Title: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: wa2tak on December 10, 2022, 08:32:21 AM Read some various ways on this great forum of getting the proper 6.3 and HV voltages with 120 VAC line .
Curiously, did not see this one: voltage dropping resistor in the 120 line input. Closest was using a external variac. Sooooooooooo let's put one ON the rig. Here's the math, as I see it: My filaments are at 7 vac as expected. Tubes want 6.3... 7 - 6.3 = 0.7 vac drop....10% drop. 10% x 120 = 12 vac line drop. My 20A in CW was at 1.5 ac amps. Need resistor value of 12 vac / 1. 5 amps = 8 ohms. Need resistor power rating of 1.5 amps x 12 vac = 18 watts. Thus; use wirewound variable resistor...cost about $10 to $20. Can us chassis as heat sink...or use extruded heat sink mounted to chassis. Some vintage radios used resistance wire IN the AC line. They were called "curtain burners" as they caused fire. Any comments? Steve WA2TAK Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: K8DI on December 10, 2022, 10:02:40 AM The issue is, in standby, where the rig will be 90% of the time, including between the dits and dahs, the current will be less, the resistor drop will be less, and the filaments will still run high…90% of the time. Better to do resistance in both filament lines, if you don’t mind the raised B+ levels.
Ed Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: wa2tak on December 10, 2022, 11:29:57 AM VERY astute observation, Ed.
Using just tube filament currents ( per tube data sheets )...total = 4.7 amps. Power = 4.7 x 6.3 = 30 watts 30 watts @ 120 vac = 0.25 ac amps 10 ohm voltage drop = 0.25 ac amps x 10 ohms = 2.5 vac voltage drop. 120 vac - 2.5 vac = 117.5 volts AC to rig xmfr. = STILL TOO HIGH with rig in "idle". Your idea of using dropping resistors seems DOABLE for only $2.63 each leg...size is 1 x 0.4 inches: 7 - 6.3 = 0.7 voltage drop resistor value = 0.7v / 4.7amps = 0.15 ohms resistor wattage = 3.5 watts Please see this one: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Holsworthy/SMW7R15JT?qs=zW32dvEIR3tzutB0RL4gyw%3D%3D I also used surface mount caps to fix silver mica disease in IF cans. Next...getting that 400+ B+ to proper value. Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: DMOD on December 15, 2022, 06:41:19 PM VERY astute observation, Ed. Using just tube filament currents ( per tube data sheets )...total = 4.7 amps. Power = 4.7 x 6.3 = 30 watts 30 watts @ 120 vac = 0.25 ac amps 10 ohm voltage drop = 0.25 ac amps x 10 ohms = 2.5 vac voltage drop. 120 vac - 2.5 vac = 117.5 volts AC to rig xmfr. = STILL TOO HIGH with rig in "idle". Your idea of using dropping resistors seems DOABLE for only $2.63 each leg...size is 1 x 0.4 inches: 7 - 6.3 = 0.7 voltage drop resistor value = 0.7v / 4.7amps = 0.15 ohms resistor wattage = 3.5 watts Please see this one: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Holsworthy/SMW7R15JT?qs=zW32dvEIR3tzutB0RL4gyw%3D%3D I also used surface mount caps to fix silver mica disease in IF cans. Next...getting that 400+ B+ to proper value. My suggestion: 1) Measure Key Up voltage at F and F, 2) Add up all filament currents from Franks Tubes, we'll call that Ift, 3) (Key Up Filament Voltage - 6.3 Volts)/ Ift = Rdrop, 4. Place Rdrop/2 = RLeg in each filament supply leg. For example: Let's say Key Up voltage = 6.8Vac. My total filament current = 4.5A. My preferred filament voltage = 6.3V. Rdrop needed = 0.5Vac/4.5A = 0.1 ohms RLeg = 0.05 ohms for each leg from F,F, at 2W each. Phil Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: W7TFO on December 16, 2022, 01:54:15 PM I'd use a filament transformer in 'buck' mode to achieve the desired result. This is a linear type of E reduction, not so dependent on current flow under varied load.
Inexpensive, too with very little loss due to heat. 73DG Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: N8ETQ on December 16, 2022, 02:48:18 PM Dennis has the correct approach. You gotta "buck"..
Also consider that in 1959 AC Line was closer to 110. On my "Burn in Bench" I have a big 12.6VAC Filament xfmr wired to Buck line to a 5 position power strip. I have not seen 120VAC around here for years. Just checked and currently at 122.8VAC. Smokin' hot... Goes up in the summer too. GL es 73 Dan Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: W7TFO on December 16, 2022, 02:59:31 PM Motors are happy with slightly higher Voltages, as they pull less I, according to the PF.
Everything else (with exception of resistive space heaters) not so much. So box up an appropriate piece of iron, affix cords or receps, and proceed. If you want to include a VM, ping me---some here. 73DG Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: Jim, W5JO on December 16, 2022, 05:54:24 PM Just looked at a mil spec sheet for a 5814 (12AU7) which says the minimum filament voltage is 5.7 and the max is 6.9
Eimac says + 5% and - 5% for their tubes. Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: wa2tak on January 02, 2023, 09:52:48 AM Good Job Jim!
I wish to CONFIRM your findings. Per Mil Spec: Mil-E-1D which lists various military tubes and their SPECIFIC TUBE SPECS: tube filament voltage range 6X4 5.7 - 6.9 6CL6 same 6AU6 same 6CL6 same 6L6WCB - ruggedized tube 5.7 -6.9 Thus +/- 10 % variation of filament voltage WAS acceptable for the MILITARY. Now...my CE 20A: 120 VAC B+ = 430 vdc 'idle' B+ = 345 vdc on transmit Insert 400 ohms into B+ >> 305 vdc on transmit Schematic B+ voltage in SB1 mode = 300 vdc Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: wa2tak on January 02, 2023, 10:00:12 AM PS....here is the actual 6L6WGB spec sheet: attached
Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: K9MB on January 02, 2023, 10:34:24 AM I'd use a filament transformer in 'buck' mode to achieve the desired result. This is a linear type of E reduction, not so dependent on current flow under varied load. Inexpensive, too with very little loss due to heat. 73DG As always, you go to the best solution. Adding a filament transformer in series with the primary of the power transformer will reduce the voltage across the primary and put you back into the 50s and early 60s grid voltage levels that was what the CE was designed to use. Everything will cool down if you are not putting in 10-15% more voltage than the transformer was designed to use. It can be a 2 amp winding so it can be a little one and will take little space. Jameco sells them and other places. Elegant solution- https://www.jameco.com/z/29225-R-Jameco-ReliaPro-Power-Transformer-12-6VCT-2A-115VAC-Wire-Leads_29226.html Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: W7TFO on January 02, 2023, 01:39:23 PM Thanks for the kudos, Mike! ;)
73DG Title: Re: Lowering CE 20A circuit voltages Post by: K9MB on January 02, 2023, 07:31:25 PM Thanks for the kudos, Mike! ;) 73DG Always a pleasure… My only reservation is that you may have caused Rube Goldberg to roll over in his grave, because there are much more complicated solutions out there that will never be built up.… 😉 MB |