The AM Forum

Due to circmstances beyond my control, it is with a very heavy heart I post this message. With a last minute decision we have decided not to set up the special event station.

Evey year we have done this for the enjoyment of all who come to the fester. We set the station and AM corral up for all of youse guys to hang out and have fun. It has been a great joy for me to do this. this year has put a few obstacles in out way, but it looked like we were gonna pull it off.

With a surprizing lack of response from the rest of the AM community we still planned to have the station up and going. Only a VERY few people showed any interest in coming. Despite all of this John and I were still planning to pull it off.

the crippling blow came in an email and fone call around lunchtime today. John and myself got together for a meeting a few minutes ago and decided that, given the current circumstances it just wouldnt be possible to pull it off this year. We just will not be able to make the pieces come together this time.

If anyone is still planning to attend the fester, we will be there, maybe we can get together for a handshake and or a burger.        It is with a very heavy heart that I make this post.........................

                                                                    The Slab Bacon

OK Frank, looking forward to walking around and talking some more.

John -- catch u there too.

I want to be among the first to thank you for your determination to run the show the past ten seven  years. That's quite an accomplishment, I hope you realize.

I believe I can speak for many of us who really appreciate your efforts.

UPDATE:  A few shots among those seen today at the fester/Saturday

Frank,

Que shako?

You guys are more than adequate to pull this off, QTF.

Sorry I (we) won't make it but counting on those who would.

Who chased the joy away??

Frank,
       I'm very sorry to hear about this. You know my present circumstances, and unfortunately, due to my wife's health issues, I was unable to attend this year.

I was looking forward to the next best thing, which would have been working "W3F" from home; as a lot of others who couldn't have attended would have done, and listening to the fun and general goings on. I would have been a hoot!

Many thanks for all the effort you, John, and others put into the preparations. I was looking forward to hearing everyone modulate your "I2K" - Invader 2000. Hopefully, things will happen next time around.

Very Best Regards,
                         Joe Cro N3IBX

 

Hiya Frank,

Maybe next year will work out better. I wanted to work W3F as well. I recall that you weren't too sure about this year to begin with, so your announcement doesn't come as a great surprise.

We'll just do the next best thing... I'll see you tonight on 75! :)

 I couldn't make it this year.

My wife and I went up to visit my son at college this weekend.

I'm doing CQ CQ Contest on 6, 2, and 432.

The first AM station I heard was Tom, WA3KLR last night on 160, then these guys on 75m this morning.

Not a bad $8 radio, eh ?
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Well, I wasn't going to say much about the demise of W3F, understanding bad luck and the working world plight of others.
 
....other than I'm now a diesel horn aficianado/ both ways/ up hill/ in the snow/ passenger, freight, commuter/ every 10 minutes all night long.  So my mood matched Pauls...
until I found the 813 sockets, ceramic plate caps to match, 650pf-15kv doorknobs, etc.
AND the Eimac 4x1 aluminum blower ready socket.  Enjoyed seeing those who could make it.

But I was lucky. Yeah was on the road Friday and missed Franks e-mail, but was luckier than Bill who drove all the way from Ohio.

If Farfest survives into next year I'll be surprised.   ...with the Rodeo and all, we won't even be missed.

Lots of discussion on the air last night as to why this once great fest (more than 10,000 attendance) has fallen so far. It seems many fests have gone down hill, but others, notably HossTraders, seem to keep rolling along (although I'd be interested in hearing from those who have attended Hosstraders over the years if attendance has slipped). So the question is why? I have a few thoughts on why, but just that thoughts, nothing concrete.

 - Aging ham population - less likely to want to drive and/or walk (or be even able to do so).

 - Moved 3 or 4 times in the last few years, although, attendance was down after the initial move from Gaithersburg to Bowie, MD. It should be noted moving locations hasn't seemed to hurt HossTraders.

 - This year in particular, the fest was just five days after Labor Day and the long weekend. It's likely many people travelled over Labor Day and weren't inclined to do another road trip just five days later.

 - Less interest in fests due to more Web based outlets, eBay, etc.

 - Increasingly worse traffic in and around the Washington, DC area. Gaithersburg is just 15-20 miles northwest of DC.

 - Alien brain implants (just kidding).


What do you guys think?


Gaithersburg, The Good Old Days

1997

(http://www.amwindow.org/pix/jpg/gburg97.jpg)


More photos at http://www.amwindow.org/pix/htm/modgb97.htm


1994

(http://www.amwindow.org/pix/jpg/rrock.jpg)



1996

(http://www.amwindow.org/pix/jpg/gburg96.jpg)



1998 - The Last Year at Gaithersburg

Slide Show!  http://www.amwindow.org/pix/htm/gburg98.htm

Probably Alien brain implants  ;D

Yep. Seems people would sooner P&M about gas prices than come up with ideas to save fests. Oh well.... Guess we can just blame it on the ARRL. That gets us off the hook.

It would seem to me that the fate of some 'Festers are left up to the shzt Godz. Sometimes they let shzt happen, and sometimes they don't. Who are we to question their divine rights when it comes to their shzt?

Hopefully, we'll all be in favor of the shzt Godz next year and they'll make shzt happen! Look at it this way, it gives us all plenty of time to take care of other shzt to have the time to all get together with the special event station to all do our shzt!

As a bonus; it'll give Jay, N3WWL plenty of time to plan to make it down ;D

Joe N3IBX

I agree "shzt" does happen. This may have been the cause of no special event station this year, but it does not account for the lack of interest in the station or the extremely small hamfest attendance. It begs the question, shzt or no shzt, why put on a special event station if no one shows up?

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Hola Steve,

I was really surprised when told of the attendance numbers last night. When I last attended Gaitherburg in 98? there was maybe 10,000 people there.

Last Spring Hosstraders was also sparser than normal. There were rare times when you could look down an isle and see no people except for maybe QIX buying door knobs and heat sinks...  ;D  In contrast, in the past on Sat, the crowds were so thick you could not get near some tables and were bumping into people.

But, Hoss was still a great time and the AMers came out in full force. That's what counts - a good time. I know you're thinking of coming up and joining Gary and me for flesh shushi Thurs nite and on to the fester... so if the WX is reasonable let's do it, OM!

Later -

T

Have you ever been standing at a party (beer in hand) not realy noticing what is going on around you until you notice everyone around you just noticed too - silence.  Then, give it a sec and it picks back up again like no big deal.  I'm hoping these attendance swings are just that - a momentary lull.  Time will tell.

I don't know about the rest of you guys but the older I get the more I have to do and it cuts into Ham Radio time. I remember the days of playing radio 5 nights a week and now I'm lucky to have time for 2.
I suppose I like to hang out with my kids and do other things.
I remember Hostraders taking in 7000 in some years. Today it is further north which keeps some away.

I think you hit on something. Hamfests have to about more than chasing the almighty deal. That depersonalizes the whole thing and once the deals go away, those chasing them don't show up. Hamfests started as social events, not money grubbing, deal chasing flea markets. Maybe it's time to increase the social aspect of fests. I think socializing is part of what brings so many AMers to HossTradrers.

I'm all over the sushi fest on Thursday B4 HossTraders, KAYMOAN!

Definately Brain Implants !!!!

That's quite a message!

No way Buddly. There has to be a brain to implant!

1) Everything has to make LOT$ OF BUCK$ nowadays.  Hamfests are traditionally not big profit centers.  As a result, the traditional Montgomery County Fairgrounds Gaithersberg fest got axed years ago, and has been a 'maybe' ever since.  Computer fests are much more popular and profitable.

2) The years keep going by, and we're getting older.  We're going to pack up and lug five hundred pounds of gear across two states, and then get $300 bucks for it?

3) E-Bay.  So much easier; more money, too.

4) Our lives are more complex, and we have less time for hobbies.

5) Hamfests have been on a decline for many years.  I remember articles about it more than ten years ago.

I don't want to go to a hamfest to save hamfests.  If I go, it is to find cool stuff and see radio friends and enjoy.  If it is an obligation, then it's a job, and that tends to make it a drag.

The paradigm should change.  Buy parts on E-Bay, Digi-Key, Mouser, Marlin P. Jones, etc.  Then build something, and set it up in a low-cost public venue, for people to see and hear.  A cool station at a ham gathering is something to gather around.  Add digital receive processing, cool antenna tricks, etc, and people will  learn from it as well.  Of course it can be a place for pre-arranged exchanges of equipment while we're at it.

But even if only a few people show up at the fest, just get on the air with the stuff, and be a ham.  This hobby is fun.

Good points Bacon. Several touched on the social/human interaction parts, not just chasing bargains. Doing techinical exchanges and showing off stuff is good too, as it generates a more sustainable interest in the hobby.

I'm not into saving fests just to save them. I've long thought there were too many fests in the DC area anyway. Every rinky-dink club seemed to have one, just to pay for their (private) repeater. What a waste. A few, "good", reasonably sized fests through out the year would work just as well, and would likely be attended to the point of being worth while.

Yes, there needs to be a good reason or reasons to attend. I'm just looking for what some of those reasons might be. If there are none (or not enough), then let a particular fest or all fests die. It won't be the end of the world.

Yep, we beat this up pretty well on the air Saturday night with Bacon Frank, the Vortex, etc. Then we thrashed it s'more on Sunday during the day: 'UJR, 'PJP, Jackson Bob and a few others. Along with the good points made by many, I'll add:

 - fewer of us selling, more enjoying the socializing aspects.

2005 spring hosstraders was one of the best I've been to, including the original Deerfield site. I got some great deals on stuff I didn't even know I needed, got rid of some stuff I knew I didn't need, and had a great time eating/drinking with the gang. Wx was nice, and it made for an overall great 'fest for me and others too.

But for the most part, I'm really not looking for much more stuff - I've got more than enough now to move. In fact, too damned much. So when I go now, it's mainly to see old friends and shoot the sh*t, maybe listen to Brent go on about Class E stuff to get free beer. Some of us roam around browsing the boxes under tables, looking for pieces-parts, old manuals, stuff like that. As I said to Frank t'udder night, the 'gotta have everything with toobs in it' phase has passed. I think Frank referred to it as 'full acquisition mode'?

Another side of it for me was taking stuff there time after time, VERY cheaply priced, and hauling it back home repeatedly. Yes, it does bring more on epay, but you then have to deal with shipping and the other crap. I'd prefer to deal in person and see/test the item. So either others prefer ebay or, like me, have enough stuff and just go to hang out with their mates, maybe spy the odd GPR-92 under a table for $5 and so on.

How do I know it was cheaply priced? Because one guy had the nerve to say "I've always wanted one of those, and that's a really good price. But if I was to buy it from you, I'd have to haul it back to my car, and I don't wanna." That's right up there in my book with the fools who stick high prices on their stuff and threaten you with "I can sell it for that on ebay" or similar. So...tell me again why you hauled it here?

I think for the most part, we're getting pickier about how we spend our time and deciding that roaming around in a pack like old dogs is more fun than sitting behind a table all day. Fewer of us selling = less cool stuff to buy = less attraction to some. I'm going to bring some stuff to Hopkinton to get rid of this October, but all free stuff. Odds and ends that have accumulated through deals, stuff that is too good to toss but not worth the hassle of trying to get $1-$5 for. Then I get to lighten the load a bit, and still roam around with the pack of old dogs.

However, I think wx continues to be the biggest enemy of Hosstraders. A few more dollars for gas isn't a big deal, but a bad forecast seems to stop people in their tracks. From what I've seen, attendance isn't down a lot unless the forecast is bad and people wimp out (what would Hosstraders be without a little rain? more FUN). And the fest has more good junk than any fest I've attended.

Yep, Todd, I could never understand how some guys could haul up a big load of absolute junk, pay the fees and sit there all day like a prisoner.  But, I think some guys do that just for the spirit of having a purpose to be there. It takes a certain amount of social skills to wander around without an anchor like that... ;)

But thank goodness guys do that or there wud be no vendors at all. Still, if there were no venders and the same amount of people showed up for HossTraders, I wud probably make it just to hang out. Like many, sometimes I buy nothing, but am always on the lookout for parts to maintain the existing rigs. Vac variables, relays, etc are always needed.

BTW, I am looking for a few used 833A's for my new 4X1 X 833's rig. I have just two and they have holes in the plates from a past audio JJ-mishap. One idles at 20ma and the other at 200ma. Anybody, somebody help me! (Little Richard) Bring them if you have them cheap to sell.

T

One of the "vendors" at a local flee market had a sign that said something like " Please dont tell me that you can buy it cheeper on epay; If you can, why dont you buy it there??  .....  He also had dealings with that guy in CT with the unbilt Greifkit.

The social aspect can be very productive. 

I once say a YL at Rockchester, so you never know what you may miss by not going.        klc






Yes, I am on narcotics.

You just reminded me of something, Tom:

This has come up in the past, and it came up again Sunday when I was talking with 'PJP via LL. He mentioned how, 'back in the day' things were much more like a convention of sorts, less like a flea market. I remembered coming across some old flyers in a box of my junk for the Burlington Amateur Radio Club conference back in the 50s. These were big events, 1-2 days, and involved a host of events. Forums, presentations, dinner, dancing, other ceremonies....the flea market aspect was only one piece of the larger picture. They didn't have a lot of them, either.

Joe says he thinks things will revert back more to this format and I tend to agree. Mainly because those of us who are truly interested will go, even if only to hang out and stuff our faces. The radio social event of the year, and bring along anything you want to get rid of. The milsurplus gang, and the AM crowd especially are a very social bunch, helping out each other with advice, parts, antenna parties, even rigs when needed. Free or very reasonable, money isn't the focus.

I don't think they will replace a Hopkinton or Dayton, but if you look at what we do at the big 'fests, it seems to track pretty well. I know there used to be a group that gathered in NH during the winter for coffee, lunch/dinner, maybe some parts swapping and the occasional talk by someone. Not sure what happened to them?

As far as selling goes for me, it's a means to an end. To get rid of stuff or finance more (or pay my ridiculous property taxes GRRRR). I certainly don't do it to make money, more to raise what is needed for a specific reason. Trading and even giving stuff away is easier and preferrable to me.


Ha! I love that commercial with Little Richard in it. "Help me! Somebody HELP me!" "Mashed Potatoes....Gravy....CRANberry sauce!!"

I might be able to help you out with the big bottles. After I return next week, I'm going to list my Raytheon RA-1000 BC transmitter for sale since I'm moving and won't have time in the foreseeable future to deal with it. It came with *20* 833s, so if it doesn't sell fast or the buyer wants to p&m about price, chances are good I can free some up. All used from what I can tell, mix of brands, willing to test them if someone has a rig we can throw them into. One of the guys said he wanted this rig but hasn't returned my call, so stay tuned....

I used to have a flyer from the Delmarva Radio Club's convention held in the 1930's. It included dinners, dancing, bathing beauty contests, and numerous meetings/forums. No mention of buying or selling. It was held in several hotels in Ocean City, MD. Nothing like have a fest ocean side. Cool.

Todd,

Great on the possibility of acquiring some 833A's!  I'll bet the new owner of the rig will not flinch if he gets 20 or 18 tubes with it.... :D

Tell ya what... if you feel like it, just pick out two of the best looking ones and bring them to HossTraders and I'll buy 'em.  I'm now in the testing mode for this rig and  building up the new WA3KLR designed solid state FET cathode driver for the 833A's.  The 4X1 final works FB and puts out plenty of RF.

As for the flea markets/fests ... what might happen is the same as when there is a saturation of supply - and the demand dries up in the economy. Take the Internet dot.com boom and bust. Or maybe the computer vendors a few years back.  When there is too much competition and fewer customers, few are making ends meet.  The little ones drop out and the big ones consolidate to take over the whole market.

I can foresee much fewer events. The big ones will remain and take up the slack like Dayton, Rochester,NY, Hosstraders, and the ARRL Boxborough Convention types.  The evidence from Gaithersburg and the smaller flea markets starting to fail is ample evidence of this. Even the big ones are hurting in various ways.

Yes, the observation of the 50's flea market being more of a social event is an excellent point. It's coming full circle. The thing for us to do is to simply have as much fun as we can and stress the social aspect of going there. This way if the vendors are sparse we will not be disappointed.

Though, for some reason, at HossTraders, I aways seem to come back with what I was looking for. I make a list of parts and magically they are there. Having a good time is never a question. This is a 100% probability. Is all a matter of attitude. (As The Apeman says)

73,
T

Dudes knew how to have a good time! Variety is the spice of life so some say. 8) Ifin's it's ocean side jtd and exi could be co-chairmen!