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Gas prices are not encouraging hamfest attendance! How About Alternative Fuels?




 
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Author Topic: Gas prices are not encouraging hamfest attendance! How About Alternative Fuels?  (Read 110796 times)
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W9GT
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« on: May 15, 2007, 08:25:43 AM »

Well its up to $3.19 on average here in northeastern Indiana.  We will make it to Dayton for sure, but might be discouraged from taking some longer trips later this year.  I hope that the situation eases soon.  Maybe we need some new ideas for alternative fuel sources.

How about a car that runs on road kill?  We frequently see a lot of dead deer and various varmits at the side of the road.  Heck, all you would need would be a big shovel....load 'em up into the hopper.

Some kind of processor that would convert various organic matter into methane or other useable fuel would be needed.  Maybe it could also make use of road apples deposited in the road by Amish horses that we occasionally see around here.  You might even be able to load that material "on the run" with a scoop on the bottom of the vehicle and a conveyor belt.  Wow! I wonder how many miles-per-"chunk" you could get?   Grin


73,  Jack, W9GT
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W1ATR
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 09:22:48 AM »

Caddy is coming out with that new Escalade that runs on bald eagles.

Soon enough, the animals would run out and the murder rate would quadruple overnight. That scoop idea would morph into a claw that shoots out and grabs people walking on the sidewalk and sucks them into the grinder.
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 09:37:31 AM »

Whataya expect when the EPA hasn't let a new refinery be built for 30 years ?

Even at 110% capacity they couldn't keep up with demand.

2007 demand levels with 1979 capabilities
 Huh
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W9GT
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 09:53:42 AM »

Soon enough, the animals would run out and the murder rate would quadruple overnight. That scoop idea would morph into a claw that shoots out and grabs people walking on the sidewalk and sucks them into the grinder.

Yikes!!! A new twist on the Soylent Green concept.

 Shocked

73,  Jack, W9GT
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 10:19:12 AM »

Hey maybe the people of Iraq are good for something...
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 10:28:59 AM »

Oil ain't the problem Frank. We can get that.
But we can't do anything with it when we get it.

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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 11:01:51 AM »

Oil ain't the problem Frank. We can get that.
But we can't do anything with it when we get it.


We need to say piss on the epa and take a large step backwards in technology. Years ago we had large industrial engines that ran on
"Bunker oil" which was nothing more that crude oil with the trash and debris strained out of it. Why not cars and trucks that use it. it only takes basic diesel technology to make it work!! It just smells nasty  Grin


                                             The Slab Bacon
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kf6pqt
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 11:09:09 AM »

A couple of summers ago I bought a rustbucket clattertrap POS little Mercedes diesel sedan for about $250. It was a good engine in a car that was practically screaming to be junked!

about 40 hours of my time and about $700 in parts, it was all straightened out. (You can see where this is going, hard to come out ahead!)

Anyway, this was during a time like now where fuel prices were spiking. Diesel #2 was $3.33/gal down the block.

BUT, you could go to Costco and get a 4.6 gallon cube of Soybean oil (meant for cheap salad dressing) and that would come out to around $2.70 a gallon. Just get a big funnel and pour it in the tank. Wink Though you had to keep a couple gallons of real diesel in there too, to make it easier to start when the sun wasn't out... and this is warm CA!

The slug of a car actually went a little bit quicker on this stuff! Major side effect was that the exhaust smelled like Chinese stir-fry.

Anyway, sold the car for a slight profit to my neighbor who drove it for 6 months, then decided he wanted a big Lincoln now that gas prices had settled down. He offered to sell it back to me for a third of what he paid for it... Duhh, sure! Sold it to someone else for a bit more than the neighbor paid, and only THEN did I come out ahead.

I kind wish I still had the thing for a mobile radio car... As previously mentioned, diesels have BIG alternators, and NO ignition noise!

Then someone GAVE me a really ratty Olds diesel sedan... Man, that was the pokiest V8 I ever drove... but it had an exhaust leak ahead of the muffler and sounded awesome!  We poured all sorts of crap in that tank and it ran on anything... rancid french fry oil, etc. The best was used, filtered 5w-30 (water) motor oil that came out of the rice-mobile: James Bond Smokescreen(tm).  !!!

But yeah, dont try any of this on any car thats still worth more than it's scrap weight!  Wink

-Jason kf6pqt
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 11:26:30 AM »

Bud, We sure need to build more cracking plants but the big guys bought up all the little guys and shut them down so only one gang in town..... the gang of greed.

Man, I could imagine blowing down the 405 with some cool fuel mixture with a pile of smoke behind me smelling like "jump in the box" exhaust.
that would feel like flying an F4 in full AB...CHP hot on your trail

Gee, I only tried marvel mystery oil and water injection when I was out there.
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 11:31:48 AM »

I figure it cost me about $300 between time off and gas to go to Deerfield to buy 2 small variable caps and a $5 power supply.
So glad everyone was nice and friendly after spending all that cash to hang out.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 12:51:29 PM »

Whataya expect when the EPA hasn't let a new refinery be built for 30 years ?

Even at 110% capacity they couldn't keep up with demand.

2007 demand levels with 1979 capabilities
 Huh

I'm not so sure that it's the EPA that is keeping them from building refineries.  As long as they can hold the fuel supply down, they can ask higher prices and save construction costs on new infrastructure to boot.  Yes, they would have to to build refineries to 2007 standards.  If the oil co's really want to build more of them and can't, it's more likely the same "not in my backyard" attitude that exists in many localities that has made it difficult if not impossible for broadcast stations to erect or upgrade transmitting towers.

But is there really a shortage?  I haven't seen any gas lines lately, nor any "out of gas" signs on any pumps.  There seems to be plenty to go around, just a little higher in price.  It may take more of today's Dollarettes to pay for it, but it's still cheaper (in terms of real money) than it was when the price peaked in the early 1980's.

If you ever lived anywhere near Houston, you would know exactly why the EPA sets emission standards for oil refineries and chemical plants.  Just take a stroll through Pasadena or Toxic Texas City.
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wa1knx
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 01:00:26 PM »

I kieep hearing $5 & $6+ dollar a gallon prices coming. they also
have been predicting hyper inflation coming. 6 bux a gallon would
be a start of it.
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W9GT
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 01:27:51 PM »

Whataya expect when the EPA hasn't let a new refinery be built for 30 years ?

Even at 110% capacity they couldn't keep up with demand.

2007 demand levels with 1979 capabilities
 Huh

 As long as they can hold the fuel supply down, they can ask higher prices and save construction costs on new infrastructure to boot. 

Yes!  How many other businesses can you think of that actually are rewarded and make more money for reducing production or holding it at the same level?  Part of an interesting and increasing trend of higher prices for less goods and services.  Can you spell INFLATION?

73,  Jack, W9GT
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 01:45:39 PM »

Quote
I'm not so sure that it's the EPA that is keeping them from building refineries.

It's true Don. 4 times in the last 10 years BP filed for EPA permits, with all the impact statements and millions in filing fees, to build new refineries on the Gulf coast of Texas. All turned down by EPA mandates on environmental protection.

"course they kept the filing fees !!!

AND Frank: just remember .... for every $ of profit per gallon gas an oil company makes the feds make $2 in taxes.
So ....  who's really screwin' us?

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kf6pqt
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 02:53:30 PM »

Propane to a diesel engine is as nitrous oxide is to a gasoline engine. Wink

Hmm, and those turbodiesel Benz's are often found for cheap...
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 03:24:27 PM »

Bud, I know who is screwing me and think there needs to be a hangin on the mall.
Dean, 10T in the hole get ready
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wb1aij
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 04:08:14 PM »

Running a vehicle on road kill is not as far fetched as some might think. I read an article about a train in Switzerland or Norway that does just that; it runs on methane from the rotting innards from a slaughter house. They even gave the mileage in cattle/mile but I don't remember the numbers. I would not want to work in the "Fillin Station."
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wb1aij
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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 04:12:18 PM »

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/25/cow_powered_train/

Above is the address of the article on the methane powered trains & busses. They are in Sweden, not Norway or Switzerland as I said before.
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W9GT
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2007, 04:45:55 PM »

Well, the incentive has increased!  Gas price here is now $3.399 /gal.
Let's see, where did I put that shovel?

 Shocked Roll Eyes
73,  Jack, W9GT
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2007, 11:07:27 PM »

Whataya expect when the EPA hasn't let a new refinery be built for 30 years ?

Even at 110% capacity they couldn't keep up with demand.

2007 demand levels with 1979 capabilities
 Huh

Bud:

Here's the problem.

The less product the refineries deliver, the more profit they make.

So why should they build any new refineries?

Seriously. I'm not being political, that's the fact. No company is going to invest in the expense of building a new refinery if the end result is a lowering of fuel prices and less profit.

The biggest refineries in the Northern Hemisphere are in the Carribean- The Virgin Islands. Hovensa is on St. Croix and is one of the largest refineries in the world.  Even though there's be NO opposition, they won't expand the place. The oil companies won't build refineries down there, even though the locals would welcome them.

It's all about money, not the EPA. The less you produce, the more you profit.

It's screwed up, man.

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n3lrx
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2007, 12:14:10 AM »

The prices of fuel here are $3.099/Gal. for the low grade 87 Octane.

It is funny how back in the 70's oil crunch prices skyrocketed, yet never came close to the prices of today. In fact, they never went down! After the so called Gas Crisis was over the prices never dropped back down below $1/Gal. (At the time around here it was around $0.65/Gal)

It's funny how people always blame the president when in truth Oil is no different than the stock market, its the investor that sets the prices and not the Oil Co. or the President! I'd love to see how many Democrats blaming Bush/Chaney for high oil prices have interest in the oil market! I'd be willing to bet quite a few are making a killing! But you'll never hear about that in the liberal bias media!

To top off the high gas prices the lame brain Governor here in Maryland is talking about raising the fuel taxes another $0.35! Typical Democrat.. Raise the taxes! He claims he wants to use the money to improve public transportation. More than likely its to force people to use public transportation because they can't afford the gas! Is the state Gas Taxes set by the Governor Bush's fault too??

Then there is the EPA. Oil Co's are waiting in line to drill for more oil, and build more refineries but the tree hugger lobbyists and bureaucrats wont let them! Now we've got China and Chavez talking about angle drilling into US shores to steal the oil off the shores of Florida!

Its all about greed, and the greediest of all is not Big Oil, its the investors and the Govt. without having to blame the president because they're all guilty as charged before you even get anywhere near the executive branch!
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KF6LES
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2007, 02:40:02 AM »

And posts like that are not encouraging hamfest attendance either! I thought this board agreed to avoid the political digs? So far this thread has insulted the Iraqi people,Democrats,and anyone with enough common sense to care about their environment.This board is clearly biased Wink . Come on now boys & girls,if you have posts stating things like what a good idea it would be to drop a nuclear bomb on people then you really are not any better than those cb'ers,75 meter nets, or other boards that are often disparaged here now are you? We can all agree that there is a  disconnect here from what kinda board most people on the "politically charged" thread stated they wanted,and some of the posts on this thread for example. Moderators,what say you?                   Rob Welch
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W1RKW
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2007, 04:35:24 AM »

The cost of fueling the vehicle was the thing that kept me from going to NEAR-Fest.
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2007, 07:43:09 AM »

Whataya expect when the EPA hasn't let a new refinery be built for 30 years ?

Even at 110% capacity they couldn't keep up with demand.

2007 demand levels with 1979 capabilities
 Huh

Bud:

Here's the problem.

The less product the refineries deliver, the more profit they make.

So why should they build any new refineries?

Seriously. I'm not being political, that's the fact. No company is going to invest in the expense of building a new refinery if the end result is a lowering of fuel prices and less profit.

It's all about money, not the EPA. The less you produce, the more you profit.

Bud is exactly correct and here is why:

In most other industrial markets where profits are being made, entry into the market buy new producers (i.e., new competition) is not discouraged like it is in the oil & gas business. We see upstart companies enter existing markets all the time with new, better cheaper versions of the product to take market share away from the established companies. I remember when Collins, Hallicrafters, National & Johnson were the established ham radio producers. Their products were expensive ($600 in 1958 = $4300 today). Enter Yaesu, Kenwood, etc. Prices came down & products (ultimately) got better.

In the oil & gas biz an upstart faces huge obstacles to entry in the market. Can't drill here, there or anywhere. Can't build my refinery here, there or anywhere. So no new product in the market. So supply stays where it was & demand keeps on growing. Price has no where to go but up.

As my smart Alec teenage daughter used to say to me "Do the math Dad".

Terry
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2007, 08:06:11 AM »

I wonder how many people stayed away because of the high cost of 'Olene.  Perhaps you can find another person locally and car pool. 

Hope to see you at NEAR-Fest II in October.

73,

MrMike, W1RC
The cost of fueling the vehicle was the thing that kept me from going to NEAR-Fest.
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