The AM Forum

USE IT OR LOSE IT!!!

I am referring to the paucity of QSOs, here in the NE USA, especially on 75m.

Similarly, the activity on this forum has really reduced substantially from years past, although
that can not be attributed to "band conditions".

Just one example, I hear 30+ stations check into the "Lonely Guys" net, and most are
not heard from after the net or any other time... what's up with that??

Lately, a regularly meeting SSB group has camped at 3875 every evening...
...a decade ago that would have never happened.

The excuse of avoiding certain types of QSO topics, that is thin. Frankly, that is why
we have VFOs... use another frequency, call CQ, make a sked!

Yes, band conditions daytime are pretty pathetic. Not early AM, and not evenings/nights.
AND, the bands will still support relatively local, <100miles, QSOs most days...

Yes, there has been attrition... that still doesn't really explain the lack of verve and
desire to just get on the air. To quote BB King here, "...the thrill is gone..."? Is it really?

Now, right here in this forum, most likely the folks who will post up on this topic, those are
the same folks who are posting in general. (which is fine)  Where are the others, where are the lurkers??

Why aren't they posting?
Why aren't they on the air??

URGE your fellow hams to GET ON THE AIR!!

USE IT OR LOSE IT!!

(...this has been a public service message from WBear2GCR, smAlbany, hippity hippity hop)

I quit post8ng I don't feel welcome.

N8QPC

Gabba gabba, we accept you, we accept you, one of us!

Guess that is up to you... and how you present yourself in writing...

My post was mostly about getting on the air.

Don?t know brother, no shortage of people on 3885 AM around here. And 7290 been popular. Got some friends that we get together on Saturdays on 7296 USB with all of us running old military SSB rigs and have had people come on and complain about us interfering with AM activity, also do old 850 Hz teletype on 7087 and no shortage of people who transmit digital right on top of us. Looking at twenty meters looks like there are groups and nets that have every three KHz staked out as their own domain. Last couple years been on seventeen meters a lot being that?s about the only place where you can go and no one gets offend.
If anything, maybe its not that people don?t want to operate but don?t want to put up with being told that the XYZ Net or what ever is here and go away and don?t interfere with our operation.
Its only my opinion, and that?s all but I always thought of seventy-five-meter AM as being a somewhat ?rough and tumble? place with lots of high-power stations that will often make long drawn-out transmissions as to discourage anyone who is not part of the club from taking part. Done lots of AM on forty and one sixty, lots of SSB and now days vintage wide shift teletype but I just don?t feel 3885 is an inviting place. Oddly have done several low power QSO on 3885 playing around with low power WW2 AM stuff but that?s always during the daytime.
So maybe if its not fun anymore people stop doing it? Maybe the same with posting stuff around here?

  Around here (East Coast) 3873 and 3885 are very active pretty much every evening. I will admit that I don't get on nearly as often as I should, mostly because it always seems that I've got other stuff going on during peak operating hours. The Lonely Guys is a great net, but I haven't made an appearance there for a couple of years, only because my Saturday morning schedule changed when I retired, and I'm usually out running errands at that time. I'm on the AM Carrier net pretty much every Sunday morning.
  I try to post here somewhat often. While I'm certainly not among the more knowledgeable members of the forum, if by asking a question I can initiate some dialogue that might educate or inspire, I'm happy to contribute when I can. I've only been into AM since 2018, but this forum has been a priceless resource.

Apparently activity on 75 meters dries up after 6 pm eastern, because I've gotten on and called cq repeatedly several times here and there over the winter and rarely get a response. And to add, tuning around I've been hearing more activity on 160 and 40 than 75 most evenings. Part of that I almost certainly have to contribute to a particular few 1 and 2-landers that like to go on and on about a particular set of topics over and over and that also start total war against any sideband station that dare wander within 10 khz of them. It tends to drive people away, especially when their own signals wipe out at least 10 khz or more on either side of 3885 or whatever frequency they set up camp on.

I've been off the air because the dipole wire broke. I would also like to try VHF and UHF with a discone, but someone has to climb the tower and put it up. I am no longer fit for that work. That is why I am not on the air.

I'll try to stop by here more often.

Don't know why my punctuation gets all wonky! Must be something I did, go figure. Tend to write in a word document then cut in past on the composition window in the browser. This was written in the browser directly.
Wanted to try the modify function! and comment that I'm sixty five but still can do some antenna work, think Patrick can too. The best way to get more activity on the bands is to get out there and get on the bands.

Long winded paragraphs and sentences can get boring and readers lose interest.
Your second sentence is 4 lines long.

EXAMPLE - didn't correct some of the grammar. For many, the sentence breakup into similar paragraphs can make it easier to read and more interesting.

In Bear's initial post, all of his points stand out due to the way he structured the text. Easy to read, easy to follow, and no points are lost in the delivery.


A quote from an unknown source: "rambling text sucks, difficult to follow, long rambling paragraphs also suck, if you lose your reading spot for whatever reason, you generally have to go back and start at the beginning"

Those are very good points, Pete, and that simple attention to detail makes  the forum much more pleasurable and valuable to all members.  It is so much easier to locate something you read previously if the post is organized in a few paragraphs. 

And as my English professor said quite often, "run-on sentences often accidentally result in "dangling participles", which are in bad form indeed.  One should never be seen with his participle dangling out. 

Is it remotely possible that the inability to modify is caused because the modifier is in search of a word to modify?  Maybe the Grammar Police AI is lurking behind the scenes on AMfone.  Just thinking out loud....

A Roman Centurion walks up to the bar and says, "I'll have a martinus."
"Martinus?" the bartender asks, "Don't you mean martini?"
The Centurion replies, "If I'd wanted more than one, I would have ordered more than one!"
(Latin grammar joke)

Romanes eunt domus

Romani ite domum

Martinus >> Roman god of war &  Martini

(https://greekgodsandgoddesses.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/mars.jpg)(https://www.artofdrink.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/vodka-martini-recipe-735x1148.jpg)

Cool, so that?s how it is. Bad Grammar and long winded sentences. Like being back in fifth grade again. Imagine I am somewhere between a C minus or D pulse?

   When passing judgment on someone, a lot depends on the aspirations, goals, and possibly pretenses of the person being judged. Consider our experiences here on AM amateur radio: if someone on frequency asks the familiar question, "how's my audio?" and that person is running a stock ART-13, he should be entirely satisfied with a "your audio is communications quality" reply. That stock rig is doing exactly what it was designed to do, and the operator is making no pretense about having high-fidelity audio. On the other hand, if the operator asks that same question after proudly announcing that he's running a converted broadcast transmitter with a rack of expensive studio audio gear, he'll be judged by an entirely different set of standards.
   Grammatical judgments can be like that, too. During a fortunately brief stint in IT, in big office buildings, I had to communicate regularly with executive types via Microsoft Outlook. Now, I'm not a grammar major, just a guy who spends lots of time both reading and writing and has an inordinate love of the English language, yet I was stunned by the grammatical ineptitude of so many of those supposedly "educated" suit-wearing office-dwellers. These guys had Master's Degrees in Business Administration but wrote like grade-school kids! I judged them harshly, and they deserved it; those with less lofty aspirations I will judge less harshly.

From my experience, it's an observation and opinion. How one chooses to convey their thoughts in print is all up to them.

WA2CWA said:
Ok, I'll bite. Beef jerky time? ;)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnHBrocELP4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnHBrocELP4)

Let me get back to the point about 3875, the ack of activity and/or the dreaded evil sidewinders taking "our" frequency. Several decades ago, 3885 was the AM frequency and little or no AM was heard on 3875, with the exception of Uncle Willy on Sunday afternoons. Things change over time. We all have VFOs. There are tons of empty frequencies on 80/75 meters at night. No need to worry about just one.

   The bottom line is that Bear's point is a good one: keeping the frequencies active is crucial. As with many hobby activities, it's easy to get caught up in cogitating about the hobby and talking about the hobby and working on all the associated hardware and such, but then neglecting to actually employ all that nifty hardware. The toys themselves become the hobby. I can think of one local who builds some truly outstanding rigs, obviously at considerable expense in time and funds, but is very rarely heard on the air. I'm as guilty as anyone; I find myself expending great amounts of time planning new projects, working on current ones, and acquiring parts for them all, but then when prime operating time comes around, I'm busy doing something else.

Get out there and get active Bro! lots of other places to do AM besides 3885, you got 7290, 7160 and 1885 and always people who are happy to talk there. I have been working on a couple SCR-284 radios and tend to keep them on 3885 and last night when I was in the shop there were several stations on. Already stated my feelings about eighty meters so will say again that if it ant fun why do it, holds true for radio and online. But a lot of satisfaction can be gained from doing a QSO over what you spend so much time on.

From what I remember, there's been a group meeting on 3875 using SSB since the 70's. I recall a nine land amateur who use to drive to a large parking lot, string up an antenna, and participate "fixed mobile" in the 3875 SSB activities.

As far as operating AM on the bands, don't restrict yourself to one defined frequency. You can operate AM (AM is a phone mode) anywhere your license allows you to operate the phone mode. It makes no sense to define one frequency and lock yourself in a pen.

The big knob on the receiver allows you to tune around the band. The big knob on the transmitter or VFO allows you to move your transmitted frequency around.

Although the notation of "calling CQ" in any mode seems to have gone out of vogue in the 21st century, it still works quite well for getting contacts.

I've noticed, especially on 75 meter AM, instead of CQ, that some amateurs now just key the transmitter and randomly engage in mindless rambling for "x" minutes and then drop the carrier to see who they have sucked in.

   While I'm a diehard traditionalist in many regards, I'm cool with this. Some might argue that it flirts with "broadcasting," which is clearly illegal, but the difference in this case is one of intent. Whether you call CQ over and over for sixty seconds or pass the same amount of time expounding on a subject that might incite conversation, your goal is essentially the same. The latter approach is both a bit more creative and a bit less impersonal. Of course, if everyone were to replace the more conventional CQ method with this improvisational tactic, those operators who might desire to stand out in the crowd would then be forced to revert to the traditional approach.

It isn't flirting, it is "one-way broadcasting" and rambling on for a bunch of minutes, under the existing rules, it is considered illegal. "Intent" isn't a valid reason or excuse. Fortunately, most of this stuff hangs in the "ghetto" and many of us now operate AM in other parts of the 80/75 meter band and, of course, other bands entirely.

"Birds of a feather flock together" is sometimes a reasonable activities tag for the 75 meter AM ghetto.

Definitions are important. Broadcast transmissions end with no expectation of a response from another station and are intended as unidirectional communications. Any transmission which ends with the anticipation or expectation of a response is not broadcasting.

   Intent is not only a valid consideration, it's crucial in a great number of concerns, both legal and moral. Legal cases, both civil and criminal, very often hinge entirely and completely upon that word. In a libel case, for example, where a media figure is accused of libeling, say, a political figure, the prosecution is most often obliged to prove malicious intent. Legal adjudication throughout our history has frequently not only considered "intent," but has in fact hinged entirely upon it. That little word, in jurisprudence, is our buffer against the "letter of the law."
   Calling CQ is no less "broadcasting" than the brief (and obviously they should be reasonably brief) improvisational dissertations we're discussing, since the intent (there's that word again) is entirely the same. If the operator ignored all responses and simply continued either calling CQ in the traditional way, or continued his one-way exposition, it would be broadcasting, but I have yet to hear anyone do that. I suspect you'd be hard-pressed to find any language in Part 97 that clearly defines exactly what an operator should say to incite conversation, but to accomplish what would appear to be your "intent," I suggest the FCC add something like this:
   "It is important for all amateurs to remember that amateur radio is very serious business, and at no point whatsoever should an amateur's activities give the overt appearance of being enjoyable, lighthearted, or in any way entertaining. The responsible amateur will enter his operating facility with a stern, business-like attitude, proceed to engage in stern, no-nonsense communications and, when leaving the operating facility, maintain a stern visage so as not to inadvertently give the impression to others that any of his preceding activities were enjoyable."
   Responsible operators, to sufficiently differentiate themselves from the "ghetto" operators, might want to insert steel-wool pads into their under-garments, spread a few thumbtacks on their favorite operating chairs, and perhaps suck on a lemon while operating. Remember, there's nothing funny about amateur radio. ;D

Certainly definitions are indeed important, but Rules and Regs are what counts first.  97.111 and 97.113 seem to be pertinent.  The description in 97.111 (b) (1) would seem to preclude some of the long buzzardly self indulgent one-way transmissions that I have heard. The Rule uses the word "brief".  It takes quite a leap of imagination to conclude otherwise.  And, not that SWLing is as popular as it was in decades gone by, it makes Amateur Radio seem trivial and inane.
The discussion is probably moot as we don't seem to have an FCC that is concerned with much except the most egregious violations, and even the ARRL's much vaunted Volunteer Monitor service hasn't posted an update in close to a year and a half.  
73 de Norm W1ITT

   Yes, "brief" would be the operative word, rather than specifically addressing content; assuming of course that the content was not profane or needlessly vulgar.

Man, you all are some smart people. Think my IQ may have gone up a point or two just reading this stuff! As far as the 75 Meter AM Ghetto stuff goes just got to drag the funk out "Don't you know that its true that for me and for you the world is a ghetto".
Now just need to tie in Cisco Kid and my life will be complete.

"The Cisco Kid" was Track 1 of the Album, "The World is a Ghetto"
followed by Track 2, "Where Was You At" (person who titled this song and track knew his "English"  ::) )
and Track 5 was "The World is a Ghetto".

One of the things that I've noticed over the last several years in the AM Ghetto is amateurs who aspire to be like "talk show broadcasters" and seem to actively solicit a listening audience. They obviously seem to desire the fame and notoriety at the expense of the amateur radio hobby.

You Da Man! Was wondering how many would get the reference.

It came to mind when I was typing the earlier response, a line lyric from another song:
"Come on, feet, start moving"
In 1968/69 there wasn't club in Jersey that had a rock band that didn't sing and play this song at least several times during the activities. It was a great dance tune if you knew how to dance to it and impress the women.

And, the singer had a connection to your reference.

   I won't entirely disagree with that, but the "at the expense of the amateur radio hobby" thing, not so much. One could likewise make the case that contesting (what the League calls "radio sport") harms the hobby. Likewise for FT8, WebSDR's, DX spotting websites, and even ready-made "plastic" radios (real hams build their own stuff, don't they?). Those amateurs of the "the amateur is progressive" school of thought, mostly SSB'ers, have always felt that our insistence on using our antiquated AM harms the hobby.
   Are those guys whose overriding ambition is to hit the top of the contest scores not also seeking fame and notoriety? Does what they do contribute in a positive way to the hobby? I see little difference between those guys and the guys who try to take their audio beyond communications audio; both are trying to stand out in the crowd. They aren't soliciting a listening audience; they're soliciting participants in the conversation.
   Honesty, if I were not a ham, and happened to tune my receiver to 75 meters and heard two distinct groups in QSO, one in which the operators had great sounding audio, attempted to speak well (as a broadcaster might), and the conversation was lively and engaging; while in the other QSO the operators sounded and spoke like air traffic controllers, with pinched audio and clipped, terse sentences, the former would be vastly more likely to motivate me to get my ham license.

Geez. Just call CQ. It ain't that hard.

THE PROBLEM is that here, in this forum, there are a handful out of HUNDREDS of actual
members (I expect so) that have posted in this thread...

...same issue on-the-air.

And, no, imho, there is marginal activity and it has been going down, not up...

                _-_-

Another thing to consider is that activity in general on 80/75 meters is far less than it was 20 years ago and even more so compared to 30 years ago. Many AMers wouldn't even bother to get on the air until after midnight back in the 80s to avoid intense QRM.

Looking the overall list of members from, I guess, day 1: 3090.
Of those, 1280 have posted 1 time or more.
Of those 1280, there were 210 that only post 1 time.
So, with the given numbers, 1890 members have never post throughout the time from when they signed up.

Don't really know what all that means much less really care.

Probably: some lost interest, some moved on, some are dead, some were drive buys, some just post in For Sale and Wanted, some don't like to put stuff in print, some are shy, some think big brother is watching, and probably a bunch of other reasons why they have never post.

I've noticed even from my site, people set up a profile for whatever reason, but never participate in any activity (maybe they think they will get a free gift if they sign up :D )

As pointed out, 75 meter AM activity has really dropped from 80's, 90's and into the early 2000's.
Unfortunately a lot of the dye-in-the wool AM operators that were around for decades have passed on leaving a definite void in overall, and especially late night AM activity. If you weren't around back then, you missed a lot.

Bear mentioned AM nets and he's correct. There are a number of participants in these nets and after the net closes, these participants disappear until the next net.

There are a number of weekly and monthly AM nets with some of the most boring dialog that one can imagine.  I can't imagine participating in maybe a 2 hour net and getting to transmit twice and listen to participants talk about, "washing the dog", "washing windows", "finding and picking up 1/8 inch steel balls that fell on the basement floor", "smartphone takes pictures sideways", etc.

Maybe, rather the diddling with the conventional AM mode, the smart guys should apply their efforts into bringing high quality digital AM mode into the amateur mainstream.

It's not just AM activity that's declining.  I enjoy DXing on 160 and 80m SSB and CW.  It generally takes a big antenna and QRO to achieve consistent results.  In the last decade the number of "tall ship" stations has dwindled and the DX windows are quite underpopulated even though the band is open.  The ARRL SSB DX contest a week or so ago showed scant activity in the 80m DX watering holes.  Just a few years ago there was a seemingly endless supply of European stations to troll through.  As activity breeds more activity, lack of action feeds on itself.  I suspect that many of the "tall ship" guys have just gotten old and died or were unable to get the aerial back up after it came down.  And I suspect it's the same with AM.  We hear the IC7300s on end-fed half wave antennas strung out to the apple tree but few of the big guys show up running good power and antennas in the stratosphere.
It seems that many hams, for whatever reason, are happy to plink along with low power FT8 and call it a day.  Regardless of other band activity, that segment most always sees activity.  To each his own, if it makes him happy.  But Saturday night on 75m is a far cry from the days past when you needed a reservation to get on the band.  It would be fun if one evening a week the tall ships could get on the air and boil the ionosphere for a while.  But we'd never agree on which night to choose.
73 de Norm W1ITT

   I surely did miss a lot. I didn't become a licensed amateur until 1993, and didn't get into AM until 2018. A lot of good water had long gone under the bridge by then.
   Nets are great for encouraging people to get on the air, but they're quick energy...not long lasting...like burning pine in your wood stove or drinking sugary energy drinks; they provide little long-term nutrition.
   Net organizers face a bit of a conundrum; without a prearranged topic the content is mostly stream-of-consciousness rambling, but prearranged topics must be uncontroversial and avoid being potentially offensive. Choosing current politics as a net topic would probably attract some action, but it doesn't 't require much imagination to visualize the shoe-polish show that would result.
   Encouraging technical innovation...high quality "digital" AM...could be promising, but so far, unfortunately, SDR's; Class-E rigs; and modern solid state rigs like the K7DYY have yet to inspire increased activity. The Class-E portion of this forum, in fact, has been disappointingly quiet.
   This ennui that afflicts AM, of course, plagues all of amateur radio, and I don't know what will change it. Our hobby is a great one, but it's hard to compete with today's short attention spans, video gaming, cell phones, YouTube videos, and reality tv.

   It's not just HF; the VHF/UHF bands are growing quiet, too. I used to participate in VHF/UHF contests back in the 90's, and although I've largely lost interest, when I listen in on those events I don't hear nearly as much activity these days.

It seems the majority of  the VHF/UHF activity for the last several years has been mainly on FT8 even when there are good band openings to support SSB and CW.

Either the current class of  amateurs are now extremely lazy (don't have to talk just look at a screen) or they don't have the active amateur radio spirit of their predecessors.

Give me an IC-7300 or equivalent and a roll of wire and I'm ready to burn up the airwaves  ;D

   Yes, when six meters opens up, a look at the activity on dxmaps.com reveals that almost all of the contacts displayed are via FT-8. It's still a good indicator to phone and CW ops as to where the signals are going, but it's disappointing.
   I don't know much about FT-8 (and I'd prefer to keep it that way) but from what I understand, it can be at least partially automated, so that the operator can set up his computer to do his "DX'ing" for him, and go do something else while working toward DXCC.

In Catholic High School, the cafeteria motto was "Fidem Scit".

As far as other modes popping up 'on top of' an AM QSO in progress, timeless advice has been offered here, such as "turn up the wick", and "strap". 

If the others are habitually there first, then the VFO is the right thing to use. It's musical chairs or cake-walk.
With many SDR today having a spectrum display it ought be very easy to find an AM signal wherever it is.

I always seem to pick a fun time to return....  :D

What's the saying? Everything that is old is new again? We had this same discussion a decade or two back. The only difference now is that there are fewer of us with respect to AM or other 'traditional' modes. The bands are indeed growing quiet.

As Steve said - when in doubt, call CQ! Activity begets activity. Problem here is, as in the past, there are always a few 'spark plugs' who regularly operate and many, many more 'followers' who wait for others to do the work. I recall clearly some years back one of the regular members here saying 'I'm not very good at calling CQ, I'd just rather wait and let you guys get things going then I'll join in'. Translation: you guys get the party going so I can have fun at my leisure/whenever I feel like turning on the radio. Nets (aka Directed Roundtables) are a perfect example of this.

Pete's points are very good also. And sadly, his references to newer modes point right back to my previous example. Same thing happens in contests - a few AMers complaining about rude contesters, but *few* AMers on the air most days to even light up much spectrum. Our lives, family obligations, work, etc change along the way as well, all affecting our available free time.

I won't even get into the imaginary AM-operating-window nonsense.

So yes - we're aging out numbers-wise, but overall it's more a case of the same old apathy. The ones who like being on the air regularly are, the ones who like being online are, and the song remains the same - there's just less music.

A BIG issue nobody wants to talk about is noise.

I got into AM where I had an s1 to s3 noise level on 75/80 and slightly higher on 160. 

Fast forward getting in a wreck and having to move out of the country and my lowest noise level was 30 over 9.  Wall wart switchers and solar pretty much destroyed operating anything other than modes like FT8 and to a lesser extent SSB.

So, I just stopped operating for about 5 years.  Couldn't operate what and how I wanted, I just built stuff and put it on the shelf.

Now I'm back where the noise level is reasonable (s7 or so, but I digress).... So I'm setting a station up for am and ssb.

"If you can't hear em, you can't work em", is still real.  What's new is noise levels for most people, sadly, today, are what we used to consider a decent signal!!!!!

Everything else in the thread is still also valid.  But as someone who had to give the hobby up for years because of family , those aren't the only reasons.

Radio is no fun when you only hear bacon frying static.



--Shane
WP2ASS /ex KD6VXI

Bear:

I stay off 75AM to avoid YOU!  ....just kidding. :-)

Actually, my local powerline and switching supply QRN has increased, from S3 in 2005 to S9+10dB today. This makes it hard for me to hear stations.

Since I have used and modified many tube transmitters and built Class-E, I bought a Hermes Lite 2 SDR transceiver. With 15M and 10M being open, I have been enjoying SSB and AM on these bands while using Norm W1GYY's homebrew LDMOS amp.

I hope to build a filter and antenna for 40M AM.

You'll hear me again, but work keeps me hopping!

Cheers,
Dan
W1DAN

Funny.

I've been on a Hermes and a 1 x 8 mrf455 amp I built in the 80s for a few years now.

Sad to see my comment about noise rings true for others.....  shit sucks.

--Shane
WP2ASS  / ex KD6VXI

Return Todd?  I look forward to that.  If anyone could get on a net and shine about picking up 1/8? ball bearings from the basement floor it would be you.
And dont forget that pre-nets are now structured, formalized affairs where you get assigned a place in the rotation and once assigned you are discouraged from promoting idle chatter.

Get on the air.

Still don't know if I put that damned switch back together right. Got all the ball bearings back in, it clicks fine and the meter reads stuff, just not sure if it's the right stuff. Will have to compare notes with you on your 300G once I get it set back up.

Pre-nets.....yeah.....we seem to be losing imagination as much as operators these days.

Currently on 40 some nights & weekends, will look for you. 80m coming soon (maybe by the weekend)....

Me too. 10 over S9, 20 over S9. On a good day, good time, just 6 over S9. I used to be able to manage it. First a receive loop. Then two phased. Now it's just hopeless. I usually can't even hear the vintage SSB net. SSB! There are the web SDRs but then why do I have those great old receivers I got working and enjoyed using.

I will say, though, that after I finally got the 75M dipole back up after it was taken out by a storm, I fired up the old stuff and who did I hear? Don K4KYV all the way from Tennessee  doing a marvelous old buzzard about the flooding there. Time has stood still.  This reminded me of how enjoyable it used to be to get some old this or new that working and get on the air with it.