Print Page - Hermes 14-bit SDR Xcvr available

For those who can't get the big iron in their rigs to make AM, or can no longer hoist it up onto the table Apache Labs is doing another run of their Hermes 14-bit transceiver board. Among other things, they'll do nice AM as well as all the other modes. This is the same as the Anan 10e innards. You'll have to add a TR switch and a Windows computer connection and, most likely, some linear amplification as it makes less than 500 milliwatts. I ordered one and they are predicting a March 25 shipping. If you haven't seen the ApacheLabs / Anan products, they are all well made, and well supported by an online community of smart people, some of whom occasionally lurk among us on this very site.

https://apache-labs.com/al-products/1022/Open-HPSDR-Hermes-14-bit-ADC-EP3C25-Transceiver-Card-Assembled--Tested.html

73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on February 10, 2022, 03:41:07 PM

Thanks for posting this, although I have been aware of this board being offered. What has kept me from pulling the trigger is it is a 14 bit as you had mentioned but my Anan 100 is a 16 bit.

Do you or anyone know what the difference would be as far as performance comparing it to the 16 bit?

Also with its output being 500 miliwatts, does anyone know if this is the same output for the 16 bit board without using the onboard RF amp that comes with Anan 100?

I am thinking this might be a good back up board to have on hand.

Thank you,
Ken

Ken.. Probably the most important difference between the 14 bit and 16 bit units is the dynamic range, 16 bit being better. Unless you are using it in a multi-multi contest station, it probably won't make a difference. I think, but not sure, that 16 bit processing ought to be more processing intensive, although most any modern day computer that you may have in the shack is plenty enough to run it well. I plan on using mine with a RaspberryPi 4B which is competent but certainly not a powerhouse. There are free Linux softwares for the purpose.
I don't know if the Anan 100 makes its 100 watts on the SDR board or on another board in the case. For my own purpose, I'm planning on using a 100 watt transmit board salvaged from a defunct Kenwood of some sort. It has a switchable low pass filter on board and will follow the Hermes around. On SSB/CW it would be good for 100 watts. On AM more like 20 or 25 watts is reasonable, same as the Anan 100. I also have the RF brick from a Drake TR7 and I may go that route as it has a killer heat sink, but I'd have to add low pass filtering to it. Yet another choice is a board I bought from Russia, capable of 300 watts out CW/SSB with onboard LPF. It uses SD2933 transistors and I am fabricating a copper heat spreader and fan cooled aluminum finned heat sink for yet another SDR I'm cobbling up. Good luck on getting the Russian stuff any more. Most of it is actually pretty good.
Didn't the WRL Globe Champ and a few of its brethren have an input connector for running it as a linear amplifier? Something of that nature would be nifty, a bit of both worlds. If you are willing to do a bit of ham improvisation, you can come up with a reasonably powered signal for less money than the full store-boughten rig.
I'm eagerly awaiting the promised 25 March ship date for the Hermes. There are those who contend that the Hermes-Lite project (12-bit) is a better deal as it makes 5 watts for less money. But it's not available right now and the buzz is that the ubiquitous semiconductor shortage situation is not promising for it. As with cat food in the store, the rule now seems to be.... If you really want it, and you see it, better grab it while you can. I don't see much else in the pipeline.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Well, I bit the bullet on one of those 14-bit Sdr boards.

So, I now have a few questions if I may. Has anyone built Jim's W6PQL HF amps using two of the ldmos pallets?

Where does one go to purchase a 50-volt 40 amp supply to power these amps? Are these supplies being stacked in series or parallel or both to achieve the correct current draw and voltages?

Also, these 14-bit boards only produce 500 mil watts. What drivers are being built to drive Jim's amps?

By the way, I use an Anan 100 on AM, and they sound great. Can't say it heats the shack though. But I am running a pair of 4cx800s that help!
Anyway I am looking forward to using this 14-bit bit board and perhaps putting one of Jim's amps behind it. All on AM of course. 🙂

Thank you
Ken

Hi Ken...

I ordered mine on the first day and am patiently waiting. First off, the 48 volt supplies are on Ebay among other places. MeanWell seems to be the brand of choice. They come in many voltages and sizes and seem to mostly be fairly RF-quiet. If you look in the topic listings on his site he talks about how to use them, parallel them up, etc.
https://w6pql.com/a_big_power_supply.htm
QRP-Labs sells a 10 watt broadband linear amplifier kit to use as a driver, for $26.. Be careful because they also have a non-linear amp that they use with their WSPR kits.
I don't personally know anyone who has done the combiner route with W6PQL amps but I would not worry as he is a good and careful engineer. He has been keeping the VHF/UHF and moonbounce crowd happy for years. Things I've bought from him are darn near mil spec.
73 de Norm W1ITT

For those who have ordered the 14-bit Hermes board, the news from Apache in Australia is that the shipments will be delayed by "a few weeks".
https://sdr-radio.groups.io/g/main/topic/shipping_update_from_apache/89887958?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,89887958,previd=1647794879508849000,nextid=1646684549919323270&previd=1647794879508849000&nextid=1646684549919323270
Wow... That's quite a link isn't it ! Anyhow, this is how the world works in 2022 so I'm just gonna suck it up and wait. I'm sure it's the dreaded supply chain problems. I read that the outfit in Japan that makes 80% of the processors that go in Fords was messed up by effects of the 7.3 magnitude earthquake in Japan, so life could be worse. I had a Ford once. Only once. Anyhow, it gives us more time to get an enclosure together, figure out a T-R circuit and amplification to goose the rig up from 500 milliwatts. The hole drilling dimensions are on the TAPR site as I recall.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on March 12, 2022, 08:58:34 PM

Hi Norm,

Thanks for the replies.
I looked on the web site for the 10 watt linear and read the info on it,
but I did not see the input wattage for the board, and ideas?

73
Ken

Ken...
The 10W linear amplifier on QRP Labs says 26db gain. So 10 db down would be 1 watt in, another 10 db down would be 100 milliwatts in, and another 6 db down would take us to to a requirement of 25 milliwatts to drive it. That all adds up to the 26 db. The Hermes makes 500 milliwatts. I would run Hermes on the easy side, perhaps 250 milliwatts out, and then get a 10 db pad to get things down to 25 milliwatts. At that point you are smack in the middle of the Hermes power adjustment range.
I am told that the Hermes series runs very clean IMD at 250 to 400 milliwatts, and an advantage of using a 10 db pad is that it provides a fairly constant load on the Hermes no matter what happens on the far side. A 10 db pad with a worst case open or short output is about 2 to one SWR, roughly. "Wasting" 10 db at this power level isn't going to kill any polar bears so there's little need to feel guilty, and it makes that expensive Hermes just a bit more bulletproof. Type SMA pads are pretty cheap on Ebay etc.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on March 23, 2022, 02:25:59 PM

Hello Norm,

Thank you for this clarification, you are certainly educating me here.

Obviously I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, however I am not afraid to learn either.

I looked back at the QRP Lab web site and saw the (((2-stage amplifier provides 26dB of gain))). I didn't put that together in the sense the 26db gain is the results of calculating backwards if you will
to get the respective input power. I am not around this type of lingo to often! Your explanation that you have shared has open my thought process a bit more then I expected, thank you.

Taking what you had mentioned, so 10 watts is 26db more then 25mw, so going to 10 watts from 25mw is a 26db amplification. A bit of a repeat but it is needed for my brain to absorb it!

Also since you said the Hermes runs best around 250 milliwatts, Is this why you would only suggest a 10db padding and not more.
Also seems like a digital milliwatt meter may be in order.

Thank you Norm.
I wish you lived down the road a piece from me!!!

Ken..
Yup decibels can count up or down. If you are in a hurry and don't want to mess with logarithms, all you have to know is that 10 db is a factor of 10. That is, it either multiplies or divide by 10. And 3 db is a factor of two. By taking out the 10s and the 3s you can get pretty close to where you need to be and guess (interpolate) any little leftover bit. It'll be close enough for most practical work.
I think it was on Aliexpress or maybe Ebay, but I got a little RF power meter that measured up to a watt or so...good for the small measurements. It has a 2.8" screen, same as the popular NanoVNA. I think it was less than $60. But I'm on Tinian, getting ready to tune an HF curtain array for our Uncle, so I can't lay my hands on it now.
By the way, I'm a bit disappointed that Apache hasn't officially said something about being late on the 14 bit Hermes. Not that we could do anything about it, but it would be interesting to know what parts are unobtanium. Is it the FPGA or DAC, or just some little stuff? Not to worry, patience is a virtue, and we could all use more virtue. They are a good and innovative company. I have a 16-bit TAPR Hermes, looks just the same, and a few years ago they came out with a daughter board for it to allow it to take a precision 10mhz source for frequency locking. Abhi, the head guy at Apache, sent them out free to anyone who said they'd like one. Fear not.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Hello Norm,

I appreciate you thank you.

I am familiar with the division of dbm meaning to go down in DBM that is. I worked for a cell company and I had a very good and fair boss who knew what he was doing.

He talked to me about DBM and how to calculate. For instance we had to adjust one of the Cell amplifiers to 39dbm (roughly 8 watts) and another one to 40dbm (10 watts).

However if I am not using DMB and such I forget a lot of what I had been taught.

The biggest factor I never understood and it may be so clear and simple is when they say an amplifier has... lets say 26dbm gain and they don't give the input drive.
I just didn't know this simple procedure that you had shown to achieve the input information.

I would always ask the question, something like..."26db of gain of what"? I just didn't understand. I'm not afraid to admit my dumbness as long as I eventually learn!

Again, thank you Norm for a simple and successful clarification. It may be simple for most but a big deal for me, like a 100 watt light bulb that had just been turned on!

I understand too that if the board will be late getting out, someone should had mentioned this. I will look at some low input meters, thank you.
As for those daughter boards, I also have one for my Anan 100. I have never installed it, but maybe one day I will fool around with one of those 10 mhz generators and I will have to install it.
The directions for the installation is quite simple as I am sure you know. I have had my Anan apart twice now with the boards removed. Those sma connectors can be a pain!

73 Ken

UPDATE:

Just found this on The Apache, Anan Web Site:

Please note that due to a delay in delivery of the PHY Chip KSZ9021RL the delivery schedule has been delayed by 4-6 weeks, our factory is on standby and will commence production ASAP on receipt of this part from our supplier, expected ship date is early May 2022.

Ken and all..
FYI, I looked up that chip. It's a four-dollar ethernet transceiver that lets the radio talk to the host computer. That's the world we live in today ! Little diddly stuff like that can put the kibosh on big stuff and keep higher dollar things from going anywhere. I guess we should be thankful...most of us..that we aren't in the electronic manufacturing business and have to tie up dollars in a product only to have it sit on the shelf due to a four buck part being unavailable.
This morning I was looking up electric water heaters to mate with a solar project. I see that Rheem makes one with all sorts of swell features and I can even monitor and control it with WiFi from my smartass phone. (Why?) Betcha it's chock full of chips. No thank you! I'll stick with the ones that have good old fashioned bimetallic thermostats that I can replace.
Anyhow, I'm happy that Apache filled us in on the situation. We can get the ancillary parts and pieces ready for when the units arrive.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Latest on the 14-bit Hermes from Apache Labs:

The component kit for the Hermes card has been provided to the Contract Manufacturer and is in queue for production, we expect them to take up Hermes in the next 2-3 weeks,

The 10W PA production is complete and for those who have ordered one these will ship with the Hermes boards.

Thank you to you and everybody else waiting on the Hermes for your patience, it is much appreciated.
******************************

It appears then that they have all their parts and they now are sending them off to the assembly shop. All this stuff will be fed into the magic contraption on tapes for placing then oven or hot air soldering. There is usually a function test on each board that follows, then shipping if all goes well. I figure if we have the unit in our hands mid September we'll be doing well. But that's how it is in the new economy. I wish that Apache had been a bit more forthcoming with periodic updates.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Okay another update on the 10E.

This is what was said on the Apache's website in the community forum section under the 10E.

You will start receiving your shipping quotes mid week, we expect to ship out the first lot commencing this week.

First production lot is of a 100 units, the second lot will ship in 3 weeks and should cover all remaining pre-orders.

We again apologize for the inordinate delay, but our industry has been facing a perfect supply chain storm!

Thank you for your patience.

So fingers, toes, coax jumpers and all those shorted wires cross in hopes the 10E's will get shipped!

73
Ken

Hi Ken and all..
I bought and paid for mine on the first day of open ordering back in February. Theoretically, I should be among the first to get my shipping quote, but I'm still waiting for that email to float in. I'll let you know when I have a tracking number.
It was stated at the outset that ApacheLabs was building the 250 14-bit boards "at cost". I suspect that the 14-bit boards have been a lower priority than the products that are intended to make a profit. Along the way they have run into the usual product availability snags. At one point, they were lacking a $4.50 ethernet transceiver IC. After some searching I found an outfit in Hong Kong that claimed to have over 1100 of them at a decent price and I forwarded that info to ApacheLabs. There was no response from them but, as we are finding out, they are not much on communication. Apache and the Anan series are wonderful toys but I think I'd be reluctant to try to do business with them again. I still have a full set of the TAPR Mercury-Penelope-Atlas that I will probably get going again.
In the meantime, I'm cautiously waiting.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Hello Norm,

Well I was able to get a reply back from Tony before this latest announcement.

After given my reference number I was told I would be in the second batch. I was told 3 to 4 weeks. As of now it's been about 4 weeks. Now the talk is the next batch will be 3 weeks from when they send out the first.

Well it's easy to get frustrated by now with this order. I think by hanging in there we will appreciate the new board even more when we finally get it, I like to think we will! As always time will tell...

73
Ken

At long last, yesterday I received and payed my shipping invoice and this morning I got an email from DHL with tracking information. They say the Hermes will arrive at my place on 22 November. I placed my order on the first day the offer was posted so presumably I'm in that first flight of 100 units (number 3464). Last February this was to have been a three week wait but this is what the new world has brought upon us. I'll be running mine with a RaspberryPi 4B and a solid state RF amplifier board from a defunct Kenmore transceiver.
The good news is that this is not vaporware and floobie dust. Be of stout heart and good cheer. Things are in motion....finally !
73 de Norm W1ITT

Finally, my 14-bit Hermes arrived here in Maine. It started out via DHL from Gurugram, a ways down the road from New Delhi, hence to Bahrain, and on to Leipzig, and to Cincinnati and then to Boston. DHL got tired of it in Boston and gave it over to the USPS which brought it to me today, Friday. For those who have ordered, be advised that there are no connectors that you can wire up to bring in power etc. It'll take some chasing around in the Mouser catalog to get them. But Mouser is pretty darn quick so I'm not worried.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: KD6VXI on November 20, 2022, 07:45:19 AM

Quote from: WB4AM on November 19, 2022, 05:15:25 PM

Hello Francis (WA1GFZ)

Don't know if you are aware that you have me blocked on replying
to your message.
I have been trying to reply to your message that you had
Sent, but you have me blocked.

Ken

You aren't the only one. I've had that issue for a couple years with replying to him.

He is active on facebutt, if you have it.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Hello Shane,

Francis had gotten back to me, he said he doesn't know why he is blocked or why we are blocked trying to get back to him.

Quote from: W1ITT on November 25, 2022, 12:28:38 PM

That's great Norm, well actually that's awesome! When I first read your post my thoughts were Wow!...I still can't believe the wait was this long.

Thanks for giving us heads up on the voltage input connections. Will you be using the Power Poles? On my Anan 100 I had issues with the connections
that Apaches Labs originally used. I didn't go with the Power Poles, I just wired it directly. I suppose having the options of disconnecting at the radio is more convenience,
but its never been an issue so far.

By the way, although I ordered the 10 watt board from Apache Labs, I decided to order that other 10 watt board that you had posted about. A friend of mine had bought a used a 10E and it seem to have issues with
the on-board 10 watt unit. So I decide to make the purchase on my behalf to see how this amp that you had mention will work. <<< (Just for Shins and Grins, learning purpose and for future references)

Well again I am glad you finally received your Anan. Maybe you can report back with your ideas on your build and any experiences you may or may not encounter, and any pics as well!

73 for now...Ken

Quote from: WB4AM on November 27, 2022, 06:18:58 AM

Quote from: KD6VXI on November 20, 2022, 07:45:19 AM

Quote from: WB4AM on November 19, 2022, 05:15:25 PM

Hello Francis (WA1GFZ)

Don't know if you are aware that you have me blocked on replying
to your message.
I have been trying to reply to your message that you had
Sent, but you have me blocked.

Ken

You aren't the only one. I've had that issue for a couple years with replying to him.

He is active on facebutt, if you have it.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Hello Shane,

Francis had gotten back to me, he said he doesn't know why he is blocked or why we are blocked trying to get back to him.

Yeah, it's a mystery.

We talked about it a couple times on Facebook and he told me the same thing. Odd.

Anywho....

I just picked up a Kenwood TS440 amplifier and low pass filter board. I have the 5 watt Hermes Lite. This ought to make an excellent amplifier chain for it.

For the price of 120 dollars for both board and the entire rear end of the TS440, shipped to me in the island, I couldn't pass that up.

--Shane
WP2ASS /ex KD6VXI

Hello Shane,

That should work out just fine.

I actually created a 2 meter 50 watt amplifier from a 150 mhz mobile transceiver that was destroyed from water
but the rf section was still usable. (Used for a HT) I had help from a friend way back when who taught me how to use a single diode for a 1/4 wave rectifier along with a small coil for the keying circuit.
It worked like a charm. I built this for another friend who had held onto it for like 20 years and just a couple of months ago he had sent it to me. I will keep until I am no longer around!!!

When you get around building it, bring it here for show and tell !

73
Ken

Quote from: WB4AM on December 02, 2022, 08:08:22 AM

Hello All,

I had come across a Ham on QRZ some time ago with the call AC2IQ. Maybe he comes on here I don't know? Recently I was listening on 75M and someone mentioned this Ham's call sign.
So to refresh my memory I looked him up again. I am glad I did as I had forgotten some of the projects he had taken on. One being installing an Anan SDR board into a metal box.
Please have a look at the link below, I believe you will find it interested.

https://www.qrz.com/db/AC2IQ (https://www.qrz.com/db/AC2IQ)

73
Ken

Oh, if people only knew who Dave was...

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

This might be slightly off subject, but I have become interested in Adaptive Predistortion as away to clean up my 3rd order IMD on. Big linear amplifier I am building.
I have a FLEX-5000A and I have read that there are guys that run “Pure Audio”, which I am assuming is related to predistortion feedback.
I realize that one needs a good in line coupler to provide the feedback signal, but how that interfaces to a rig, I do not understand
ANAN rigs are always mentioned in conjunction with this technique and Open HDsdr.
First question: Is it pissible to interface with a FLEX5000a or are those rumors spurious?
Second question: If I gave up on the FLEX5K for Predistortion, will the Hermes14 work in this kind of system with Thetus?? Or whatever?
I know that the Hermes just puts out 500mW max, so amultistage linear will be required, but if the predistortion function is there, the IMD of those linears are less important.
Any help or information is appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
73, Mike

Mike... In the Anan series, the low level transmitted sample if switched and fed into the receiver and the magic happens. You will need a coupler that samples the line and typically it wants to be around minus 50 db or so, and you still have room to attenuate from there, as necessary. People sell couplers and you can make one fairly easily with a toroid over a piece of coax inner conductor in a minibox. However, these simple couplers are non directional. Depending on your reflected power, you could be feeding some reflected power along with the incident power, back to the receiver for analysis. This reflected power will be of a different phase than the incident and could conceivably "confuse" the calculations. A directional coupler is a good way to go. W6PQL.COM sells a nice kit for 40 dollars and it has a minus 50 db tap, for our purposes. If you go to his website, look down the left side for "parts I can supply" click then scroll down past the 1296, UHF/VHF stuff to the HF goodies. Down there is the coupler kit. Quality is excellent and the site has construction info. Jim is a sharp engineer and sell quality kits.
I tried to search for APD as Flex calls it but couldn't find any indication that it is out in the world. Probably I didn't use the right search terms or hunt deep enough. Perhaps someone can chime in.
But anyway, get a directional coupler and box it up with appropriate connectors as a good start on the journey.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on April 11, 2023, 07:38:43 PM

Hi Norm,
Many thanks for the insights and information.
The sampler-for me- is the simple part. I found several versions that can be made in a small diecast box.

http://www.lyonscomputer.com.au/Test-Equipment/50-Ohm-HF-RF-Sampler/50-Ohm-HF-RF-Sampler.html

The rest of it is dark to me at present, but you gave me some clues.
The receiver that is fed back to must be a second receiver in the transceiver?
I guess the signal is detected and the software analyzes the distortion and an algorithm corrects the waveform and it is somehow substituted in the transceiver transmit amplifier chain? 🤪 It sounds like “beam me up” magic at present.
Also, thanks for the FLEX attempt to discover any clues. FLEX obviously has not been out front on this, which is odd to me.
What about adaptation of this to Hermes14?
It is obviously associated witg Apache, though an open system project, so it should be compatible-right?
My portal into APD may be through Hermes and some low level Solid state linears to get me up to a 100 watt level (20 wattsAM).
Any further comments deeply appreciated.
73, Mike

Mike... In the single receiver setups such as the Hermes 14 and 16 they use switching to connect the receiver either to the antenna or to the sampler, as appropriate. I think the more capable Anans such as the 7000 and the new 8000 may just use the second receiver, although it would have to be switched out of its main use as well. TAPR used to sell a switch for this purpose but it's out of stock now. Info to recreate it is posted on their site, nothing complicated or hard to find. The TAPR/Anan mods to PowerSDR work with both Hermes boards with the switching.
My suspicion, and not having any inside information, is that Flex is concentrating its efforts on its government and commercial client applications and just hasn't taken the time to advance their amateur products. They certainly have the expertise. All of these products seem to be on thin ice. The team at Anan is constrained by materials and manpower and the software development is handled by a small bunch of brilliant open source volunteers. We are lucky to have what we have! The source code for PureSignal is all open source so others should have little trouble to adapt it to their products., if they had the will to do so The bands would be cleaner if they did.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on April 12, 2023, 10:39:18 AM

Hi Norm,
Good information- thanks.
Really cannot blame FLEX for going after Government contracts.
Collins followed that path while Amateur development died out.

Seems like you are saying that if I want APD now, a 7-8000 series ANAN is the best route.
$4-5k is a lot if money and then you get to wait.
I may just go for the best old school design and bide my time and it will be easier to make a clean rig cleaner than to try to add freshener spray to bad smelling garbage.
😉 Appreciate your wise counsel. 73, Mike

Mike.. Aside from the cost, the wait for Anan is glacial. I think some guys on their forum are looking at a year. I'm sure the folks there would like to be able to turn them out quickly but again, components are the problem.
A year or so ago, Tom K1JJ did a series of posts on his efforts to build a squeaky clean linear amplifier chain, deep Class A and paying attention to operating point at each stage of the chain. It's not PureSignal, just old school tech done up very well.
One of my to-do projects for "someday" is to build a pair of 4X500s in the G2DAF configuration and see what PureSignal could do with it. Those amps were famous for their occasional awful IMD. They rectified some of the drive power to make a variable screen voltage so all you had was filaments and an anode supply to run a tetrode. Gee, what could go wrong ... ?
73 de Norm W1ITT

General purpose questions.

Comparing the actual subjective operation of and sense of it:
- how does the Hermes 14 compare to the Anan 100D?
- how about that Red Pitaya or its Chi-com clone?
- how about the Flex 6000 series and the 5000?
- the newer Anan products?

Especially WRT receive audible qualities?

And what software options are to be had??

I was listening to an Anan 100D using the PowerSDR (that's it, right?) the other day on AM, and was not really terribly impressed with the way it sounded compared to my rather good R-390a --->IF OUT--->Malachite SDR Chi-com clone w/1.10d software --->(optional) BHI DSP audio noise reduction.

But that is actually a killer good combination, imho.

Opinions and info, appreciated!

_-_-bear

Quote from: W1ITT on April 12, 2023, 05:37:32 PM

Hi Norm,
Tom has been a great influence on my desire to concentrate on quality vs quantity in high power rigs.
I am following Tom in building right now- a one hole 3-500z amp that should spec out at -35 to -38dB 3rd Order IMD taking 15-20 watts from an exciter and putting out about 150-200 watts that is clean into a pair of 3-1000z or a pair of 4-1000a. I have obtained two pair of 3-1000z now, so that is the direction I am going.
My goal there is to put out 600 watts carrier on AM and 1500watts SSB.
The goal is to make the limiting factor my exciter.
I have a Flex-5000a now that has a spec of -35dB at 100 watts. I will run it much lower into the single hole 3-500z intermediate power amp, so hope to get a few more dB in my 3rd order products at the output.
Worst case is that my signal ends up about -35dB and then I have to go the APD route to get into the -50s.
I do not see this as a fad or fettish, but a serious attempt to elevate the cleanness and spectral quality of my rig with the hope that we will not descend into CB qualitu horror.
As Tom has said, quality AM has been our there in the past when excellent operators had nothing but a scope and skill to adjust their transmitters.
Surely-with the spectral displays we all have now, there is no excuse for offending our neighbors on the bands and embarrassing our friends, who might not like to mention that our signal is wide and causing interference to adjacent stations.

Quote from: WBear2GCR on April 12, 2023, 08:18:26 PM

All good questions, Bear. I am asking them myself.
73, Mike

Anan is a commercial set of products based on the open source OpenHPSDR project. One of the results of the project was the Hermes board.

http://openhpsdr.org/wiki/index.php?title=HERMES

Hermes has 2 code components - gateware and software. Gateware (firmware actually) runs in the FPGA on the hermes board. It implements among other things, multiple virtual receivers. It is the capability of one of these receivers to monitor the transmitted signal and feed that back to the PC software for analysis and correction to the transmitted signal.

The software for Hermes was OpenHPSDR which has now been redesigned and enhanced and is called Thetis. This is where you control the adaptive component which is called Pure Signal.

There are multiple ways to get a Hermes setup. Anan is the commercial company founded by one of the original project members. Originally the OpenHPSDR group offered boards for Hermes. In conjunction with Anan, the recent Hermes 14-bit board was offered on a short-term run. It is just a board, that needs to be built into a transceiver adding a power supply and a PA.

There are other projects that run the openHPSDR code. One of them is Hermes-Lite. This is a variation of the Hermes gateware and software that provides most of the functionality of the mainline Hermes. I have one of these transceivers. This is a completely open source hardware project and you can occasionally purchase them from Makerfabs and get support from a mailing list. There are over 1000 of these in the wild.

http://www.hermeslite.com/

John

Quote from: w9jsw on April 13, 2023, 07:16:32 AM

Anan is a commercial set of products based on the open source OpenHPSDR project. One of the results of the project was the Hermes board.

http://openhpsdr.org/wiki/index.php?title=HERMES

Hermes has 2 code components - gateware and software. Gateware (firmware actually) runs in the FPGA on the ihermes board. It implements among other things, multiple virtual receivers. It is the capability of one of these receivers to monitor the transmitted signal and feed that back to the PC software for analysis and correction to the transmitted signal.

The software for Hermes was OpenHPSDR which has now been redesigned and enhanced and is called Thetis. This is where you control the adaptive component which is called Pure Signal.

There are multiple ways to get a Hermes setup. Anan is the commercial company founded by one of the original project members. Originally the OpenHPSDR group offered boards for Hermes. In conjunction with Anan, the recent Hermes 14-bit board was offered on a short-term run. It is just a board, that needs to be built into a transceiver adding a power supply and a PA.

There are other projects that run the openHPSDR code. One of them is Hermes-Lite. This is a variation of the Hermes gateware and software that provides most of the functionality of the mainline Hermes. I have one of these transceivers. This is a completely open source hardware project and you can occasionally purchase them from Makerfabs and get support from a mailing list. There are over 1000 of these in the wild.

http://www.hermeslite.com/

John

Hi John,
Thanks- great information.
So have you implemented APD in your Hermes Lite unit?
Buying a Hermes14 and building a power supply and adding a linear amplifier to raise the output from 500mW to 50-100 watts sounds easy.
I can also build the coupler to provide the feedback signal.
So after that- all that is needed is Thetis plus connections to the bus that can access one of the virtual receivers-right?
Is there anything else needed?
Thanks again for the excellent information.
73, Mike

Mike... You mentioned that buying a Hermes and integrating it was the easy part. T'aint so. The last Hermes14 build was announced in February 2022, only 250 or 300 to be built. I ordered mine the first day and it was almost a year until I..and the rest..got them. Supply chain problems, etc.
For now, HermesLite from Makerfabs https://makerfabs.com/hermes-lite-2.html is probably the way to go. They are evidently having a build to be delivered later this month. You can also get a low pass filter that hitches right on as well. I don't anticipate another Hermes build from Anan as they did the last one at-cost and it turned out to be more heartburn than they had planned on. HermesLite is a 12-bit unit but probably won't make much difference unless you are a multi-multi contester. Check the online forums to see if it will play PureSignal games.
SDR ham radio is still a pretty tough club to join if you don't want to drop $4K to start.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Quote from: W1ITT on April 13, 2023, 01:34:07 PM

Hi Norm,
Wow! I may need to leave instructions in my will if this get much worse.
It is confusing to me.
I looked on Apache site and found the Hermes14 board and the 10 watt amplifier for sale and this message was on the catalog page as a notice:

Orders commence shipment from 5th October on first come first serve basis, you will receive an email from us once your order comes up in the Queue.

Apache Labs is NOT taking any mode orders for the Hermes Card and the 10W PA.

This is a special group order based on community demand, boards are being manufactured and sold at cost.

Please note - Shipping will be charged at actuals.

* 90 Day Warranty against Manufacturing defects
* Factory Assembled & Tested
* Immersion gold plated 8 layer PCB
* The Customer is responsibe for any Duties, Taxes or levies charged by customs during import

When they say the 5th of October, are they talking about 2023 or last year?
What do you think.
73, Mike

Mike,

For Hermes lite 2, PS is fully functional. You have to add another SMA connector to the back panel to be fed from your coupler. Thetis setup for PS is well documented and straightforward. You can also run it on a Raspberry PI.

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/wiki/PureSignal

https://f5npv.wordpress.com/pure-signal-rf-sampler/

If you are considering a Hermes Lite 2, the ordering is now open. It is fully functional if you purchase the board, the N2ADR LPF board and the enclosure. It will put out a full 5W from 160M to 10M. No 6M support. I am considering ordering a second one.

I have not implemented it on mine as I am currently using mine as an exciter for my 813 rig. See my QRZ page for pics.

John

Quote from: W1ITT on April 14, 2023, 07:00:20 AM

Mike... The crew at Anan is better at making radios than they are at keeping their site up to date. Originally the Hermes 14 was offered in February 2022, promised for late March of that year. Events transpired to delay that. The lack of timely information is frustrating but worth it if and when the goods finally arrive.
The new G2 radio looks nice for $4K if you hit the lottery.
73 de Norm W1ITT

Thanks for confirming my suspicions and fears. ANAN obviously needs a cold blooded Capitalist manager to get their business model up to their tech genius.
As a design engineer who had many battles with my boss over time frames for finalizing designs over 32 years, I am sympathetic with their avoidance of managers like my boss, but I learned to balance practicality with excellence while pushing him to dyspepsia and he offered me royalties based on production quantities of my designs and we both made some money….
It is obvious that the techies are ascendent at ANAN now and thus, no site updates and ridiculous wait times abound…😬😉

Quote from: w9jsw on April 14, 2023, 07:41:08 AM

Thanks John,
I just went to the Hermes Lite site and ordered the board, the LPF and the enclosure.
I had hesitated because it is a 12bit system, I understand, and that limits the receiver dynamic range on strong signals
However, since my real need is to be able to implement the Pure Signal feedback loop from my amplifier and lower my IMD, I can just use it for transmit, if dynamic range receiver limitations appear and use my Flex-5000a for reception as lomg as I protect the Flex receiver and silence it on transmit.
Since it puts out 5 watts, it will be easy to get an amp to bridge up to the power I need for my single hole 3-500z amp that will drive my big linear. Pure Signal- if it works will make all smooth then-theoretically…

Thanks, John, for your continuing efforts to help us all achieve the best experience from the Hermes Lite II and Thetis. It is only twelve bits, but how many kilobucks does does the Anan take to get just two more? Lite II is truly affordable!

If I may make a couple observations regarding plans for employing "Pure Signal"...

As mentioned previously in this thread, it would be prudent to employ a directional coupler (instead of a simpler line sampler) to complete the PS feedback loop. The software performs more effectively if not confused by the reflected signal component. If your line sampler is placed at a point in the line that is perfectly matched (nil reflected component) then this may be a moot point.

Last, compare this adventure to that of the audiophile (NOT AUDIOPHOOL) endeavoring for the most accurate reproduction: Make every stage in the signal path as perfect as possible, just like Tom (K1JJ) did in his station. Do not compromise on the linearity of any of the stages as you build up the power level. Once that is completed, then add the Pure Signal to clean up that which is out of reach. (Don't ignore any of that "low-hanging fruit").

Quote from: w8khk on April 14, 2023, 11:48:56 AM

Thanks, John, for your continuing efforts to help us all achieve the best experience from the Hermes Lite II and Thetis. It is only twelve bits, but how many kilobucks does does the Anan take to get just two more? Lite II is truly affordable!

If I may make a couple observations regarding plans for employing "Pure Signal"...

As mentioned previously in this thread, it would be prudent to employ a directional coupler (instead of a simpler line sampler) to complete the PS feedback loop. The software perform more effectively if not confused by the reflected signal component. If your line sampler is placed at a point in the line that is perfectly matched (nil reflected component) then this may be a moot point.

Last, compare this adventure to that of the audiophile (NOT AUDIOPHOOL) endeavoring for the most accurate reproduction: Make every stage in the signal path as perfect as possible, just like Tom (K1JJ) did in his station. Do not compromise on the linearity of any of the stages as you build up the power level. Once that is completed, then add the Pure Signal to clean up that which is out of reach. (Don't ignore any of that "low-hanging fruit").

Hi Rick,
Excellent advice, as always- thanks.
I am pursuing the old school excellence- as per Tom K1JJ has taught me.
I have a gap in power level if I implement the Hermes Lite II, however.
It puts out a maximum of 5 watts and I am considering that 1-2 watts, and I need a maximum of about 50 watts for my single hole 3-500 intermediate amp.
May run something in class A for that, if needed.
Any suggestions on boosting a clean 1-2 watts to a clean 30-50 watts?
73, Mike
PS: Got a confirmation on the Hermes Lite 2.0’plus BPF and enclosure and they say they are in stock. MB

Hello All!

Searching through these 3 posts on this 14 bit board, I see no actual building.

To be honest I haven't really started myself. But that is why I am here. My biggest issue is finding the correct cables or connectors to make up the correct cables.

I believe I can get this project going finding most of the cables and connectors from the piles of parts that I have had on hand over the years, all but the RF micro cables if you will.

These are the ones that will connect the 14 bit board to the 10 watt amplifier board. Does anyone know the exact part name or part number for the one that is needed?

So far all that I think I understand is there are IPX, UFL, MHF3, MHF4 connectors and so on, but which one?

In the pic you will see these used cables to the left within the Bud Box. I will be able to use the connectors or even the actual cables for some of the connections, just simple computer cables.

I am confused about what connector/cable assembly to order. I have been ready to build since I received the board but not knowing all the details pushes me farther away from getting started!
The Community Forum om Apache's web site has helped, but not enough to have the full understanding.

Apache lab will not discuss any technical detail about this 14 bit board since it is no longer in production. So the search continues!

I did notice some links in these post that I will visit that may help a lot, I don't know?

Any comments or information that anyone can provide will be very appreciated. I hope to add pics along the way as long as I have all the parts and as soon as I am confident to start putting everything together!

Anyone have any pics of their 14 bit project?

Thank you,
73
Ken

I have an update and a question on this thread.
In April of 2023, I went ahead with little hope and ordered the Hermes 14 bit tranceiver board and 10 watt amp and had about given up, but received a note from Anan that they were finally getting parts in in Mid-February and would be shipping orders out 2-3 weeks later (March delivery?)
Has anyone else heard from them, of anyone else is waiting?
Hermes 2 Lite has continued to develop, so not sureif this board is better, apart from the 14 bit vs 12 bit architecture providing a wider dynamic range.
Is there an active group associated with this transceiver board, or has interest moved on. Comments please. 73, Mike

The AM Forum

THE AM BULLETIN BOARD => Technical Forum => Topic started by: W1ITT on February 10, 2022, 03:41:07 PM