The AM Forum

In case you have a spare $350,000 for a pair, of course then you need matching speakers.

Beautiful construction anyway...

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/704wavac/#EKwuEg2eTZWYyDyM.97

What a waste of good RF tubes. :o

Phil - AC0OB

Absurdity aside, including a (I'm convinced) drug induced, subjective listening report - did you guys review the tester's comments of incredulity over the listening report and look at the tester's report that was performed?  You really cannot replace good, accurate reproduction of music produced by a low distortion amplifier and all the rest of the components with a totally asinine listener's report.

What a bunch of BS by the price and that donkey's tripped out report.  At least the testing was honest and that reporter had his feet firmly planted on the ground of reality

Al

Audio amps with 833s have been around for at least 10 years.

Tons of 833s were used as modulators in 1 kW BC transmitters. Was this a waste of an RF tube?  ;)

Think about it... like most "stupid" purchases, this one is no different.  If you have money to burn, you might buy one just to say you did, or due to the novelty of the thing.  Sort of like buying a very expensive (new) car in some ways.

If you're the seller, you only to sell about 1 a year and you'll be fine.

There is a sucker born every minute  :D  These guys just have to snag the rich ones!

Fwiw, fellow ham, Jerry 'ZUL, out there in Columbus OH, iirc, makes a not quite as expensive but indeed quite pricely 833 amp through a company that he owns... Perhaps it is/was Audio Power? Not quite sure if that was the name or not. But a search of 833 amps ought to pull it up.

Perty certain a well known "4 land" AMer worked for him for a while on that project... fwiw.

                  _-_-


PS. $350k is a bit insane for any piece of audio gear unless it comes with the building??

UPDATE... Here ya go, laddies!

http://www.audiopowerlabs.com/833tnt-monoblock-amplifier/ (http://www.audiopowerlabs.com/833tnt-monoblock-amplifier/)
Only how much a pop?
A mere $175k per pair.
Go for it! :D

http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-power-labs-833tnt-amplifier#jdHlal4UcuTm1PgK.97 (http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-power-labs-833tnt-amplifier#jdHlal4UcuTm1PgK.97)

  I think of these guys who buy Tesla Cars, the plant isn't far from me. They pay a 100K for an electric car that has a 200 mile range and then you have to charge it for ??? hours!! But it is just so GREEN and quite a status symbol if you live in Bezerkeley.

 

WHY?

In my post my point was the remarkable difference between the audio reviewer and the individual who did the testing.  My point was the enthusiastic review by the guy who listened to the amp did not AT ALL square with the actual test results.

The audiophools abound.
They can hear the difference in sound and stereo separation if the plates of the tube are black. It's amazing what the mind can conjure up these days......
I'm happy with less than 1% distortion and hum and noise in 80's...........30-15 kc is more than enough

That 833A amp is a knockout!
If you believe anything is possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0

Lots of palm warmth "RF" radiation in those chi balls.

"I turned around too so they wouldn't know I did it. "

PLUS, this guy needs a check-up from the neck-up!

Well, the truth is - and I speak from the point of view of someone who both knows about "high-end audio" and the engineering & technology as well - that you can hear the difference between things that you would think and expect would make little or no difference. That includes different brands and/or construction in tubes, among other things.

For most people this is a non-starter and makes absolutely no difference. For example if you happen to listen to something like a BOSE Waveradio, then you are not likely to either hear or care one way or the other.

The actual distortion figures make little difference once they are below some relatively high number. This has been shown in a number of published papers. What matters most is the spectral distribution and amplitude relationship between those distortion products.

So when you swap different tubes into some or certain pieces of hi-fi gear in practice ur likely altering that spectrum of distortion.

Two other things definitely happen. One is that as you listen to a given system over and over (likely your system) your brain "decodes" the system better and better. So, you can hear "deeper" into the "sound" than someone who just stopped over. The second thing that definitely happens is that as one actually cleans up or "aligns" their playback system, it becomes more evident and easier to detect subtleties that otherwise went un-noticed or were actually not audible.

In this second case when I say "aligns" I don't mean it like aligning a receiver exactly. Most hi-fi playback systems by definition can be characterized as a series of compromises. But it is feasible to either by design or accident (usually it is accident) to have the system have what we could call for ease of discussion a number of these compromises be minimally compromised. In which case, those things that happen to be reproduced that occur in the auditory areas of minimal compromise are most easily and completely heard and detected. So now small changes that happen to effect those areas start to be quite evident to the listener.

The trick or key to a great system is to find ways to minimize all the most significant compromises (whatever one defines them as, of course - and that is another discussion entirely which is quite complex and involves the search for the "holy grail").

Conversely, a system that is fraught with inherent limitations and compromises none-the-less reproduces something that we recognize as "sound" and "music". But, using my example of the BOSE Waveradio, or the earlier KLH radios, or even more recognizable receiver/speaker combinations, I'm here to tell you that these systems reproduce the basic envelope of sound but more or less "scramble" or "muddy up" most of the details that would be of necessity present if one were going to be able to readily detect any of the aforementioned subtleties or things like changes between tubes or other parts or components.

How do these mega $$ 883 amps do in this regard? How do they fare compared to a home made 833 amp of similar power? How do they compare with much less expensive amps? No telling from just looking at the fine sculptured exterior.

But my message is to not confuse actual "snake oil" and "smoke, lights and mirrors" with bona fide issues that do exist and are wrestled with all the time when one tries to reproduce sound faithfully and naturally.

                          _-_-

 ;D ;D Funny stuff, Jeff.  It all comes down to money.

The acid test:  If any of this mystical stuff worked, the CIA would have these guys locked up so that foreign enemies could not get at the technology.  Treated just like an ET alien with advanced knowledge - a threat to national security.

For example, if Voodoo really worked, they would have hired a Haiti practitioner to take out Bin Laden, Castro and hundreds of other terrorist people that they have chased for years offering $million rewards.

How about phonies who can do remote mind control and kill with their thoughts?  All BS.

If this plasma ball guy could do what he says, he could demand $billions to teach it to the military, FBI agents, CIA agents, etc.  Nobel prize in physics.  The biggest discovery of the century. He wouldn't be scratching out a living on YouTube.

In the 80's they offered  a $100K prize on national TV. They called for anyone to perform a series of tests including telepathy, levitation, water divining, etc., etc.   NO ONE took the prize - all failed miserably.

We live in a crazy whirl...


T

This site may be of interest....                  Feynman v Geller

http://www.indian-skeptic.org/html/fey2.htm





klc

Well stated Bear!
I concur 100%.

http://moersdorf.com/

I've a good friend who makes a living reworking audiophools equipment.   A lot of the people who spend the money on amps like these end up sending them off,  again,  to have them tuned and tailored.

He will tell you privately almost all of it is bs.   Publicly,  another story.   When I asked him about his abrupt two face,  he responded by pointing to his wallet.

I'm sure that different tubes color audio differently.   

To the tune some of these guys claim.....   Uh huh.

Yamaha,  Klipsch and JBL work great for me.
--Shane
KD6VXI

Shane,

Work? Yes, quite so.

But we could compare a good quality new Chevy with something like a Maserati, Ferrari, or a classic Rolls or Bentley, or an IROC race car, NASCAR race car? What's the difference? For daily commuting there's not much advantage to the other cars I mentioned over the Chevy. BUT, if you are driving in a situation where the performance of a particular car actually matters, then you have a different situation entirely.

Some race drivers complain when a tire is high or low a single PSI! Makes zero difference to you or me in daily driving, right? Are they crazy or imagining things?

Similarly, an IROC high performance engine in a Kenworth truck is almost useless. This speaks to the "system" aspect in both cars and audio.

So, why a Lexus, a Mercedes and not a KIA? How about an old VW bug?
Why buy certain tires and not just basic Firestone or Goodyear?

The analogy is not an exact 1:1 for audio but I think it serves to illustrate the idea.

                            _-_-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-x-12ax7-ECC83-Amperex-Bugle-Boy-Tubes-Long-Grey-Plates-MC4-Foil-D-Getter-/371491640916?hash=item567ea09654:g:0QAAAOSwl9BWKSr5

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2008/11/most-expensive-speaker-cable-world-audioquest-audiophile/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Electric-NOS-2uf-2mf-600V-DC-capacitor-Pair-for-tube-amp-/161893327560?hash=item25b19822c8:g:klQAAOSwkZhWT1hW


Years ago at CBS Television, an engineer friend was going nuts over "Monster Speaker Cable".. He had a homebrew 300B single ended amp, home made horns, and a Stanton straight needle turntable.. It was GREAT after a few beers listening to the whopping 8 watts with black lights and the expert friends dropping by..

So, I "designed" a Monster Cable of my own using 1/8" soft drawn refrigerator copper tubing (well oxygenated) from the local hardware store. I shrink wrapped the entire mess and hooked it up to his system one cold winter night.. The total cost at that time was less than 20 bucks, and my audiophile pal used my "Monster Cable" touting his "genius engineer friend" and his cool design..

I never told him that ACE Hardware was the audio genius.   :) 

and da beat goes on..

If PWD was still around, I'd bet you could order the iron from him, including the OPT.
And why bother with this single ended stuff? For that money I want some power.

That is probably a 40 mile range in Texas in summer stop and go traffic. The largest obstacle to electric cars in hot climates is the 3-5KW continuous load for the A/C.

In modern cars, the EPA has been regulating our comfort by mandating ever-smaller volumes of refrigerant and lower energy drains from car air conditioners, and this translates into smaller condensers and compressors, accumulators, and the like.

The electric car can hardly improve upon this because it need those inconvenient joules for locomotion.

  My sister lived in Corpus Christi for a year, I made a visit in April that year for about 10 days. The AC in her home was on the entire time and a  few days were REALLY HOT.

  I asked her "What is it like here in August??!!" her answer... "You don't want to know!!"