The AM Forum

Well,

I wrongly assumed that I actually had some of these HN connectors in a drawer somewhere.
Not. :(

I picked up a nice DowKey 310 vacuum coax switch, but oops, those are not N connectors!!
Takes 3 type HN...

Now what?

Well, I checked epay for some, and they seem to think they're made of pure silver or something...
wondering what to do now! No reason to pay 5x the cost of the relay for the connectors. Just plain
silly to do that.

Any help out there?

 :-\

                   _-_-bear

You can ask yourself: how do they mount the existing connectors on the Dow Key? Can I remove them and mount connectors that fit my pocketbook status?
Type "HN" connectors generally are expensive.
Here's a link to the Dow Key catalog with the 310 information:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=2ahUKEwikvJX_5aLpAhUjl3IEHcKhCEsQFjAEegQIARAB&url=http%3A%2F%2F67.225.133.110%2F~gbpprorg%2Fmil%2Fphotoanglo%2FDowKeyCatalogPart4.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0BScvyXdJVCxJ3CNaze1CM

RF Parts have some. I've used these at work, and they work well at 3KW, and using RG-393 Coax:

https://www.rfparts.com/pe4182.html

$32.95 each!

Jim
Wd5JKO

I don’t have anything with HN connectors so I can’t test this but the outer threaded sleeve looks like it might be the same size and thread as an SO-239. If it is, you can probably use a PL-259 with a cut-off center pin that mates by compression to the center pin of the HN. The return loss of the connector will be effected but if it’s for HF it probably won’t hurt.

Yeah... it would be easier to just find 3 at a hamfest in a box!!  ;)

I'll double check it, but to my eyes the threads looked different and the diameter of the HN
larger... there may still be a kludge scheme. Doubtful though.

Pete, I opened one side it was the connections to the switched contacts, soldered and potted under
some really nice clear silicone material. Guess if everything else fails I will have to open the top side
and remove that plate, slightly more complicated... and see what there is to see.

Never really ran into these connectors before in person.

                         _-_-bear

I found three used HN plugs (UG-59E/U) in my junkbox - you'll need to clean out the old cable.
FTGH - Is your mailing address good on QRZ?
Nick

Wow!

Sending you email...

This is a great group of guys!

Perhaps a little late, but I found I had a 1965 Amphenol 3-ring binder catalog in my files. 

Attached is the HN family page:

  Never seen a HN  connector.  They  appear to be rated at  5 kv.   Is there  any other  advantage of a HN  connector  vs a  7-16 DIN  connector ?
Typ 7-16  din  connectors  appear to be rated at  aprx  2.7 kv to  2.9 kv  rms...so maybe add 41%  to obtain peak V.

I did come across a 7-16  chassis  connector that  necks down at the  back end...so it  will fit the  hole pattern of a SO-239   and also a type  N.

I gave up  on  type N's  years ago.... and swapped to  7-16 dins... since they are  readily available for any size  coax.

Jim  VE7RF

For typical amateur radio HF/VHF use I see no advantage to HN or Type 7-16 connectors. UHF, BNC, and N connectors would work fine and you typically don't have to go to the bank and get a loan to pay for them.

RF Parts sells them for $32.95 each. See my post earlier. That might be more then the average Bear wants to pay, but that should not require remortgaging the house. Many that say things like that might also have the latest $5000 plastic radio in front of them along with the matching amplifier.  ;D

Jim
Wd5JKO

As pointed out, the HN's big advantage over the Type N is its voltage rating.  The only time I have used HNs in the ham shack is to bring B-plus from a power supply cabinet to the RF deck.  I have Ns and UHFs everywhere but I used the HN because it would prevent me, in a momentary lapse of my usual keen intellect, from plugging 5 KV into someplace it didn't belong.
But out in the wide world, for low and medium power RF, it's mostly N, 7-16 DIN and UHF for "small" connectors.  In all the communications and broadcast sites I've been at worldwide, I can't recall ever seeing an HN in use.  But it's under control, because I have adapters!
73 de Norm W1ITT

I use the HN's almost every day in the Semiconductor industry. I add a photo of one on a 3KW 13.56 Mhz RF amplifier.

That cable connector is one from RF Parts. The Coax is RG-393.

Jim
Wd5JKO

Ya, but my connectors only cost typically $5 to $10 a piece. $100 for three connectors is not something I would enjoy.  :D  But a $5K plastic radio I would be happy with.

I worked at a high voltage DC company about 12 years ago.  They were using RG-58 coax up to around 22,000 Vdc and RG-8 coax up around 100,000 Vdc as I recall.  The dielectric rating plummets with ac.  These are the solid dielectric coax as I recall.

For a connector with the RG-8 at the high voltages, the SO-239 shell was used and the dielectric and center conductor went on in to a in-house designed mating connector to the center conductor of the coax which had a soldered hemispherical button on the end.  The other end of the coax was a pigtail.

For the RG-58 use, I don't remember.

For ham use with voltages up to 5000 Volts dc, the standard rf connectors may do.  Just don't get the antenna and dc supply cable mixed up!

Next question, so what is the ratings for the BNC, SO-239, and PL-259?

Again, from my 1965 Amphenol catalog, the BNC and UHF family pages.  The voltage ratings are the same for the two.

Someone will have to do a hi-pot experiment with the regular connectors and coax, find the breakdown and de-rate.

After my experience with 6kv to the back of the hand, I only use these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201428258351

15 bucks for more than one.  And it can't be confused with a bnc.

They make higher voltage ones, but I've used these 5kv connectors at twice that.

--Shane
KD6VXI

   It  depends what the  application is.  For larger coax, like LMR-1200/1700 DB,  7/8" and  bigger heliax, the  only 2 x connectors  readily available are   Type N.... and  7-16  DIN...pick one.  Andrew stopped making  UHF  connectors  for 7/8 heliax a long time ago, in the  mid  90's.    If  you have  ever  seen a type N on large coax,  it looks  pretty  silly, with this  huge connector...and  puny  bnc  sized center  pin.   The 7-16 Din  connectors on the large coax/heliax  don't cost anymore than a  type N.

You are  correct though,  good quality, silver plated/teflon dielectric UHF  connectors  are  ample for most  applications,  like  1/2"  heliax /  LMR-600DB..and smaller diameter  cables.

Jim   VE7RF

I used to build with HN's in the past, but have switched over to 7-16 DIN's  

Available cheap, in every configuration imaginable, and will actually tighten up fine without a wrench.  

A helluva lot safer than those miserable Millen jobs, too.

Easier on my ham-fists anyway.

73DG

Way  back, I decided to embark  on this  massive  type N  conversion program..which did not  work  out too  good, the issue  being  captivated, and non captivated pins..which I had overlooked.   I also looked at LC  connectors,  including surplus,  but then  found differences in  center conductor  diam between the old 52 ohm RG-17..and the  newer  50  ohm  RG-218... the 2   are  not compatible for the most part.   A LC  connector is a huge..(and expensive) connector..and was starting to  go out of  vogue in the mid-late 90's..are were  not  readily available for a lot of  coax /heliax  at the time.

Fast forward a bit (I worked for the  telco for 34 years)...and  noticed at some of the cell sites  I looked after  (alarms +  misc  stuff only), our  competition,  ( who shared  some sites, with their own eq  + ants on  our  tower's)   were starting to use  7-16 Dins.   The  7-16  din seemed like an ideal connector, with the  huge center  pin..and the flange on the female chassis  connector, was not much bigger than  a
SO-239.   

So made the  decision to swap  everything to 7-16 Dins.  The xcvr's,and small stuff is  still  UHF though..... everything else,  including  remote ant switches,  several  hb amplifiers,  watt meters, lightning arrestors, hb baluns etc  are  all  din.

Jim  VE7RF

And if 7 16 din isn't big enough, they do make bigger.

And they make smaller.

I have both LC and 7/16 in the shop.  LC into the dummy load, but 7/16 on the output of the amplifiers for 3cx3000 and above. UHF on all 500z and 8877 class.

Good to see ya Jimbo.

--Shane
KD6VXI

Hi  Shane.

They still  make an even  bigger  DIN..called a 13-30.  But  it's  hard  to  find..and  out of  vogue.   Anything bigger than a  7-16 Din....and then  you are  into standard series of  EIA  flange  connectors,  starting with  7/8"..and   at  least  4 more  sizes  bigger,  but that's for
broadcast  stuff.    The  7-16 is  plenty big  enough  (and affordable) for tubes like a  3CX-3000A7 /6000A7 /  YC-156 /  YC-243.

Buddy  bought some  blown cell  site lightning arrestors,  dirt  cheap,  like  $3.00  each.   Small  al  box,  with a female  7-16 on each end..with  gas  discharge tube inside the box.   They just toss em.  At the  time, it was a  cheap  source of chassis  female  7-16  dins.

I'm  still  working on the new 5700/7700  B+  supply  project,  but this  CV-19  has bogged down some projects.  Also just got  100 x  330 uf  @450 vdc lytics (Rubycom)  from  digikey... +  8 x HV  boards  from Harbach  (2  boards per L4PS).  8 x ameritron chimney's  still  on back order from  Ameritron...( and also  12  dpst vac  relays, also from ameritron).   My  4 x ebm  papst  blowers  did arrive, from  digikey.  Same  ones as used in the  AL-1500 amps....  but I got the  230 vac  version.  Drake L4B  blowers now  removed. Hydraulic green  lee  punch, 75mm, new hole in back of each  L4B  RF  deck.   Ends up with double the  airflow  vs oem. (better  for  AM  etc).

I'm  way  OT,  still don't know if I will just hard wire the  B+  on the new  B+  supply..to external   C-L-C  box.... then yet another  B+ cable to  2 x HB RF  decks.... or use some kind of HV connectors (not a millen !).  This  new  supply is dangerous enough as is.  I'm leaning  towards plane  RG-213U..with  braid cut back a good  2-3" at each end.... then a crimped stakon (+ soldered)  on the  center conductor.   Then  cu strap  wrapped, pinched, and soldered  to the braid..... and other end of strap  machine screwed to  chassis  somewhere... same deal at other end of same  HV cable.   Then use those  circular  compression  rubber  devices, forget what they are  called,  u tighten em up... and their ID reduces a bunch, ultimate strain relief..at each end of HV cable.  This would be the simplest, safest  route.  Then maybe  wrap  RED  electrical  tape  around the  213-U...  every few inches   to  signify  it's  B+.

I also installed a B+  voltmeter in the  B+  supply, and also the  C-L-C  box..and also both  HB  RF decks.  Then IF the B+  fuse  (BUSS  HVU-3)  blew open in the  RF deck, HV meter in  RF deck would drop to  zero.....  but still read  5700/7700  in the  B+  supply (and C-L-C  box).  IF both hv meters  read zero... then  I know asap, the HV fuse #2  opened off  (  HV fuse  #2 is wired  between  sec of  dahl xfmr..and diode board,  (in series with just one leg of sec). 

I got  hit  with  4 kv, threw me across the  room..back in  1976,  no  HV meter !   That plus ur getting nailed with  6 kv  months ago..with a millen,  freaks me  out....esp with a 253 lb dahl  +  strings of  10,000uf  lytics.

Later... Jim  VE7RF

Jimbo,

I've seen the 13 30 DIN.  It's a monsterous connector.  But I still like my LC (and they make a VERY similar LC connector type.  That's actually whats on my dummy load.  I bought an LC from Matt in NYC, turned out it wasn't.  He was cool, took it back and replaced it with the correct for the same price.  Only difference was center pin in reality.).  But as you say, they are coming out of vogue.  The LC was what was used on the 3 tube I sent you pics of back in January.  It's also what is on the ends of my 1 5/8.

Look at the HV connector I posted above.  As I've said, I've used it to near 10KV before.  I don't trust it's ability to be held in an open hand at that level.  At 5KV and below, it's said you can hold it in your hand and not have a problem one with it arcing to you.  Yeah, I'm not going to test that "feature".  My buddy with the huge power supply I sent you pics of is using the big version of that connector.  The cool thing about MHV is they install just like a BNC connector.  Takes me about 5 minutes to do the male and female side.  Another one is the old spark plug connection.  It will take way more voltage than we use.  And the shielded spark plug wire makes really good HV wire.  I ran into a bunch of gas discharge wire that is shielded when I was junking the neon signs in a Target store.  It's about the same size as RG-8.  I believe on _amps_ reflector someone had mentioned the typical rating of RG stuff is at AC frequencies.  I dunno, I bought 6KV rated RG59 from ChiCom from the same guy I bought the SHV connectors from.  Fits perfect.  He also sells complete assemblies, you can find him on Ebay.  They also make SHV10k and SHV20k connectors. https://www.rbdinstruments.com/blog/high-voltage-connector-types/

Rebuilding the L4s eh?  I've always had a soft spot for that amp. 

I've had quite a bit of lag on some of the stuff I ordered from ChiCom.  To the point of the companies just refunded my money.....  Two / three weeks later item shows up.  People in China just said keep it, and please order from us again.  They just write it off.

My Dahl is nowhere near that big...  I'm in the 160 lb range.  It still does 5 plus A peak.

You must have finally read my email about K1JJ audio filter.  I tell ya, if you look at his posts, as well as the others in that thread, that does some amazing things without having to have a complete rack of crap.

Sorry about the OT bandwith everyone.


--Shane
KD6VXI