The AM Forum

Anyone out there familiar with the Panoramic Radio Products model SPA-3??
Could not find a schematic on the 'net.

Any leads would be appreciated.

Looks very neat, and I have one coming my way... crazy as that is given that you can do all this with a USB
dongle and a computer these days.  ::)

I have figured out that they were rolled into Singer, and Singer made solid state versions, but mostly these were for microwave freqs. Have found Opcom's schematics, and other Panoramic schematics, but not this model. Read up on the history, etc... fascinating stuff.

See the picture...

... ought to look nifty peachy keen sitting with an r-390 or an SP-600!

Anyone know what these things cost back in the day?

                       _-_-

PS. looks like it draws a stupid amount of power from the wall... :o

Nice piece of equipment. Much more soul than the imaginary facsimile behind a USB plug.

Looks like it needs an outboard power supply. You getting that too?
http://www.recycledgoods.com/panoramic-spa-3-25-spectrum-analyzer-w-power-supply-unit-model-ps-19.html

Yes.

Expect it to draw more than my transmitter!!

But, no manual... :(

             signed,


                   I have a sickness, why do I like this stuff, please help me!!

Good size variable on top of it!

doesn't come with that... that pic is not mine, it's from the Charlotte Hamfest, which is another thread just posted here...

I'll look in my stash of manuals I haven't cataloged yet. I remember seeing a number of Panoramic manuals in there.

Sorry, don't have any info on it.

Thanks for looking - no SPA at all? I see they made an SPA-4 (whatever that was)...

Maybe it will just work when it arrives? Heh.

               _-_-

I have PCA, SA, SB,SSB stuff listed. In the uncataloged stuff, I saw some signal generators and some other stuff under that name, but no SPA stuff at all. A school mate of mine whose father worked for them back in the good old days, said they made lots of equipment and mostly for the military and contract stuff (handful quantities of models).
Good luck with the acquisition. I have a Panoramic PCA-2-type 200. Very similar to Hallicrafters SP-44.

yep. thanks...  tilting at windmills here.

perhaps someone will show up yet... :D

IIRC they of that older type are fussy about supply voltages, but that is a gem there, tune to your I.F. and set the width and see them encroachers!

I have something like that here so let me check the power supply model and see if it is truly the PS-19. - by the picture, it is. Note the similar frequency range as well. It is an SPA-3/25a model.

Perhaps I can help in some way, although I am loathe to give up the unit, it is not in working order and I have not investigated past power-up, but I think the power supply is clear of any major issue and that it is the brain is out of order.

Keep looking for the book though that even the old analyzers are 'simple', to fix/align without the book's help is an arduous task. We can discuss further. If you need power, at the least I can do some checking.  or perhaps more. Do you have any rear-panel cables?

The other important consideration; what is the input IF frequency? Panoramic made some models with unusual IF inputs.

Pete, take a close look at the front panel picture, it says something like 200cps-something mHz.

Patrick, I do have the PS coming with the cable(s).

Yours looks like an updated version, built by Singer.
Neat, think you'll need to fire it up?
slightly different range...
Is it tube or solid state, or hybrid??
Got the book on it??

There will be some investigation involved.
I hoped that you set the center freq (like to 455hz) and then connect it to the IF out, and away you go!?!?

I think you're right. Looks like that center frequency knob has a high and low scale and probably the center knob has a switch to switch between the two ranges. So all you should have to do is just set the center frequency to the receiver's IF.

Typically, the first mixer of a receiver would feed the panadapter. I wonder if there was a way for the output of the panadapter's IF chain to feed back into the detector of the receiver (or maybe even in series with the receiver's IF chain). Then, using the center frequency control and the bandwidth control of the panadapter, you would have a way to shift the IF bandpass to eliminate interference from other  stations and also be able to adjust the bandwidth of the IF to a certain degree.

In poking around the internet, I saw that Tucker Electronics just recently sold a SPA-3A original manual on Ebay.

You set the center freq (like to 455hz) and then connect it to the IF out. The gain for the input and the unit's internal IF can be juggled to make the lowest noise on the display, which should not be an issue with a receiver IF which is a strong signal if the IF output jack is being used.
For this application, with no input and RF gain down (atten max), increase the IF gain (or reduce its attenuation) til there is noise on the base line, then back down a notch for a reasonably clean base line. Then with the RF gain lowest, connect to the RX IF and increase it til you get a satisfactory display. I prefer the log display mode over linear for receiver IF monitoring.

If the receive signal is taken before the receiver's narrow IF and will be lightly coupled, then it will be smaller and more gain will be needed in the analyzer, but of course you get a broader spectrum. You may benefit by increasing the unit's input impedance from 50 ohms to a high value, the possibility and benefit of which depends on the analyzer. It is often a simple resistor network but sometimes is compensated in the manner of an oscilloscope input attenuator on these older units.

One thing you will see is that, whatever the passband of the signal you select from the receiver, that shape will be applied to the display. In purpose-built bandscopes, a circuit is included that peaks up the amplitude at the ends of the sweep or at the sides of the bandpass skirt, to give a display that is better calibrated over the spectrum bandwidth passed by the receiver to the analyzer. This is usually discussed in bandscope technical manuals. It is not a usual characteristic of a spectrum analyzer. I have not found this annoying and I usually set the sweep width to just cover the relatively flat portion of the receivers' bandpass.

The center frequency is coarsely adjusted, esp. around 455KHz, and these old units need to warm up a while because they will drift a bit, but it can be set anywhere up to 27? MHz input center frequency by adjusting that knob. and that's that, for how to use it. Later models such as those with manuals on bunkerofdoom are solid state and have a fine center frequency adjustment. My SPA3/25a seems to be all tubes and I have no book for it. If I had the manual for this I would post it. but I don't have it.

Bear, concern not yourself about the size and power consumption on that unit.

I have a LaVoie SA three times that size... :o...and it probably does less.

73DG

Correctomundo. Now stop tilting at windmills and use one to power the bloody thing. (;->)

I have an original manual coming thanks to eBay - I'll let you know when I have it scanned.
In some fit of insanity, I added one of these monsters to my basement's to-be-resurrected pile.
cheers,
Nick K4NYW
www.navy-radio.com

Oh geez... now there are two of us!! :D

Heh.

Well you'll need to share a picture here of your unit... please do let me know if and when said manual
arrives?

On another note of interest to all, one of the manuals suppliers has their site shut down, say they are closing and have made an arrangement to DONATE ALL of their manuals to Archive.org!! Which ought to mean that pretty much any manual for old stuff will soon be available for a free download, IF and when archive.org orders in some more scanners and slaves to run them...

http://www.manualsplus.com/ (http://www.manualsplus.com/)

...wonder what the actual ETA of these docs will be...?

                         _-_-

Uh, hey Dennis!

Are there any wide shots of your place/gear??
I'm constantly amazed at just what you put up for sale here... would love to see more stuff!!
(you can email me if you don't want to go "public")

                  _-_-bear

Some of the Panoramic products from the 1950's and 60's had a remote control connector on the rear of the chassis,  containing a jumper wire which had to be present to completely power up the analyzer.  If you have a problem powering up, check for an open socket on the rear chassis apron.
73
Chuck K7MCG  (ex N7RHU)

PS  I have many panoramic manuals available, but not the SPA-3.  Sorry

Three of us  ;D Mine should be similar enough to benefit!

PJ

I've gotten started - I have scanned the manual for SPA-3 and SPA-3/25
The schematics are blueprint sized so I'll have to go to FedEx Office tomorrow to scan them.
I have scanned the schematic for the SPA-3/25a. I don't have one for the SPA-3a.
I do have a manual for the "a" versions that I'll scan tomorrow or sometime soon.
But that should give you some reading material. PDF files are at
http://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/test/

Cheers,
Nick

Nick,

Thanks so much for the manual(s)!!
Fabulouso!

My unit arrived today.
Was driving back to the /2 QTH and the Fedex driver was pulling down the block as I was approaching from across the other side of the street that ran perpendicular. Tried to flag him down, but I think he though I was
harassing him! You know, flashing the headlights, waving, honking... caught up to way up the street, and was
able to pull next to him. Rolled the window down - "...hey! you got a package for xxxx  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ave?" Yeah. So I back up and he backs up, and he puts the package in the back of the van!

I'll post some pix as soon as I can figure out WHERE I PUT THE DANG CAMERA!!

The connecting cable came yesterday, which was interesting since it came USPS and was sent out after the 2 big boxes... phew.

                      _-_-

Be sure to read panoramic-spa3a.pdf section 2-9:

2-9. The Model PS-19 power supply is factory
wired for 188-volt, 50- to 60-cycle operation.
In order to provide a stable power source, a
constant-voltage transformer is supplied. This
transformer must be considered an integral
part of the instrument and must be used at all
times. Do not, however, use the transformer
to supply power to auxiliary or additional equipment.
For satisfactory operation of the instrument,
the constant-voltage transformer must
be used only within the input voltage range and
only at the frequency specified on the ·nameplate.
N o r m a 11 y, a 95- to 130-volt, 60 cps
constant-voltage transformer is supplied. The
following voltage-frequency combinations are
available if specified on the purchase order.
Input Voltage Frequency Output Voltage

...

If so ordered, the equipment is supplied
without the constant-voltage transformer,
and is modified for operation from
a well-regulated ±1 p e r c e n t, 118-volt,
50 to 60 cps power source. The power
source must provide the same waveform
as a constant-voltage transformer or, if
the power source provides a distortionfree
voltage, the power supply is appropriately
modified at the factory.

In other words:

- we could not figure out how to make our circuits stable. And, we could not figure out how to regulate the important and critical voltages to keep the unit from drifting. well,  we could have, but that would have added a bunch of tubes, made the stock of transformers we bought useless too... So, we're selling you this bandaid transformer to fix the problem. -

I suspect that for casual ham use, this will prove unimportant, and that for measurement use it needed to drift less with line voltage.

We'll see... once I manage to get the thing fired up and running... I'm not likely to use any constant voltage AC transformers because I dislike the hummmmmm. I'll find a way to regulate or stabilize as needed. Or if needed.

Crikey - you'd think that anyone already using a pair of 6146s and a pair of 12AX7s for the B+ regulator wouldn't be worrying about extra tubes (which would be cheaper than a Sola regulator xfmr anyways). I'm guessing they wanted to regulate filament voltages of the oscillator and RF/IF gain stages so this thing really would be a piece of calibrated precision measurement gear and not just a relative value indicator.
And regulating filaments over a 95-130v ac mains input range ain't easy for a gadget with this many tubes.

Dunno - but to regulate the DC for a select number of those tubes, I'd think that a 6080 or 6336 would do the trick??

Well, we'll find out the real deal if and when the things come to life!

Spent two days searching for those old style twist lock AC connectors. Grrrr... found a whole lot of connectors. Not that one. The thing that BUGs ME is that I KNOW that I saw a few of them a month or so ago. You know "in a box". I saw them and thought to myself, "...well, aren't those the same ones that were on those old PA speakers? Hmmm, well if I should ever need them, here they are..." Right.

It's either go out and buy one at the local electrical supply or change the thing out for an IEC. Dunno, do I want to keep it stock? Do I?  Which is faster and easier, taking out the old twist lock or mounting in the IEC (which seems to fit in the round hole, but the screw centers are of course off by just enough so that you can't simply slip the screws in. Or hauling over to the electrical supply where they can tell me, no, we don't sell THOSE any more...

Yep.

                 _-_-

Is this the connector you're looking for ??
http://www.electronicsurplus.com/hubbell-7484-connector-power-hbl7484-twist-lock-f-3-wire-polarized-15amp-125-250v

73
Chuck K7MCG

Those small twist lock connectors were made different ways.  Some have the center ground pin, older ones didn't.  I think the older ones are obsolete.

Fred

Yep!

But I don't think they'll work unless they are brown bakelite?

I KNOW I have them... Monday I hike to the electrical supply. Tuesday? Tuesday I remember
where the box with them is hiding!!

                       _-_-

well that's a bit harsh, before knowing for sure why this was required. Note the book says 'waveform' also. It is a mystery. Maybe it is just about filament voltage regulation and the closer regulation of unregulated voltages, no big deal. In those days the line voltage was not as stable as it is today.

Very exciting so far.

Fired it up.
Produces nice bright trace.
Sweep rate works fine.
White, long persistence phosphor.
No indication it "sees" the input from my sig gen. :(
But this ought to be fairly straight forward to troubleshoot.
(famous last words, eh?)
One could hope for a dead tube of course.

Have it mounted up on shelves in an aluminum 19" frame rack.
 ;)  Looks boss!  ;)

Looks like this is going to be great fun!!

                         _-_-

Bear has got a trace!  Excellent....

BTW on the p/s conversation, ALL the B+ is already regulated - that's what those two big fat 6146's are doing there in the p/s - none of your dinky little 6336s or 6080s for a manly piece of gear like this one. The HV for the scope tube isn't regulated but that doesn't matter much.

I know where my stash of ole-timey twist locks is - right in that box labeled "TMC power connectors". TMC loved 'em - I don't but I do lunge for them whenever I spot one or two at a hamfest.

Have fun with your analyzer.

Nick K4NYW

AC connectors - here are my notes from an old conversation re: TMC gear -
-------------------
Clarification - the 3-wire grounded-type twist-lock female plug will
NOT work in the 2-wire male receptacle.
The 3-wire plug is larger than the 2-wire.

The 2-wire female twist-lock plug should be a NEMA ML-1R (Hubbell
HBL7464V) - the back shell and strain relief don't look like the old
kind, but should be much better. I have not tried these since I still
have enough of the old brown style.

The 3-wire female twist-lock plug should be a NEMA ML-2R (Hubbell
HBL7593 or HBL7593V) - I am NOT sure about that since two Hubbell data
sheets seem to contradict each other!

See http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/catalogpages/Page-B05.pdf
---------------------------------------

FWIW-
I have a box of old stock Hubbell 7484 Twist-Lock connectors (dated 1980).  I don't know if there were any changes to this design between these connectors and those sold today as HBL7484.

I do know that these connectors will successfully mate with the connectors on the Panoramic SSB-50 analyzer that I sold this week, and on the BC-1031B panadaptor and  Navy REB panadaptor that I can reach this afternoon to check.

Very sorry, but my limited stock is not for sale, unless you have a Panoramic SA-1, SB-1, SA-2 or SA-2A manual (not my scans...) to include in the deal. Just providing this information to try to help.  YMMV.
73
Chuck K7MCG

Hey - I used the official WA1QIX^TM connector system!

Some 3M black vinyl electrical tape and two gen-yew-wine Radio Shack^TM alligator clips + line cord!!

I will mock and shame my stash of twist locks for them to appear!
They may be in your box or drawer of parts, since they likely fell down into the black vortex hole that
moves about my bench, exiting in your box or drawer.

                   _-_-

I believe it is a 5ADP7/A CRT. If so, the white is actually a blue-white, and there is a yellow persistence.
If it's up so bright it really looks white, that is very hard on it.

Use caution as that P7 phosphor has no aluminization and the yellow long persistence part of the compound phosphor is much more easily burned than a regular 5ADP1A non-aluminized 'green' scope tube.

it's a blue white, and not that bright, and it is swept... I'll keep that in mind and back it down a little.
Maybe keep my eyes out for a spare... just in case I get it working!  :P

A day or so to clean off the bench, and maybe I can actually do SOME WORK SOMETIME. Grrrr.

but I am truly excited about the prospect of running this beast!

I've been to my Doctor, but he has no cure, for I've got receiver fever!!

Bear-Boy:

E-mail me a pencil rubbing of that twist-lock job.  Lots of vintage little ones here...

73DG

Dennis, not worth the postage!!
But thanks very much for the offer.

Besides, for now the WA1QIX^TM connection method will suffice.

Send me some of those big bottle tubes instead, alrighty??

                          _-_-