating, "...it should do a good job for you."  He also stated, "Be sure to verify that the SWR is really right (using no tuner) before running AM.  Good SWR with no
tuner equates to a cool balun."  It sounds pretty good, BUT I don't understand the price tag?  Why so much for a piece of wire. a balun and a couple of insulators?  Maybe I'm just cheap.

Rick/K5IAR

[kf6pqt]

I already know I'm in the wrong business. I should sell my soul and then start manufacturing and selling "high end" Ham Radio products.

[AF9J]

Ahhh, I read about this dipole, in a thread in qrz.com.  Most think it's a ripoff.  Others think that considering its sturdiness, it may be worth it.  Personally, I'd just build it myself.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[KF1Z]

Uh..... Ummm....gee....

Don't know WHAT to say.....!!

It doesn't even come with a chunk of coax......


Can't believe it.........


And to think ... if I was getting 3 times my money for a product.... I wouldn't make my customer wait 2-4 weeks before I shipped it.....
(I'd get it out right away before they came to their senses....)


Oh well.....

[Ed-VA3ES]

Obviously made for them by Alpha-Delta:
http://www.alphadeltacom.com/dxocf.html

[kf6pqt]

I should start making one out of 1/2" copper pipe (the flimsy grade) and say they'll handle 10kW, and sell them for a BARGAIN price of $220. How much does it cost to advertise on eHam?

[W1GFH]

No, you're going the wrong way. Make them out of international orange (avoid aircraft collisions) color, oxygen-free (crisper highs and lows), teflon-coated (superior dynamic range) multistrand wire. Gold plate the connectors (Better impedance transfer). Sell them for $1000 each.

[W1QWT]

From the Alpha Delta installation directions link:

"Attach a good quality 50 ohm coaxial cable (e.g. RG8X or RG213) to the SO-239 connector sealed in the precision designed 6:1 balun (auto-transformer) at the feedpoint of the antenna. Run the feed line at 90 degrees away from the antenna wires."

In my opinion I don't think RG8X would qualify as "good quality" especially at 3KW.
THey also said,

"It is actually inexpensive compared to having to replace other antennas after several winter storms."

My $70 (in parts) open wire fed dipole has been up for 5 years now. It has probably been through 30 winter storms. Does this mean I should replace it?

If this is a HAM band only antenna how come the hamcall site has a 5KW version?

Oh yeh, one more question. What does a "precision designed 6:1 balun" mean?
6.000000:1.000000 maybe?

Regards
Q
W1QWT

[AF9J]

No, you're going the wrong way. Make them out of international orange (avoid aircraft collisions) color, oxygen-free (crisper highs and lows), teflon-coated (superior dynamic range) multistrand wire. Gold plate the connectors (Better impedance transfer). Sell them for $1000 each.

LOL!!  Yuppers, you'll have killer transmit audio, with all of the highs and lows you've gotten back, that were lost on that "cheap" copperweld!

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[kf6pqt]

My setup:

Two broken (only 2 out of three sections) push-up masts... center and end:  free, scrounged.
15 feet pvc pipe for the other end: free, but probably paid for coupler section and pvc cement for another project: free

Half of the 100ft spool of 450 ohm ladder line: $11

Rope: I think I paid $2

Insulators: Free, center is a scrap of pvc pipe, the ends are sawed off tops of drinking water bottles.

Wire: separated strands of old cat 5, free, neighbor gave it to me.

[kf6pqt]

Oops, forgot the aluminum painters' pole, 12 feet, that extends the apex of the vee: $12

Grand total, $25. Man, I'm a gold-chainer! 

[AF9J]

My setup:

Two broken (only 2 out of three sections) push-up masts... center and end:  free, scrounged.
15 feet pvc pipe for the other end: free, but probably paid for coupler section and pvc cement for another project: free

Half of the 100ft spool of 450 ohm ladder line: $11

Rope: I think I paid $2

Insulators: Free, center is a scrap of pvc pipe, the ends are sawed off tops of drinking water bottles.

Wire: separated strands of old cat 5, free, neighbor gave it to me.

You used CAT 5 to make an antenna?   Cool!  I did the same thing in college, in 1986, to make the 4 1/2 foot tall helical vertical I used on 160, with my FT-101B, indoors at the time.  We had a 20 foot scrap piece of multi conductor networking cable in the hamshack at W9YT (the Univ. of WI club station).  I basically pulled out 7 or 8 wires.  I soldered them together till I had about 135 feet of wire (about 1/4 wave on the low end of 160).  I then wrapped it around an old broomstick handle I found, and voila!, 160m rubber duck antenna.  Being stupid at the time, I fed it with the center conductor my 15 foot scrounged piece of RG8U, and fed the coax braid with a wire, that went to the electrical outlet ground (see what I mean? - dumb).  I had to put an aluminum pie tin on the top of the antenna, to dissipate corona effect from the RF field.  When I tried a stinger made from aluminum ground wire, sparks emanated from the stinger tip!  Due to the different colored wires I used (some of which were striped), my roommates said the antenna looked like a giant candy cane!  Before you laugh, I got the design out of the 1973 or 74 Handbook.  It worked pretty good on CW, and I remember having phone QSOs out several hundred miles (although I did have some height advantage - my apartment was up 4 stories).  Total cost - I think about $15 for a cheap SWR meter (I had sold my MFJ t-match w/SWR meter to another ham 3 months previously).  I still have the SWR meter, stored away in my storage space in the basement of my building.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[WA1GFZ]

So who thinks there is a resistor across the balun. It's a feature preventing ice build up in the winter.

[W1UJR]

So who thinks there is a resistor across the balun. It's a feature preventing ice build up in the winter.

Ah, yes Frank.
A copy of the B&W Folded Dummy Load Dipole.
But I will say this, it does work, lossy, inefficient, but if even some of the RF gets out, you're on the air. In NY I had a B&W unit on my test bench, amazing how well it did work, dummy load and all!

I also had a friend lacking a 160 meter dipole, suggested he tune up his 75 meter dipole using a "tee" connector off a large broadcast dummy load. Worked it did, efficient it was not.

Still, I too do not get the price, just don't see the value there.

[flintstone mop]

YUP
We used the B&W dummy load antenna for the Y2K joke. And they worked pretty well on those ALE Motorola radios. 100 watt SSB and the aerial was only supposed to be no more than 30 feet from the ground (NVIS). The company spent $50k for 10 of those radios and we put the dipole with aluminum poles. B&W couldn't meet the demand at that time for their magical antenna, and the ALE HF networks that most other utilities were scrambling to assemble before the dreaded Jan 1st. DOOMSDAY!!!
160M was very poor performance. 80M and above was ok for just 100watts. I guess a KW linear would have helped.
Fred

[kf6pqt]

Ellen,

Yep, I unraveled the 4 sets of pairs, but didnt unravel the pairs themselves. Short of using reclaimed CRT deflection yoke magnet wire, all my antennas have been made with chintzy wire and have survived a brutal Southern California winter!    (hey, the wind kicked up to almost 40 mph once!)

When one does crap out, I'll look at it as an opportunity for improvement.

As far as the "fancy" B&W stuff... when the solar cycle is on its way up again, I want to see how many 20m slopbucket qso's I can make on a Saturday afternoon with a 100w lightbulb for an antenna!

[Bill, KD0HG]

FAKE ALERT
They've NEVER improved on the Gotham V-80, by cracky!!

Only $18.95 FOB Miami.

Add $4.00 for Railway Express shipment.

[The Slab Bacon]

Ahhh, I read about this dipole, in a thread in qrz.com.  Most think it's a ripoff.  Others think that considering its sturdiness, it may be worth it.  Personally, I'd just build it myself.
73,
Ellen - AF9J

Not to sound like some kind of self-righteous bastard, BUT...............................................

Anyone who cannot build their own 1/2 wave flat top dipole antenna should not even be a ham!
I'm sorry, but that is one of the first things you learn in your novice days!! I feel that it is absolutely disgusting for someone who calls himself a ham to buy a pre built dipole antenna!!!!!!!

Unless you are blind, or have some other physical impairment that renders you physically unable, there is no excuse for someone to buy a pre built flat top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                                      The Slab Bacon

[AF9J]

Believe it or not Frank, there were quite a few comments on the qrz.com thread, that said what you just said.  You're supposed to know what length a dipole is supposed to be (after all, there are questions on the test that ask you how long a dipole would be at a certain freq.), so certainly anybody with half a brain should be able to build a dipole.  Other than being a little more tedious (due having to move the feedpoint a few times, to find a workable multiband happy medium impedancewise), OCF dipoles aren't much harder to make.

You'd be surprised how many hams are even hesitant to build a simple dipole.  One of the posters stated that he had bought one, and it worked well for hime.  And yes, he knew he could build one, but being a relative newbie, he wasn't sure his building skills gave him enough confidence to do so.  Because a friend of his took one of these expensive OCFs with him on the Peter 1 Island Dxpedition, and raved about its sturdiness, and lack of need for a T-match, he was sold on the antenna. 

My living situation has always forced me to be creatve with antennas, and as a result, do a fair amount of expirimentation. It has been frustrating at times, but it has also been rewarding, and at times fun (although it's no fun making solder connections when the temp's 20 degrees, and you have no gloves on, so you can handle the antenna wire or feed, while soldering).  It also taught me a fair amount of info about antennas.  Expririmenting with antennas can be pretty cheap to boot.  Still, there are plenty of hams who would never consider building antennas.  Last year, there was a relative newbie in the HFpack group, who kept on responding to antenna posts on the Yahoo board, asking where he could buy the antenna such and such had just posted about, or portable antenna that could do such and such a thing for him.  It got kind of annoying, until somebody politely told him, "hey, plug and play is OK, but try building (and expirimenting with) your own antennas.  It's not hard to do, and can be pretty fun."

BTW - here's the qrz.com thread for the $424 dipole:

http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=d73b73eb5cb68d37240055f118657d6f;act=ST;f=7;t=161002

Many respondents also thought there was a nice lossy resistor in the balun, helping with the impedance matching.  Like I said above, I'd prefer to build my own (minus the resisitor of course).

73,
Ellen - AF9J

[W1UJR]

Hey Ellen, tell us how you really feel! 

My personal antenna gurus follow.
All honorable men, all not selling an antenna product, all with distinguished professional backgrounds.
A most interesting read is Maxwell's discourse with the ARRL regarding "conjugate matching", well worth the read --> http://w2du.com/Chapter07.pdf
This later caused some friction between himself and the League, an interesting story.


Walt Maxwell W2DU --> http://w2du.com/



Kurt N. Sterba (pen name) --> http://www.wr6wr.com/newSite/products/software_cd/wr1999.html



Lou Cebik W4RNL --> http://www.cebik.com/radio.html

[Jim KF2SY]

I built my ocf dipole several years ago for maybe about 50 bux max.  It's rugged, completely weatherized with the proper RTV, (another thread someday) center support, and using 14ga. insulated wire.
I wanted something that would present nice impedances at even harmonics that my crappy tuner could handle.  Plus, building an ocf dipole would fit my tress in the yard better than a conventional dipole which I had before.  Also, building the conventional dipole just seemed, well....boring.  After much research and exstensive modeling with EZNEC, yes, feedpoint impedances at even harmonics are quite nice.  But please don't take my word for it.  Just model it yerself and see and compare.   Sooo, I do not think their is a magic resistor in this commercialy made version. 
But this (and that) said, $424 is obscene to charge for a wire antenna. 
Perhaps it's their marketing of making this antenna seem more exotic to less experienced hams that emboldens this company to charge this outrageous price.

P.S. Yes, there is small rfi issues with the imperfect balance of this antenna.
But no more than what I had with the conventional center fed. 





 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

$60 or $400, it’s all in the marketing. The $60 antenna has to compare itself and compete with all the other ~$60 antennas. It’s hard to hype, “our antenna is better” when there’s other antennas all selling for roughly the same price. At a much higher price, the hype can be more space-bound with some “informative text, some pretty pictures, throw in a chart, etc. Higher price to many means better quality, better performance, more tolerant of weather, etc. and are willing to pay that price for that perceived perception. Donating products to some DX or contest expedition, and then getting some good posted feedback, also helps the market the perception. Likewise, if you have a history of good products, which may not be inexpensive, the price for this antenna to the end customer can be more understandable. Plus, it provides the manufacturer and dealers more price wiggle room if the market becomes soft.

[W1GFH]

P.S. Yes, there is small rfi issues with the imperfect balance of this antenna.
But no more than what I had with the conventional center fed. 

You had RFI issues with a center fed flat top?