The AM Forum

Just got my technicians and while looking around at stuff other than 2m I became interested in 6m am on tube rigs. I've got a supposedly working clegg 99'er and also a d-104 shipping off ebay. I've read mixed opinions about the 99'er but it fit the budget. I've been told there is a little 6m am activity so I'm hoping to make some contacts.

I'm new to radio but I do have a little electronics experience. I'm just hoping I didn't bite off more than I can chew with and older radio!

Well time to start building an antenna :)

John,

Welcome to amateur radio & AMfon.net. I don't have any experience with Clegg gear, but I'm confident that you will be hearing from some here who are familiar with the '99er.  Keep us posted on your Clegg & antenna.

73,
Brad

Hey John..ya found a gud source of info/help by being here..terrific bunch of experience is available..on the 99'er..I did own one way back when..was kinda sorry to let it go at Deerfield..ran about 4-5watts out or maybe slightly less but the audio reports on the modulation were always gud..not sure if plate modded..I think it had a 4 number final and my collection has a box marked Clegg..a 7558..if not then it might have been a 7360..let's hope not as the 7360 has a BIG price tag!..great sensitivity..it will need a Hi-Z mic..better if that D-104 is not amplified type..hopefully ur xtal element is still gud in that mic..you will need for sure a xtal for the rig..8.400 will give ya 50.4 the AM yakking freq more commonly used but ya already knew that I'm sure..there is an active group here in York County in So. Me that often if not daily get on that freq mentioned on AM..even the TimTron has joined in from up in Scowtown..if there ever was a matching VFO for that I'm not aware as most folks used a HG-10 or various others from Gonset or whatever..just look for 8mhz in xtals if ur goin' rock bound..have fun and welcome aboard!   73 de DAVE

Thanks for the welcome Brad and Dave!

Dave, the d-104 I think is the non amp model but the seller wasn't really knowlegable. I did read about the element failures but I got it for $19. I figure worst case I can modernize it and then use a transformer. The hardest part or this for me is making due with very little testing equiptment!

Not sure if I'm gonna go VFO or stay with crystals. Was tossing around the idea of using a DDS.

Excited to hear that there is some 6m activity near by!

The 99'er uses a 7558 tube for the final so output typically is around 5 watts. A 4 or 5 element beam up around 30 or 40 feet at least should give some decent coverage. The receiver is broad so having accurate frequency accuracy (DDS-type stuff) really isn't necessary. However, if 6 meters is your only AM band, you generally will be lonely. AM activity perks up during band openings (Sporadic E) but that generally happens from roughly late May through mid Aug. Sometimes we get spurts of band openings in December but they're generally not common or great. I recall not too long ago, a member (I believe from FL) here got on 6 meters and it took him 1 1/2 years before he made his first 6 meter AM contact. I've been on 6 meters since almost the beginning of time, and it's a fun band with lots of wild and crazy propagation characteristics but lots of patience is required.

It's just something to have on while I'm messing about and while I study for my general. I was thinking of using the DDS for the tx side. I've also read there was a mod to slave the tx and rx but I can't find anyone who's done it. I'm going to bring that up in the tech section thouh because I just got my radio and it is missing the freq crystal. :(

All I can says is I repaired a 99'er and it was really pretty easy to work and tune on so you will enjoy it!

Hey Opcom! I'm glad to hear it. I do love tinkering and I think that this radio is gonna be a great one to learn some stuff with.

Clegg made some really nice VHF gear. The Thor is a little nicer rig, the Venus will do AM & SSB, and of course the Zeus & Interceptor run both 2 & 6 meters with a potent signal.

But as Pete said - patience is the key. Unless you find someone locally to talk with, you'll need to leave the rig on constantly and might be listening for some time before you hear another station or make a contact.

I'd try stirring something up locally just to try it out.

Good luck with it, have fun, and welcome to the group.

What type of antenna are you going to build?

I have a lot of fond memories of the 99'er: it was my first "Store Bought" transceiver.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

• The power meter samples RF from the output circuit, and is sensitive to SWR, so it will change with the antenna and feed line length. It's OK for relative measurements, but don't expect repeatability when you work on the antenna.
• It's common to replace the rectifier tube with diodes, and if you do that you get a few extra watts of output.
• The rig will take either 8 or 12 MHz crystals. Back in the days of NTSC TV, 12 MHz rocks would save a lot of TVI complaints. Now, it's nice to know if you find some 12 MHz crystals at flea markets.
• Some hams used "Tubeless" VFO's with the 99'er, but they had a lot of trouble with drift, microphonics, and general instability. Don't ask how I know! ;-)
• If you make any mods, I recommend putting a trimmer cap across the crystal socket so you can "net" your 50.4 rock and save the other hams in the net the trouble of retuning their receivers all the time.

Good luck! It's a great little rig!

W1AC

I know there are some better option but for now I have everything I need to put together an end fed dipole that I can hang between my house and a tree. I live on the coast so I should be able to point it along the coast line and get pretty good coverage I hope.

I did do a lot of googling but there is so much on antenna design it makes my head spin. Gonna try to keep it simple for now.

J,


Try a center fed dipole and let the coax hang down below. Tell everyone its a clothes line --  your saving the planet from global waring --

Your ant is going to be around 9 1/4 feet long. Letting the feedline hanging 5 or so feet down won't really hurt things.

Watt I did , a long time ago, was to staple some 14 awg THNN onto the shake siding and  threaded the coax down into the shack. The miracle antenna was invisable!! The ant wasn't more the 8 or 9 feet above the ground. Worked into Wash and Ca this way.

Welcome to the heartbreak of 6.


klc

In VHF, there's a saying: "Height is Might". A dipole isn't likely to produce good results on six meters, especially with tree leaves around it. I recommend that you pick up a used Squalo or similar omnidirectional, horizontally-polarized antenna, and get it at least ten feet higher than any surrounding obstructions.

You'll thank me later! ;-)

W1AC

That's what I was afraid of. It's going to be interesting getting up high enough. I live on top of one of the taller hills around but I also have a row of ancient maple trees on my property. There is a small opening between them that I was hoping to sort of aim the dipole between. It's in the direction that most of the activity around here will be. I will keep an eye out on ebay for a Squalo or maybe try to build something similar.

Getting this radio makes me want to change my callsign to KC1EGG

I'm liking the idea of the Squalo. Think I'll try building one.
http://www.pa3hcm.nl/?p=312

But my next question is how do I hide it from my wife?  ;D

J,


" But my next question is how do I hide it from my wife? "

Buy her a new car. That should get you one antenna.


klc

 ;D Well that would cover the antenna purchase but what about the 100' tower I'm erecting in the back yard?

It's already taken.

Ha  ;D figures.

Speaking of 6 meters....... here's a map of beacons in and around NA.

http://www.k9mu.com/map/ (http://www.k9mu.com/map/)

Cool there's one like 10 miles from where I work

It's a good tool to figure out where the band is alive.

If you go to the 6 & 2 meter forum pages here, http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=34146.0, the 50 MHz activity map in real time gives a visual of 6 meter activity all over he world.

Ha! You are new to this!

Just off the top of my head, and this tape will self destruct in ten seconds:

• It prevents lightning strikes, darling
• Honey, I asked a feng shui shaman to balance our exterior decoration, and she told me I needed it to provide a welcoming plictaff for the great utrsa.
• Baby Cakes, that's a field balance distributor which prevents my radio from overloading your cell phone!

You'll get better as you progress in Ham Radio: the key is to think long-term. Here are some other things you'll find handy to know.

• The next time you get a raise, don't tell your wife: just keep putting the old take-home amount in the joint account, and the rest in your ham-radio piggybank. ;)
• Whenever your wife says she wants to see a new TV show, tell her that it requires a special antenna mounted on a fifty-foot tower, and that the whole thing costs too much for just a TV show.
• When you want a new rig, wait until there's a flea market nearby, and tell the wife what you're going to spend, and make a deal that she can spend that much on herself. Then, get the rig you want, and put a sticker on the box that says "Discount - returned unit", and brag about the great deal you got. Don't forget to take the agreed-on amount out of the joint account!

(Brief puff of smoke comes from your screen)

W1AC

"    ;D Well that would cover the antenna purchase but what about the 100' tower I'm erecting in the back yard?     "



          Doomed.             You are doomed.

      KLC

With your 100 foot tower you would not be limited to a single ten meter stealth dipole/clothesline.  A few slopers with pulleys at the top and bottom, and you could dry clothes for the entire neighborhood. 

HA! Thanks Ernest! I memorized the list before it destructed. I just hope my wife hasn't bugged my computer  ;)

KLC, we are all doomed but I prefer to go out in a blaze of exploding tubes when I do  ;)

So I've got a crystal coming and my mic should be here on Friday. Looks like I've got some soldering and testing coming up in the near future.

So, aside from clegg, who else made 6 meter toob radios? Inexpensive(now) easier to repair?

RSWL............

Well, the question is more like "who didn't ...?

Let's take a trip down memory lane:

• Heath "Sixer" (Regenerative receiver, but surprisingly good performer)
• Gonset G-50 and "Gooneybox"

• Radio Shack HA-460
• Knight-Kit T-60 transmitter with Ameco nuvistor converter for the receiver.
• Johnson 6&2 transmitter with Ameco nuvistor converter for the receiver. (I had them: that transmitter put out serious power!).
• Heath SB-110 (SSB/CW only)
• Drake TR-6 (AM, SSB, CW)
• Collins 62S-1 Transverter (Made for the S-line)

There are others, so I'll ask the other hams to chip in.

W1AC

Heath "Sixer" (Regenerative receiver, but surprisingly good performer)
Personally, worthless as a real radio

Gonset G-50 and "Gooneybox"
Gonset Communicator II, III, IV

Radio Shack HA-460
It's a Lafayette HA-460; also HE-45 series

Knight-Kit T-60 transmitter with Ameco nuvistor converter for the receiver.
Johnson 6&2 transmitter with Ameco nuvistor converter for the receiver. (I had them: that transmitter put out serious power!).

Heath SB-110 (SSB/CW only)
Had issues; stick with a SB-110A

Drake TR-6 (AM, SSB, CW)
Doesn't fit inexpensive

Collins 62S-1 Transverter (Made for the S-line)
Doesn't fit inexpensive

Hallicrafters SR-46 or SR-46A, also made transverters

Utica 650 or 650A

Heathkit made numerous (cheap in today's market) 6 meter rigs

Thank you for your replies.

Doing a quick search on ebay turned up very few 6 meter radios. Those that were advertised were in rough
shape and overpriced.
I guess most of these rigs have gone to their glory or are mouse hotels.

Cheers, Roland.............

There are other places to buy radios: Hamfests, QRZ, QTH, Eham, For SAle/Swap forums, etc. Don't limit yourself to ebay. Post a WANT request on our forum.

Welcome John.  You will want a 3 element beam (best with a rotor) up in Wiscasset and aim it toward the PWM area where most of the activity is on 6.  A halo is a great antenna too.  A bunch of us around here built some halos together.  It is nearly an omni antenna. 

There is a group on most mornings and evenings on 50.4.  Get a crystal if you want to use the Clegg.  Most of the ops use vintage gear and those who dont deal with it.

The 99'er works fine.  It does require a significant warm up time...20 minutes at least.  It also does not have a squelch or limiter.  Its a bare bones radio,  The Gonsets are my favorites but there are others.  If the price is right use the 99er to start.  If not go to Nearfest and look for one of the Gonsets.

I'll start listening in on 6 as the WX cools.  The season is upon us :) :)

6 is a great band and can prepare you for how to work on the HF bands.  There used to be a bunch of people "trapped" on 6.  But the codeless HF tickets freed them to move to HF.  This left a vacuuuuum on 6 to some degree.  Here in this area as noted, there is a pretty active group still around however.


Cheers,

Peter
~ps

Radio update:
Got my crystal for 50.4, got my mic and am going to get it wired up this weekend. I'm going for the Squalow that I can set out on my roof on a tripod for now and see what kind of results I can get.

So my next question is what are my options for testing the output of this rig? I thought the simplest solution was a receiver but there seem to be few modern reliable ones on 6 meter. The ones I saw where HF/6M and waayy out of my price range.

Hey Peter, maybe you'll be my first contact on 6!  :)

If you just want to see if it outputs any power, connect a 15 or 25 watt light bulb to the antenna terminals and adjust for maximum brightness. Back in the "good old days" most amateurs didn't have any real jazzy power output meters. If you get the mike wired up, when you talk into it, the light will undulate as you speak.

Just wanted to thank everyone for being so helpful and friendly here!

I wired in my mic and found some broken solder joints that I repaired in the radio. After a 30 min warmup the radio seemed to stabilize and I could "spot" the recieve to the crystal. Tuning around I picked up some code on the lower end of the band! Very exciting! I am having some mic element issues you probably saw me posting about but I have a good feeling I'll be on the air soon!

Thanks again everyone!

Does the SWAN 250C qualify as a good candidate for 6 meter AM? Anyone ever use one?

Thanks,RSWL

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/11102
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=4240.0

Sounds like a good rig but I've never had any Swan radio so it's just what I see on a google search.

It looks like it's SSB though with some option you could get to do AM?

Spec sheet says "side band with carrier" at 75watts for AM operation. Is this cheating?

RSWL....

I was just reading about that. Not sure exactly what they are talking about so hopefully someone more experienced will chime in. Might have better luck opening a new thread in the tech section.

Here's a shot of the Utica 650 Pete referenced, w/VFO to get around the crystal issue. These show up fairly regularly at hamfests for short money. In fact, I turned down a free one a few years back in good shape. The one in the photo came from a well-known 6m AMer in the northeast, Big Al/K1JCL, who used to operate a 6m AM repeater.

Also a shot showing some of the other Clegg 6&2 gear.

Nice! I just saw one of the Utica 650s on ebay last week I think.

Swan 250's, and even the 250C's, are well known for their drifty oscillators. Set the receiver at one location and  signals will just drift on by. I believe it's AM only on one sideband and probably through a crystal filter. Probably not a good choice if you're looking for a higher power decent quality AM rig. I had a 250C for a few months several years ago. Besides the drift, after a short period of operation, you could fry eggs on the cabinet. Found it a new home.

It's just another way to make a sideband rig put out an "AM" signal: the balanced modulator is slightly unbalanced, and some small percentage of the carrier is allowed to radiate along with one sideband.

IIRC, Collins did the same thing with the KWS-1, using inserted carrier for AM, with only the upper sideband.

W1AC

J,

That is the perfect situation to put up a stack of four 1/2 wave horizontal 6M dipoles. This would give you a broad horizontal pattern broadside and give you a vertically compressed lobe towards the horizon with ~6 dB of additional gain over a single dipole. Best antenna for "line of sight" locals and DX due to the low vertical takeoff angle.  Space them about 9 ' apart  and that's 27' of total vertical space.  Mount them as high as possible.

The top dipole strung as high as possible between the maple tress made of strong wire, will hold up the three stacked dipoles below it using insulators and rope.  

You can use either open wire or coax to phase/connect them. I won't get into the details now, but this would be a stealth antenna and give you a pretty healthy signal if done right. Cheap too.  Yes, the trees have some attenuation effect, but 6M isn't that bad compared to the higher UHF bands. And, in the Winter, no leaves.

T

Thanks for all the input.

One last question, (I swear) Heathkit Seneca 120 watts On AM. Good, no good, OK with modifications?

Thanks, RSWL

The 120 watts is input power. You could probably get about 40 watts peak on 2 meters and maybe 75 or 80 watts peak on 6 meters. The modulation was carrier-controlled. Also suffered from lots of drift and even more so on 2 meters. Cabinet designed to match the Apache/Mohawk and similar boxes of the era.

Thanks Pete and others who have so generously answered my questions.

The Seneca reminds me of a 2/3 scale Apache. The mod scheme is similar to the DX-60, etc. It could be modified in a similar manner and sound fantastic. I wish I still had my Seneca.

Ah, yes.....the good ol' Swan TooDrifty. Just wait a few minutes, it might drift back by. Even in a time when some drift was still expected and tolerated, this thing was pretty marginal.

As to the Seneca, WA2PJP who is a member here has one that he rebuilt from the ground up, addressing any issues along the way. He'd be a good one to talk with for anyone considering setting one up. Not a bad set from the little I've seen. Definitely better than a Sixer!