Austrailia to Ban Incandescent Bulbs

[WA1GFZ]

Bob,
Oil Co says all CT oil comes from New Haven. Then they said it could be sludge in the tank. One tank is 40 years old so that may be possible
Ther second one was put in during the don vito bush time frame. Both filters plug. I saw there is a fluid Home Depot sells to take care of sludge and may try it. Our oil Co. is pretty big so they have plenty of flow. A couple guys at work notice the same thing and they all are in different areas. My present filters are just over a year old and I have new ones to drop in if there is a problem. I do notice the filter material has changed. It looks like the filters do a better job compared to the old ones that looked like a ball  of string. Now it is a real element.
Home Depot sells them for about $3.

[k4kyv]

The Freon bit had to do with the Chlorine in it destroying the ozone layer. Truth is that just one active volcano pours out more Chlorine that we produce with freon. More bad science to get money for grants and BS research.

What about the chlorine used to disinfect the water supply and swimming pools?

Ozone-depleting substances mentioned are compounds containing chlorine, apparently not the pure element.

http://www.ciesin.org/TG/OZ/oz-home.html

[wa1knx]

california I heard wants to ban incan's. so no more bathroom heat
lamps? have 2 here and great in the morning after a shower. and what
of those with electric heat? regular bulbs all contribute to your homes
heat. I warm up the bathroom here in az turning on the 6 vanity bulbs.
works nicely. why not let free market work. I use compacts like over
the stove, it runs 24x7 as a night light.

[W3RSW]

Umm, back on topic.

I suppose someone else here has already pulled one of these lamps apart to see what's inside. I cut my finger breaking the spiral glass tube, of course, in getting the d**n thing apart.

Jeeze, enough parts to build a radio!  Get three or four of the earlier models and you can have a complete shack.

In one 13 watt Phillips I see one transformer, one 33uf/200v 105deg.C electrolytic, 3 ea. 1n4005 diodes (if I read em right), 2 more switching diodes in small glass pkg., 2 Motorola T5N25E 3pin regulators or some sort of push pull osc. transistors w/ the mounting hole tabs cut off, bunches of 1kv square package capacitors and resistors, e.g., MKP 6n8k@1kv, and of course the printed circuit board measuring about 1.9 in. dia. The transformer complete with iron core appears to be 3 pins (ct) and 2 pins out, and measures abt. 0.7" high, 0.6 wide and 0.4 thick. Well that'd be good for a class E kilowatt : )

Can you imagine the infrastructure necessary to manufacture these things by the billions, the heavy metals containment, disposal processes that would be necessary if done in the supposedly 'green' perfect world desired.   Reminds me of all the sci-fi, "Cover the World with photoelectric cells power generator" scenarios. Not mentioned, of course is the following mass world pollution from kilotons of seminconductor doping elements, arsnic, etc.  Shadowing of the ground in great swaths also will have some pretty interesting effects.

  Yes another, not thought out at all, political solution containing many levels of unintended consequences.  Of course, all will self collapse long before we get to the one billion mark. Well, I stand corrected...  look at McDonalds.

[Bill, KD0HG]

I've been using GE CF bulbs in our overhead kitchen fixture for maybe a year now.

The fixture originally used six 75-watt candelabra-base incadescents for a total load of 450 watts, and several bulbs usually burned out over the course of a year. I replaced them with six 18-watt CF bulbs for a total load of 108 watts, saving 342 watts. Assuming 6 hours of average use per day, that's 6x342x365= 748,980 watt/hours saved per year, 749 KWH. At 8 cents/KWH, that's a savings of ~ $60.00 per year! That more than pays for the bulbs, and I haven't had to replace one yet.

I'm using four warm white bulbs and two cool white bulbs in the fixture and the resulting color quality is indistinguishable from incadescent bulbs. There's NO QRN generated on either my ham rig or the AM table radio on the kitchen counter. The only difference is the bulbs take about 1/2 second to turn on.

This has nothing to do with politics, for cryin' out loud, guys, using CF bulbs is a no-brainer!

[Art]

What we have heah. . . .is a failure to communicate. . .

IMO. . . more efficient generation of light is a good thing. CFs are more efficient and should be promoted. Technical issues such as RFI should be the focus rather than tossing the baby out with the bath water. I'm looking forward to the next big technological breakthrough to LED illumination. . . .

Piggybacking global warming on utilization of a more efficient illumination source is like saying an umbrella works better than a newspaper over your head, therefore the sky is falling.

Oh yeah, be careful when you are disassembling the CFs. . . I understand they have mercury in them. . . .

[WD8BIL]

Not quite true. There would be no federal research grants related to global warming studies and etc. The gov hands out tons of $$ for all kinds of grants. Some are good, some seem ridiculous.

Picky picky Steve. In context ...... I'm right. But your point is frustrating non the less !!

Gee .... with all the replacement bulbs in the 'hood it's much easier to tune for max scrote. I just look out the window and tune till my neighbor's house is lit as bright as I can get it !!!!

[Bill, KD0HG]

Oh yeah, be careful when you are disassembling the CFs. . . I understand they have mercury in them. . . .

I agree that the use of CF light bulbs shouldn't be tied to anything more than my grandma's penny-wise ways. Mack/VGB, they seem to have made great strides in RF-proofing the things, if only light dimmers and those nasty touch switches were as clean.

2 to 15 milligrams of HG per compact flourescent bulb, to be precise.
ONE coal-fired power plant emits 200-500 pounds of mercury per year, that's around 200,000 grams. About the same amount as contained one-time in 20 million CF bulbs.

The tradeoffs are amazing if one thinks about them.

Now if they only worked with dimmers. ;-)

[Bill, KD0HG]

I'll be reinstalling the dimmers and GF breakers after we sell this place! HiHi

LOL!

Anyone that uses a hair dryer while taking a bath *deserves* to leave the gene pool.

[Art]

"Now if they only worked with dimmers. ;-)"

Home Depot (JFK Dr.) off of Harmony in Fort Collins has some CF floods that say they are dimmable. . . . . I am looking for standard dimmable CFs but haven't found any yet. . .

k3xf/0

[W1RKW]

Four or so years ago when my wife and I moved into the current QTH I was determined to cut the electric bill by 1/3 (Liz likes to have every light on in the house).  I converted 90% of the lights in the house to CF bulbs back then.  The fixtures that were used on a constant basis got CFL's.  I lucked out at the time and Home Despot was running a sale of CFL's that amounted to a bulb costing about a buck and a quarter a piece so I grabbed several dozen of them.  Replaced the lights that were used on a constant basis and some other lights that weren't.  I reached my goal in cutting the electric bill by 1/3.  The savings paid for the bulbs in 3 months. 

One of my concerns was with RFI.  Surprisingly, only one of the bunch was a noise maker. All the others are quiet as a mouse.  Not bad for $1.25 ea.

The utility company jacked the prices up recently.  Possibly for the cost of generation (but that's debateable) but I think for the loss they are suffering from everyone else converting to energy efficient appliances and lights.  I saved money temporarily. Now I'm back to where I was 4 years ago.
 
The next plan is to use the sun for electric and sell it back.

[W1RKW]

"Now if they only worked with dimmers. ;-)"

Home Depot (JFK Dr.) off of Harmony in Fort Collins has some CF floods that say they are dimmable. . . . . I am looking for standard dimmable CFs but haven't found any yet. . .

k3xf/0

Art,
My brother converted a basement area into an office area and he found some compact flourescent floods that are dimmable.  I will ask him where he got them.  I think it was Home Despot but not positive.
rkw

[Art]

"Not mentioned, of course is the following mass world pollution from kilotons of seminconductor doping elements, arsnic, etc."


LOL, and it takes more energy to make ethanol (ethanol powered tractor?) and Hydrogen than gasoline. C'mon amigo. . . you are supposed to follow the lemmings off the cliff and not think that much. . .

Ya want energy independence? Tell your congressman to allow your local utility to build nuke plants and allow (new) drilling and refining of US oil. . . .

*and* do the full on CF, hybrid, yada, yada efficiency improvements to hold the line on energy consumption. . . does anyone really think we are going to be using less energy
in the US in the face of increasing population and production? Hmmmm, I guess if we export all our jobs. . .we could cut down on the production energy usage. . .

The heat lamps. . . could be considered heaters! That, incandescents do well. . .

-ap

[Bill, KD0HG]

"Not mentioned, of course is the following mass world pollution from kilotons of seminconductor doping elements, arsnic, etc."


LOL, and it takes more energy to make ethanol (ethanol powered tractor?) and Hydrogen than gasoline. C'mon amigo. . . you are supposed to follow the lemmings off the cliff and not think that much. . .

Ya want energy independence? Tell your congressman to allow your local utility to build nuke plants and allow (new) drilling and refining of US oil. . . .

*and* do the full on CF, hybrid, yada, yada efficiency improvements to hold the line on energy consumption. . . does anyone really think we are going to be using less energy
in the US in the face of increasing population and production? Hmmmm, I guess if we export all our jobs. . .we could cut down on the production energy usage. . .

The heat lamps. . . could be considered heaters! That, incandescents do well. . .

-ap

Art:

Please chill out.
We're only talking about our experiences with light bulbs.
I really don't want this to turn toxic.

Thanks.


-Bill

[WD8BIL]

There's NO QRN generated on either my ham rig or the AM table radio on the kitchen counter.

A few years back I bought a Sylvania CF and printed on the box was a warning that the device DID NOT meet FCC Part 15 limits for conducted and radiated emissions. Being that I worked in a emissions compliance lab and did Part 15 testing in our sleep I decided to run it thru the gammit.

The conducted emissions were out of this world. 37dbuv above the limit. (60dbuv)
The radiated emissions out to 1gig were 40 dbuv/m above class A out to about 200 Mhz
and just in the class A limit from there on.

The warning was quite an understatement.

The new GE 13 watter meets all class A limits and is quite close to being Class B compliant for conducted emissions. They've come a long way in cleaning up the act.

FYI: There's typically 10 db difference between Class A and B.

 

[Art]

"Art:

Please chill out.
We're only talking about our experiences with light bulbs.
I really don't want this to turn toxic.

Thanks.


-Bill"

Bill,

Thanks for your concern. You mistake enthusiasm for aggression. When I see what I think is absurd, I state it. When I see something I support (like the CFs) I also state it. You will also note that I did not take the thread off topic. In fact, I pointed out that the CF discussion had been hijacked and brought it back on course by participating in the practical application discussion and providing a suggestion of where to get dimmable flood CFs.

I find when some people disagree with a position that is presented with enthusiasm it is easy for them to see aggression and toxicity where there is none.

Finally, if you have something to say to me and no point to make to the rest of the list please feel free to send me an email.

All the best,

Art

[John Holotko]

"But there's a concenses among hundreds of scientists that it's happening and Man must be causing it !"

Problem with this proclamation is....
Concenses has no place in science. (Remember when the world was flat ? That was concenses.)
Without proof it's still just hypothisis.
Besides, light bulbs make good dummy loads. When you pop a 150 watter you know you got strap !!!

There is no such thing as "proof" in science. Proof if an excersise in mathematical logic,  not science. In science you have "hypothesis"  which is an educated guess as to why something is happening. Then you have observed facts which is the data used to formulate a theory.  Lastly you have a scientific theory which is a best fit interpretation of your data. To become an accepted theory you publish your theory and studies supporting it and it undergoes a peer review process. The key point is that sceintific theories are NEVER proven. To say that a scientific theory is invalid because there is no associated "proof" is a fallacy.

A few common misconceptions about global warming theory.

1) Global warming is a fact NOT a  theory. it  is a measured,  observed phenomenon and is therefore not  theoretical

2) Anthropogenic global warming IS a theory. It has scientific consensus because it has passed the peer review process and provides the best fit interpretation of the interpreted datasets.
Thus, it is not concensus that makes it good science it is good science that  gives it concensus.

Lastly, most people fail to understand the difference between proof, fact, theory and law when it comes to science. The following link provides an explaination of these frequently confused concepts.

http://www.carlton.srsd119.ca/chemical/Proof/default.htm

73's

[WD8BIL]

You're wrong John.
Nothing in science is accepted without proof. Until then it's just theory.

[WB2RJR]

To skeptic Bud,

Today the United Nations of Mars called for the immediate implementation of the Mars Kyoto Agreement by ALL nations. The reason? Unprecedented global warming as seen here:

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2005/07/13/

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

"Obtaining absolute 'truth' in research, say Djulbegovic and Hozo, "is impossible, and so society has to decide when less-than-perfect results may become acceptable."


http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-02/plos-imp022207.php

[WD8BIL]

I'm not totally skeptical Marty.
You evil oil/gas drillers gotta have a hand in all this. AND.... MARS wasn't warming till we started sending our stuff up there..... was it ?

....has to decide when less-than-perfect results may become acceptable."

That's the only way a Buddly could get hitched Steve !

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Good one Buddly.

Yep, it's all an evil plot by NASA to pollute the galaxy. Look at all the space trash currently orbiting the earth.

I'm not totally skeptical Marty.
You evil oil/gas drillers gotta have a hand in all this. AND.... MARS wasn't warming till we started sending our stuff up there..... was it ?

....has to decide when less-than-perfect results may become acceptable."

That's the only way a Buddly could get hitched Steve !

[WA1GFZ]

Bud,
60 dBuv is 1 mv of RF. I wouldn't want a tom vu type signal strapping me from the other side of the basement. Throw them all in the trash as far as I'm concerned. I like the UK Def Stan limits when it comes to radio.

Al Gore's light bill was over $2000 last month. 

[k4kyv]

I once read about a serious proposal to terraform Mars by using the planet to dispose of earth's CFC's, by loading them on a space craft that would crash on the surface.  This was supposed to increase the greenhouse effect to hold more heat, melt the ice, and generate a denser atmosphere.  Then certain genetically-engineered microbes would be released that would begin to break down the soil chemicals and generate a bio-mass.  After a period of 1,000 to 2,000 years, the planet might become habitable for humans and other earth creatures.

The only problem is that those who initiate the experiment will not live long enough to see if is a success.  Kind of like suicide bombers - they don't get to see the results of their mission.

[WD8BIL]

Al Gore's light bill was over $2000 last month.

That's ok Frank. he payes..... somebody.....ahhhh.... I think somebody's company giving carbon credits to offset his emissions.

Oh YA...... it's HIS company.