The AM Forum

OK, it's just like AM but sideways, OK?
I think this is very cool for you folks in the NYC area...
Can anyone roll some tape?

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FM pioneer Edwin Armstrong will be honored on June 11 - on his original FM band.
Back in the very beginning - before World War II - Armstrong envisioned static-free Frequency Modulation radio in the area just north of 40 MHz. (That was before General Sarnoff and others got involved in the spectrum wars. Things got ugly.) New York-market non-com WFDU (89.1) is doing a fine thing with a special broadcast in Armstrong's memory on Saturday, June 11 - and doing it from Armstrong's still-standing tower in Alpine, NJ, and at the Armstrong frequency of 40.8 MHz. It will also be heard on WFDU's own FM signal and online at WFDU.FM.

I used to have an old radio with the 40 mc/s FM band.

Maybe some collectors who have receivers that still work will be able to pick up the broadcast on a radio that was originally designed to receive on that frequency.

Attention AWA members.

I've got an old receiver that'll do 40 mhz FM.
I wonder how well a 6 meter beam would do ???
There's still time to add some pipe to it .... hmmmm.

There are plenty of scanners that should work just fine for this. Publication of the deviation and power seem to be hard to find. One place said the broadcast would be on 42.5 MC.

I just read more details on this...A fellow named Steve Hemphill built a replica of Armstrong's transmitter for the broadcast...The freq is still supposed to be 40.8 MC and more details are posted at http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

The CSC site has it at 42.8. Maybe it drifts.
No details on power, antenna or deviation.

the freq doesn't drift its wideband.................










My opinions cost money, but the dumb looks are still free.

42.8 is the one I've read before.  I'll have to fire up the TS480 and the 6m antenna and hope for the best from about 50 miles south.  I don't even know if I can hear the main transmitter on 89.1.  Maybe I should try that first.  Hmmmm . . .

Cool!  I know Steve, he used to service stuff through Solid Electronics Labs for the two-way shop where I worked around Philly.  He's a ham, of course, although I forget his call.  Haven't seen him in twenty years.  I didn't know he was into historic radio.

You know, the *ideal* receiver for tuning in the broadcast would be a Hallicrafters S-36. How cool would that be?


..

Propogation shud be similar to 6 meters.
Maybe there will be an opening to Jersey that day !!!

Hey .... it could happen !!!

It's New Jersey. Jersey is a place in England. We don't go around calling your place 'hio now do we?

He is not easy to get in touch with

I don't mind hearing this place called "Jersey."  Considering what I call it, "Jersey" is a compliment.

Steve Hemphill is WA3ZAE.

I -think- he used to be WA3AAE.  He lived in Broomall, PA when I knew him.

What exit?

Exit 80. We number the exits so that tourists can figure out how to get the f--- home and offa our roads.

Some info with more to come:


>Hi Scott,
>
>      A bunch of hams in the northeast would like to know some specifics
>about the upcoming Armstrong memorial station which will be on 42.8 MHZ.
>There seems to be no useful contact info so I decided to ask you. Nobody
>does anything on commercial radio without Scott Fybush finding out about it!
>     The questions are what power level, deviation and antenna polorization
>will be used with the replica transmitter? It may very well be able to be
>heard on a regular scanner instead of just some classic boatanchors. I'd
>like to get the word out and could have a whole lot of hams listening. Maybe
>enough interest can be generated to make this a yearly thing. Yes, we know
>about the WFDU simulcast.

Hi, Dave!

Here's what I know: 75 kHz deviation, mono. I believe the antenna is a
vertical whip mounted at the 400' level of the tower, unless Steve's
changed it again, and I think he's using between 100-200 watts.

I've borrowed an Icom IC-R3 to attempt to tune it in on-site. We'll see if
its WFM setting is wide enough. I know Steve's encouraging people to use
the boatanchors, if they've got them.

I'd certainly be listening towards the end of next week for tests, as I
suspect Steve will be there getting everything ready - and I'll be
interested to know what you guys hear!

73 de sf

Thanks for your interest in our commemorative broadcast honoring Major Armstrong at Alpine on June the 11th.
 
The 42.8 MHz. transmission will be using a full +/- 75 KHz. deviation, just like a standard FM broadcast station and just like the Major first used on the original W2XMN station at Alpine in the 1930's. The audio will be monophonic with standard 75us. pre-emphasis, also just like standard FM broadcast procedure.
 
Unfortunately, a standard land-mobile communications receiver or scanner will not respond cleanly to our wideband signals on 42.8 MHz. You would need a receiver with a +/- 100KHz. acceptance-bandwidth, such as one of the old, vintage 42-50 MHz. pre-WW2 FM table radios or something like a Hallicrafters SX-62 with wide-band 42-50 MHz. tuning range. A communications service monitor, such as a Cushman or an IFR, would also be satisfactory for reception purposes.
 
The power output of the transmitter is 250 watts and the transmitting antenna that we are presently using is a Cushcraft BR4 which is an extended half-wave vertically polarized element mounted on the top of the Alpine tower structure. ( 920' AMSL and 400' AGL).
 
Hope that this info helps,
 
Regards,
 
Steve Hemphill

The Regency MX-5000 and MX-7000 general coverage scanners do have a wideband FM mode (WFM) that will demodulate the standard broadcast FM signal.


So is it 42.8 MHz. or 40.8 MHz?

As will most AOR, Icom and Elenco receivers/scanners.

From the WFDU website:

42.8 MHz

About all I have for that frequency range is an R-10 - although if the signal is there, I'll hear it.  Otherwise I'll listen via the web.

I saw the story broadcast on TV.  It will be interesting to hear it as a radio broadcast.

The story of Armstrong versus De Forest, and then Sarnoff, is interesting.  Armstrong was right, but fighting Sarnoff like he did only broke him.  He would have been much better off taking the deal, even though the bucks weren't too good.  His wife did win posthumously.  Small comfort.

Those of you who know Jesse K3GKB might be interested to know that his dad, J. Charles Wagner, said that Armstrong stole the superheterodyne idea from him.  Charlie was not a crackpot... but I wouldn't have thought he was that technical, either.

Whatever.  Armstrong was absolutely brilliant; he was a pioneer in the field of vacuum tubes, the regenerative detector, the superhet, and FM.  People who worked with him were pretty darn loyal to him.  Engineers considered him clearly to be the inventor of the regenerative detector despite De Forest's claims.

Gee This is cool stuff

Is there anyone in the NYC area that could send a live feed to me. I could set up a broadcatser here on the server and then all on the site could listen.

Anyone out there

THE DOCUMENTARY BY KEN BURNS,ABOUT 15 YRS AGO DEALT WITH THIS. EMPIRE OF THE AIR WAS THE NAME,AND AIRED ON PBS. I TAPED IT THEN,AND STILL HAVE IT. VERY COOL PROGRAM. IT DEALS WITH THE HISTORY OF RADIO,AND DETAILS THE FIGHTS BETWEEN ARMSTRONG,SARNOFF,DEFOREST...ARMSTRONG JUMPED OUT OF HIS APARTMENT WINDOW,AFTER YEARS OF BATTLES WITH SARNOFF. IT SHOWS THE TRANSMITTER SITE FOR THE YANKEE NETWORK,AND IT IS SAID IT WAS HEARD ALL OVER THE EAST COAST. IT LEAVES ONE CONVINCED THAT SARNOFF WAS A REAL JERK,AND STOPPED AT NOTHING TO GET WHAT HE WANTS. BTW,ON JUNE 11,WHAT IS THE TIME OF THE BROADCAST?..73..TIM...SK..

Hi Tim...... Page one of this thread,the 5th post down by KD0HG has a link to the stations website. I don't recall reading a timebut I may have just missed it.

I saw that Empire of the Air on our local PMS station a few times.
It points out the difference between Armstrong the engineer, who actually understood what went on inside the glass of a tube, and De Forest the tinkerer !

RIGHT ON BUD..I'LL LOOK INTO THAT..IT WAS A GREAT SHOW,AND UR RIGHT,DEFOREST COULDNT EXPLAIN HOW THINGS WORKED..AND HE WAS ANOTHER COLOURFUL CHARACTER,SUING EVERYONE IN SIGHT.LEFT PENNILESS BY HIS OWN DETERMINATION TO FIGHT EVERYONE. AMAZING WHEN YOU THINK OF IT,ALL THE CON-ARTISTS THAT PREVAILED IN EARLIER TIMES. SEEMS TO ME THAT EDISON SCREWED PEOPLE ALONG THE WAY AS WELL..SARNOFF HAD THE BACKING OF RCA,OF COURSE,AND AMAZING THAT THE 40MC BAND WAS DETERMINED AFTER THE WAR NOT TO BE USED FOR BROADCASTING..SARNOFF AGAIN,BIG MONEY,GOVERNMENTS,AND PEOPLE WITH INFLUENCE DICTATING THE FUTURE,FOR US WITH ONLY THEIR OWN INTERESTS IN MIND...TIM...SK..

AHHHH.

The broadcast will start at High Noon !!!!

Not everyone has a scanner capable of wideband FM (myself included).  However, most junk collectors (hams) do have an assortment of conventional FM receivers and tuners around that, of course, have wideband IFs at 10.7 MHz.  

I also believe that the majority of scanners covering 40.8 or 42.8 only have narrow FM IFs at 10.7 MHz.  Why not run some coax from the scanner IF (at the input before the filters) and feed it to the IF of the FM broadcast receiver?  You'll have the correct passband for wide FM and the 75us de-emphasis preceding the audio output.  It HAS to work!

If my workbench were set-up I'd try it myself... but it isn't so I can't.

Eric - WB2CAU

MOST OF THE NEWER RIGS WILL TUNE THIS.. I BELIEVE MY IC706 WILL DO WBFM,BUT I THINK MY FT847 WILL TUNE THIS FREQ,BUT NOT WBFM...HAVE A HAMFEST TO ATTEND THAT DAY,BUT SHOULD BE BACK IN THE SHACK LATER IN THE DAY..GOTTA SEE ABOUT GETTING SOME MORE HVY IRON..TIM..SK..

About a year ago I picked up a beautiful like new condition Hallicrafters FM receiver that covered from 40 to 50 mhz. It cost me all of $2.00 so I couldn't refuse it. I turned it on when I got it home and of course there was nothing to hear but hiss. This broadcast will give me probably the only opportunity I will ever have to actually hear something coming out of this receiver. I am looking forward to it & I am going to film the receiver and hopefully the audio on my video camera.

bob
WB1AIJ

My FT-100D ricer mobile rig will do WBFM, all you need to do is when NBFM (like 2 meters) is selected, push and hold the RX mode button to toggle it to wideband. I think the IC-706 works similarly.
Real thumping bass out of that 2-1/2" speaker....

I like Eric's idea because it seems JS. Nothing like a JS to make stuff do new things. Also have a 70's Allied 6 band portable that will do the correct detection + de-emphasis if I can figure out how to get the broadcast FM I.F. to work on the public service band. Bandswitch is in the open and only has about 95 connections.

From today's M Street:

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The frequency is confirmed as 42.8 MC.

"Citadel Chief Engineer Philip Galasso (K2PG) notes that scanner receivers with a wideband FM mode should be able to receive the broadcast on Armstrong's pre-WWII FM frequency. The broadcast begins at noon, EDT and will be simulcast on WFDU's normal frequency of 89.1 and online at wfdu.fm"

-bill

Don't forget this weekend. Besides the VHF/UHF Contest, this one is still on:

http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

(http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/tower1.jpg)(http://www.armstrongfoundation.org/images/photo.jpg)