The AM Forum

I recall this topic being discussed here several weeks ago.  Well, the Court has announced its decision.

From a Washington Post article:


Court  Decision (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/23/AR2005062300783_pf.html)

I always thought the supreme court was a little more on the ball than the 2 other braches of belt way bandits NOT ANY MORE.

This scam is to grab land and turn it over to a private person to make big bucks.

I'm glad our elected officials and appointed are more concerned with the people of Iraq and every other rat hole on the planet than the tax payers.

My guess is, this also the reason they want to close the sub base.

That is about as smart as moving the White House to Texas

Look at the justices(ouch) that made up the majority!

Can't blame this one on conservatizm!!!

Give it to the government, they know what better to do with it.

Not liberal, not conservative I call it the lobby basXXXX in control of this country.

Two recent decisions thus pretty much give "the government" abolute power.  The medical marijuana decision nullified anything that was left of states rights vs the federal government, and this one nullifies individual property rights over state governments.

City and county governments are ultimately arms of the state government.  I was taught that years ago in my US History class at university.

This is the part that rakes my 'roids:

"The city had argued that the project served a public use within the meaning of the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution because it would increase tax revenues, create jobs and improve the local economy."

Absolute BS. Might look good on paper, but everytime you increase density in some way (more homes, more businesses, etc), you also end up increasing public services like water, fire protection, police, medical, infrastructure, maintenance, etc.

The fact that you can't put a pricetag on it up front doesn't mean it isn't there. I would bet that the necessary upgrades and increased services needed for the project will far outweigh any perceived revenue gained through taxation, for a long time to come. It's about impossible to get them out of that 'tax and spend' mentality, though.

Is there anything at all that can be done to reverse this?

I don't remember anything in the constitution about the government's job to increase money coming into the system. I do remember serve the good of the people.
This serves the good of a couple of Roland's scum bag pals.
The supreme court was too blind to see that.  
The belt way bandits now control the third branch too.

Who is next Irb?

Gee, Maybe we should have a hotel resort built on the boosh family place in Me. And how about that fine Kennedy place.

Sure, it can be overturned at some point. Problem is, you have to get rid of the idiots who voted in favor of it first, and that takes time (stepping down, retirement, death) and the luck of having a president in office (who believes in less government control) to appoint new justices with similar views. Then you have to work around the obstructionists who object because they like that type of judge instead of your appointment, and if they don't have the necessary votes to defeat you in a fair vote, they'll filibuster.

How patient are you?  :roll:

I'm sure we will have total gun control first.

That is a fact Mark!

The people of Iraq are more important than us tax paying , FICA paying pigs

Not that this matters a poot at this point, but I was surprised by O'connor's reply.  I thought she would have voted in favor of the Government.  This is going to have major ramifications down the road for private citizens with nice frontage property on country acres, or waterfront beaches - not to mention the ever expanding small community roads.

Darn revenuers...

"Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has been a key swing vote on many cases before the court, issued a stinging dissent. She argued that cities should not have unlimited authority to uproot families, even if they are provided compensation, simply to accommodate wealthy developers."

God needs to clean house again.

That's very scary since I'm about to move to a new house in a different state... extremely scary...

 

Judging from the comments here, looks like everyone was in shock as well.

What the heck is this country's highest court doing to our rights?
Now greedy developers can come in and buy our property if it can be shown to have a public benefit, i.e. more taxes dollars to the policies.
So the people who make the decision for a public taking have a direct benefit from the results.
Does that strike anyone else as unethical?

Was anyone else looking for a "punch line" as they read this article?
I kept thinking this was a joke.
Sadly, it is not.

Our country is getting more and more away from the traditional values of our forefathers and the US Constitution.
Sorry guys, Irb is right.

I don’t want to get off on a rant here, but what is wrong with our country when today’s heroes are rap stars who make millions extolling the “virtues” of drugs, violence and abuse of women? When the underclass no longer need to work and instead are given privileges and benefits that those who do work do not even have; free education, healthcare, housing, food, transportation, etc. The liberal media elites mock our leaders and soldiers as stupid and their sacrifices as useless. Those who espouse traditional values are mocked as backward or worse – racist?

Something is deeply wrong in this country, and it did not happen overnight. I don’t think we need to worry about Islam; we are destroying this country very well ourselves.

Perhaps this decision will be a wake up call for fellow citizens to take up the cause and return American to Americans.

Frank says that "God needs to clean house again." and I do agree those days are right down the road.
Only this time it may not be water, but the atom.

.

This leaves me feeling sorta sorry for Irb... right about now I'm expecting his town to be offering him $1000 an acre for his unimproved land... and could the Tron be next?

(http://www.amwindow.org/pix/jpg/w2vjz.jpg)

What I'd like to know is how eminent domain in this particular case benefits me as a member of the public. I'm 25 miles away from New London.   Apparently there's no demarcation line.  I guess the taking for personal property for tax revenue here on the east coast benefits those on the west coast.  

And on another subject close to home,  I just heard Pfizer is going to outsource some of their R&D to India.

Well comrades those property owners should feel proud to have the privilege of aiding the collective.  Upon their backs the great socialist state rises to new heights.  Comrade Lenin would be proud of our new-found enlightened policies.

Wait a minute.  I thought we won the Cold War.  Seems we have been beaten by our own hand.  

Property rights are essential to a free state.  It's one of the benchmarks you can judge a nation's commitment to liberty by.  They are all but gone in this nation.  If the government can take it from you,  you don't own it.  They do!

Nah AMD...

It's still "equal justice under the law" but... WITH IN YOUR CLASS...

Well the fact is they, the developers need to pay market value, but too often such land is NOT replaceable with $s. And we all should have a right to say no; otherwise those with the deep pockets control the game.

So if Donald Trump decides my little coastal enclave is a prime spot for a new casino, he can now do it. After all, think of all the tax dollars that casino will bring in vs. my little radio ranch. Sorry, that’s just wrong.

I am astounded and angered by this, from a court which I felt was fair and even somewhat conservative.

The Fifth Amendment provides that private property may only be taken for public use if just compensation is paid. Seizing land for commercial development on the behalf of developers when the state stand to gain sizable compensation through taxation of such a business is not in this citizen’s opinion “public use”.

Anyone care to speculate the coruption this will breed as deep pocketed developers pay off the politicans to take said land???????

.

.

This crap has been going on here in Niagara Falls, Ont for the last 20 years..One notable Land Developer (Marine Land and Game Farm) bought all the property around his location...Except one old guy refused too sell no matter what price...So about 75 feet from his property there is now a 250 foot man made Mountain which now is used for the drop for a roller coaster...The city also told all the people living along a noted hi-way too the entrance too the city,  that they had a year too move out...Well all the houses were bulldozed down and now there are trees and a sign which says Welcome too City of Niagara Falls...

I'm as horrified as the next person about this thing.  I can see where the argument is going . . .somebody is going to blame it on the damn liberals.  Everybody knows that progressive people spend a lot of time plotting how to side with developers on land grabs.  If only we could get a bunch of pro-business, conservative judges on the bench we wouldn't have to worry about the robber barrons taking property. . . sure thing.   Wake up.

Ed

It has little to do with politics and a great deal to do with greed.
And greed is on both sides of the political fence, as you well know.


... -.-

You don't own your property anyway.  The state/county/city owns it, and you pay "rent" in the form of property tax.  In the case of a rental home, if you don't pay your rent, your landlord will eventually have you evicted.  If you "own" the property and don't pay your rent (property tax), your landlord (the city or county) will eventually have you evicted.

The landlord may also evict his tenants and even demolish the dwelling if he decides to use his property for something else besides rental housing.  That is exactly what is going down in CT.  The landlord (the city) decided on other uses for its property.

Exactly.  When you buy property or build you are just paying for the right to rent that real estate from the government.  Folks don't like hearing that but unless you have a land patent you own nothing.

AH yes....our wonderful government.......
a government of the government, by the government, for the government, it has nothing to do with the people any more....sad.

"It has little to do with politics and a great deal to do with greed."

On this point I am in total agreement with George, Bruce, et al. If that isn't a demonstration of bipartisan opinion I have no idea what is. This is just not right. This treats ones home and property as chattels of a state heavily influenced by interests that don't appear to represent the people it is chartered to serve. I can see the need for jobs but you cannot convince me there aren't alternatives.



. . .but there's plenty of other things the Libs are dead wrong about. . .  don't give up the sympathy mongering program . . .


-ap

Good point Frank! Kennybunkport<sp> and the Kennedy compound in Hyannis MA would make great waterfront resorts!  :badgrin:  :badgrin:

now where did I put the Donald's phone number...  :roll:

I just heard about this ruling. disgusting..

Yes, "Land Rent", it is what property taxes really are. However, under the "contract" you've had control over "your" property, until zoning
crept in. Now, you'll get tossed out by a bill gates money addict (yes a disease) to increase revenue to a town. and you will NOT be paid the
value of your property in its "developed" state. Glad the dems and
the gops are in line here - not that it will do any good,, sigh....

Good Day Everyone,

 Art yer right it doesn't have anything to do with Politicks, actually, The Leaders down there on the Ant Hill are so corrupt along with the rest of this that it defies any coherent logic.

 Somewhere down the pages here someone brought in the part in the Founding Papers of this Country that describes actions to be taken when attrocities such as this take place, ie. Actions that are to be Taken.

 It's only Paper, it comes from trees, and look what the Blood Skulls do to each other to secure it.

 USA Today.

Government has become predatory.  Scary.  It's time to fight these bastards back, legally of course unless that fails then pull out the stops..

I run here from USSR, now USSR is coming here, slowly changing a political system...  :evil:

Let's send all these Bastards to Iraq so they can be free too.
50 years ago the state robbed 1/2 our beach and gave it to the state park.
Nothing new just crooks like shit float to the top.
At least the crook Roland in in jail but the real crook O'Neil remains free.

RKW your avatar has nice interface units hope the connectors are properly mounted.

I thought it is a heatsink, as labeled...

One thing i know is . Th ebeltway bandits are going to need a lot more jails if they don't get their heads out of their butts.  fc

They use MIL-STD backshells. They're built to take a lickin'.

Gee I thought they might be system one built for clean release and a good pulse load

let me explain it to y'all...

If ur not a member of the local "party comittee" or a member of the local "party" in your town (be it Dem, Repub, Cons, Lib or whatever) then you are abrogating your opportunity to effect anything.

If you are not at town board meetings, planning board meetings, same deal.

This thing works very simply. MOST (not all) of the people who are part of these things (local gov and party) are imho schmucks who get off on control and telling other people what to do, and/or have nothing better to do with their time on earth than participate in this sort of incestuous activity (politics). BUT, these are the very people who "rise through the ranks" and end up running the damn country, the state, and your county & city/town. Eh?

Ok, so they're not on AM, they're not out playin golf or whatever, buildin stuff, or anything like that... but these are the people who determine the ultimate shape of your life.

You'd rather be in 75 AM, they'd rather meet, plot and pass laws... they get off on that.

Either show up and kick some butt, or they will kick yours eventually.
And, apparently they are. Mine too.

Don't post here, write letters to ur papers and to them. Show up. Speak. The time for having fear or trusting others has long past... do nothing and nothing will happen.

"... the price of freedom is eternal vigilance..." Patrick Henry

       _-_-bear


PS. the really, really scary part is that VJZ isn't really too far off the mark in many respects about all this.

For years, long prior to this latest  supreme court decision, local governments have been robbing people of their property under drug seizure laws.  If you are stopped by police, especially if you are from out of state, and they happen to discover that you are carrying a  large amount of cash, they may seize the cash on "suspicion" that it is drug money - even if there is not one shred of evidence that the money is related to illegal drugs.

Even if you are never charged with any drug violation, or if you are acquitted of any charges, there is no guarantee that you will get your money back.  In many cases it takes court action to force the local authorities to return the money, and lawyers may end up with 50% of it, even if it is returned.

Louisiana was notorious for seizing cash from travellers along Interstate 10, to the point that people were advised against travelling through that state if at all possible.

People have had all their money seized at airports merely for walking up to the airline counter and attempting to purchase an airline ticket by paying cash.

I recall one case in the news a few years ago about an elderly woman whose home was seized because her teenage grandson was caught selling drugs from the doorstep, unbeknownst to her.

This court decision merely gives local governments one more avenue for the "legal" theft of people's property.

I'm with Bear on this one, I 'm not much liked in any of the local Scraps going on, matter of fact the last one I entered I stood up for the Local retired folks in my area for the Forced accusition of monies for Proposed water lines and Tap in fees, Look these folks are on fixed incomes for crying out loud let's be Honest here...an they went on an on about Upgrading the community and bettering the water supply etc. Da, money doesn't grow on trees...

He's Right and He should lead as much as an example in his area too, I hope he does. I do. I read those articles in the news papers Chit, Doesn't do any good...Get down to your local Municiple Building and sit in...Good Job Bear...

Look on the bright side.  This Supreme Court ruling will clear the way for development of new landmark sites such as this one now being proposed in Weare, New Hampshire.

http://www.freestarmedia.com/hotellostliberty2.html


 ;)


Sam  /  KS2AM

screwem,  take it - great post!

My wife just told me about that story/link....

Payback's a bitch isn't it!!!  :badgrin:  :badgrin:

http://cagle.com/news/EminentDomain/

Great Avatar Sam. "I'M TRYING TO LISTEN TO THE F**KING SONG!"

Well thanks George. I was just trying to capture the spirit of the thing.


 8)


Sam  /  KS2AM

 "My hallergies to dees f**king fans has returned"

"Give me a grape and an orange,
and none of that stinkin' root beer."

http://www.slap-shot.com/HanRoot.mp3

Be glad you don't live in Oregon.  Oregonians passed prop 37 thinking they were protecting themselves when in fact they were handing the power of planning to developers.  Prop 37 says if the government passes any law that reduces the value of a property the government has to pay the owners and it's retroactive.  Sound good  doesn't it?  But what this means is that if you are in an area zoned residential or agricultural or has a minimum lot size or has any use restriction whatsoever and the guy next to you wants to do something else like put in big hotel, a tannery, 2000 condos, a race track, you name it, the government has to change the zoning or pay the guy the difference between the proposed use and the current use.  Remember this is retroactive, so it could have been the way it is for a long time but if your neighbor gets a visit from a developer and likes the money the developer is waving around,  you're screwed.   The cities and counties don't have the money to pay so your beautiful day in the neighborhood is over.

The way to look at this is in Oregon the developers get to do what they want with or without having the local planning commission in their pockets.  

Developers rule.  I think I'm going to go become a developer.  How do I do that?

Jon

Good Day Everyone,

 Pretty Grimm outlook on things here, I am very concerned about this situation and the problem with "Being Told No", More and more we're seeing this around here in Pittsburgh and there has been some very public Outrages and personal Law Suits outcroping from moves such as these.

 It's funny in my mind Nobody really Owns anything, Actually, we are here for a period of time and then Gone, The Scope of " We " Reality has given way to "Me" and the ever increasing Intraversion has taken a great hold on Society here, as well i have been noticing ever increasing Interaction problems people are having even at the level of simple Childrens League Sporting events.

 I know what has caused this and it's growing in quantity every day, and the "Feel Good" syndrome inacted daily aided inpart to this problem, and as such ""No" is Not in the Vocabulary any more, It is Not acceptable, and resources are acted on, and the public good is given way for personal interest.

Power Play.

You are right.  Although there is probably no-one who advocates private property more than myself, some things are destined to outlast us.  We are given stewardship of non-consumable property while we are here, but I feel some obligation to make sure it falls into good hands when I am gone.

Nothing pisses me off more than for someone to adamantly hold onto things they own, showing no interest in letting it go for any price, then later hearing that they ended up hauling it to the dump.

Equally disturbing is when someone dies, the people handling the estate haul off a valuable life-long collection of the departed's belongings to the dump.  I have  heard that story retold dozens of times regarding historic ham radio collections in particular, often because other people in the ham's family HATED amateur radio.  

I remember once seeing a complete collection of QST's in leatherback binders, dating from the early 20's thru the 60's, along with collections of RADIO and other pre-WW2 radio publications, that had been stored in a warehouse after the owner died.  They had been placed in plastic garbage bags.  The warehouse had a leaky roof.  Somehow water got into the garbage bags, and the entire collection composted there and was reduced to solid cubes of paper pulp.  The slick coating on the pages, once wet, turned into glue and it was impossible to separate the pages.  The story goes that the OT took extreme pride in his collection of radio books and magazines, but his wife disliked radio and his pinhead son-in-law took all his radio stuff to the warehouse immediately after he died.  He later put it all up for sale, but nearly all the magazines and a large portion of the other stuff was ruined from water damage.

It almost seems in some cases that when the person dies, his wife immediately calls for someone to come and dispose of the radio collection, and once  all the radio stuff is safely gone from the house, she then calls the undertaker to come and remove the body and prepare for the funeral.

There was a guy in NJ who had dozens of pictures of active AM ham's shacks. He visited a whole lot of stations in the area. Unfortunately, he passed away around 1991. All that stuff just vaporized almost instantly.

Hmmm... odd this water thing.

The local "Town Supervisor" here has been trying to ram a "water district" down our throats for about two years. He's tried almost every dirty trick in the books. He claims there's a "health emergency" that is the reason he absolutely has to do this... there is no health emergency. There are some water problems, but the Hamlet here has been around since Colonial times with the same water as now... not many more people either. No one has died yet.

But nearby, they rammed through a water district and there was a story in the paper that owners of EMPTY LAND were being charged a grand a year for water they are not using!! Nice, eh?

And, if you don't pay, what will they do? Take ur land.

They estimate it will take 3 Million dollars for this water thing, and they have done no serious studies of groundwater availability etc... it's fairly obvious that a few people will benefit from the water lines via undeveloped land holdings along a major roadway/corridor... the smell of stink rises.

So far they've been stopped by a series of lawsuiits...

BUT, it's like the local C'ment plant that wanted to burn toxic waste in the kiln. They were relentless. They were rebuffed countless times... but kept coming back. Finally they got it done, people just got tired of fighting them year after year. Like friggin ants they are. No, not ants, Borg.

BTW, the C'ment plant is about 1,000 yards from the Elementary School and the High School. Nice.

What bugs me is that they are managing to push through the SAME STUFF all over the country. Like the "junk car ordinances". You can't keep cars. Why? Do we really need to ship all of our scrap to China? How come every town has the same law?

And the stupid "tower laws"!! How come every town seems to have the same damn tower laws???

In the words of George Harrison: "...all through the day I. me, mine, I me mine..."

  <</rant>>

There has to be some kind collusion amongst local governments nationwide.  It would be an unlikely coincidence that nearly identical laws, regulations and ordinances are popping in towns all over the country at about the same time.

Another example:  lately I have been carded at several different  localities when I buy beer, even though I am 63 years old.  Not too long ago, during a trip to Ohio, I ran into the SAME SHIT.  Now is that  a mere coincidence?

Don...

Their just getting you prepared emotionally for your identity chip... or the mark of the beast... I always get the two confused...

One thing i've always admired about politicians and Virsuses, they tend to Travel after Reeking their Havoc.

Down through the years I've watched municipalities in my area here bring in outside Fresh meat, with the premise of "Fresh Ideas" only to find out the opposite and the only thing that's fresh is the Face. Oh Well.

Such is the Nature of that Beast, Well it worked here, it'll Work there.

Now that all you guys have had a good P&M with this one another case of this cropped up in our fine state.
My OM reminded me that our fine president pulled this when the Texas Rangers need a new field.  Gee and now he could select 2 Supreme Court Judges to relect his upstanding views.