The AM Forum

After having my new storage building put up, I found a mouse. I hate them. They get in things and are really nasty. Was not able to catch or kill it, yet. I know it sleeps in the building, but goes out to eat the grass or whatever they eat. There's probably more than one.

I want them gone but don't want to use poisons or traps because I don't have time to inspect those things every day and those methods can harm innocent animals. I used a glue trap in my garage and caught a huge rat, no need to check that trap as his squealing was enough to wake the dead. Huge vicious angry rat with 3/4" long snapping teeth. But I still had to kill it with a 22, and truthfully I do not want to kill animals except for food or protection and I felt bad about this because the rat was helpless. The glue trap is also very cruel if the pest is left to die there of thirst or starving. I don't want traps of any kind in the garage because my pet cats sometimes slip past me into the garage, a space normally forbidden to them.

I'd rather have a feral cat do the whole job for me. Maybe if the cat lived here or slept here, in a little back yard shelter, then the mice and rats would not hang around. There are a few feral cats around, but how to get them to bed down in my back yard? Feed them, and they just learn to come sit on the porch and act all nice and meow for you, then they gobble down the food and leave, and the mice are not bothered because the predator does not hang around.

I don't know where these scrappy cats live, where their nests are. under porches? Where do feral cats live/sleep? Must be places they are hidden and safe from the feral dogs, bad boys with rocks, and other things that would prey on them. Started looking for cat house.. well that was wrong. cat 'shelters'. google images for feral cat shelters gave good results. I'm going to try to make up one or two and see if one of my 'guest felines' will decide to use it as a crash pad and hang around. Thing is, once I give a feral cat an outdoor 'house', then I got the obligation to feed and water it every day just like an indoor pet, right?

Anyone got a better idea for preventing mice and rats? Just keeping them away would be OK. I'm not demanding their deaths but they can't be allowed in my new building.

I went through a mice invasion last summer. Just incredible. 

Most effective were traditional bait foods and the largest size glue traps.  Surprisingly the poison food often weakened their senses causing them to be less likely to evade the glue traps.   Small glue traps were almost all evaded. 

No-touch kill traps baited with peanut butter & bacon grease worked in the first go around with 3 of about 9 making catches. After the first few days the mice avoided all the rest.

Mice would kill and eat us if we were small enough.  Sentimentality has no place in the war against pests.  The damage and health dangers don't allow for emotions.

Even house pet cats will kill and eat mice.  My cat catches all types of little critters.  When I had a few additional cats they once cornered a deer and tried to bring it down.   If you have house cats I'm surprised you have mice in the same area.  I would make them earn their keep.  I would not use any type of poison because of other animals and pets that might eat it.

Fred

Death by Anticoagulant is the only way to go.
Bleeding out is actually too good for those evil critters!
Works pretty good on the mice too.   ;)

Seriously, if you use rodenticide, its advisable to keep some Vitamin K1 on hand in case your furry friend decides to eat some of it or eats the critter that bled out from it.

I have barn cats but they really aren't sufficient to keep the mice away, particularly during harvest when the critters abandon the fields and look for a winter home.  After having them create a problem with the fuse center in my pickup I have been using both traditional mouse traps (and they make bigger ones for rats).  I check them every evening during harvest but during the rest of the year I replace the piece of cheese about every 2 weeks when it presumably becomes less attractive.

You can get enclosed anti-coagulant baits which other animals cannot get into but it still wouldn't be good for your cats to feast on heavily dosed mice so I avoid those.  I don't care for the glue traps, I don't like mice but those do strike me as being quite cruel unlike the instant death snap traps.

  My shack is in a separate building from the house. For the past 14 years I have had a cat, Tom, living in the shack for mouse prevention. Up until about a year ago that worked fine. Poor Old Tom is now 16 years old and is not the mouser he once was. I am trying no-touch traps which do help allot. I have tried the ultrasonic units, but they don't seem to work in this environment. I won't put poison out there.
  I do have an outdoor cat and two neighbor cats that hang in the yard. I still get mice and one other thing; local vermin such as raccoons, opossum and groundhogs that will eat any food left out for the cat. As far as I am concerned they are just big rats. Living in the city with close neighbors a 22 is just not practical. CO2 powered pellet pistols with hunting points are not tough enough for the job even at a range of 15 feet. Next is a pellet rifle with a higher muzzle velocity. I usually trap and dispose of several each year but can’t keep ahead of “production” with just trapping.
  One other thing about your feral friends, get them to a vet for shots and to be fixed. They tend to breed similar to rabbits and you don't want bit by a cat under any circumstances. The bites can really get infected easily. But I think you have a cat so you know that already.
  Good Luck!   Bill

As far as the 'wild' cats, I wonder watt the oder problem would be ?

"...  with close neighbors a 22 is just not practical. "

Not even 22 LR Number 12 shot shells ???  Run around $10.00.


klc

22 quiet rounds can be equally or quieter than an air pellet gun.

I have the subsonics. I guess I have no choice. If I let the mice or rats go, they will come back. They are destructive, nasty, and spread disease. I can encourage an outdoor cat to hang around, but some of the clean /no touch traps might be better to get rid of an existing problem the feral cat may not have access to.

My indoor cats are not allowed out, they are old or debilitated. but there are no rodents in the house.

I use a 4 legged indoor/outdoor trap as well as snap traps with peanut butter. She earns her keep. The snap traps are used in places around the yard where she can't access as well as other pets that roam through.  The snap traps seem to work for voles and moles too.

I once had a rat problem under a concrete slab in a wood shed. I had some copper sulfate crystals that are used for treating swimming pools and electroplating around. I used nice size potatoes, quartered them and soaked them in a copper sulfate solution that I brewed up. The potatoes turned greenish blue after a few days but still smelled like potatoes. I put them under the slab and the rats eat them. I never saw another rat in there again. No other animals seemed to be interested in them as a food source. Maybe they would work on those dag burn mouses?

RAT RESIPIE

Measure 3 ounces of copper sulfate crystals and add to 1 quart of water. They will dissolve in a few hours. Stir in quartered potatoes and soak for 72 hours. Place generous amount of potatoes in problem area. Guaranteed to kill rats.

My two cats which are indoor-outdoor tabby's take care of the critters. They have a cat door in the basement. They get moles voles mice and the like constantly and consistently depending on the time of year,  but also take ground birds and chipmunks. I have only seen them kill one full sized Grey Squirrel and one small rat but they got several flying squirrels one summer.

I hear a potato stuck on the end of the barrel is quieter still...  :D

T

My cats were also able to shoot down some flying squirrels.  But, their aim wasn't that good and after they hit the house a few too many times, I had to take away their small caliber anti-aircraft guns.  I let them keep the search-lights.

I'll have more unbelievable cat stories later tonight.

Fred

                     
                   " copper sulfate crystals "


Not only do the rats die, they help improve ground conductivity.


klc

I agree that poison is out, I use it under houses where I am sure that the cats won't get in and eat the mice/rats that eat it.  Best bet is to stuff all cracks etc with steel wool. The rats/mice can't eat through it,  it has to be all holes they will get in if they have any opportunity.

 If they are hanging around in your yard they have a food source close.  Don't leave pet or birds feed our or anything else near the house/shack. clean up any habitat wood piles,  boards etc. and try to get neighbors to do the same. 

  If using a .22 buy CB caps (no they are not found on  11 meters) they are less loud than my .22 pump up air rifle. There are air rifles with built in suppressors They are probably the best solution if you buy one you will want a scope.  the problem is you have to stay up late to catch the wee beasties when they are running around. If your going to shoot them put out bird seed at a spot with a good backstop and spend an hour or so at dusk doing pest control.

With out poison its not a one item stop but a control plan that includes many things. 

Some varieties of snakes are also voracious consumers of mice, one of the many reasons I take care not to hurt those around the "farm" here.   It helps that the snakes common to this area aren't venomous although my wife still hates and is terrified of them regardless of variety. 

Several years ago I was returning from a hamfest and I had an armload of radios.  There was a large Prairie King snake on my doorstep and I planned to step over it and then move it once I put the radios down.  It had other plans and quickly slithered between my legs through the door, down the hall, and into the family room.  I caught it as two cats were fleeing while the Siamese went into full attack mode.  It was safely relocated out in the pasture and fortunately my wife was out.  I swore my daughter to secrecy about that little incident :)  Two years previously I had to make an emergency run home from the office because while my wife was cooking dinner my then two year old daughter found a garter snake in the family room that got transferred in with the potted plants.  The poor snake was trapped under a large stock pot with about half of my wife's very large book collection on top until I rescued it and put it with some other potted plants in the warm part of the barn.  I think my wife had nightmares for weeks over that little slithery guy.

I have had rats and mice get in my shack.  They pee and poop all over everything, eat through my cables and pretty much destroy whatever they can.  I do put poison out.  I have no pets and the shack is in a locked shed out back.  Once I caught a rat snake sitting on the law mower side with three nice lumps in his belly.  I let him stay.  There is a neat homemade trap that I've seen.  You take a big bucket and half fill it with water.  Drill a hole in each side near the top and place a pipe through it.  Loose so it can spin.  Then place peanut butter on the middle part of the pipe.  The mice try to get it, fall off and into the water.  I have no use for them.

Even easier  than the above trap.
Place a smear of peanut  butter as far down the neck of a 1 liter wine carafe as your finger will reach.
Place carafe  upright, positioning  the neck near an object the mice can climb
  Mice fall in but they can't jump back out.

FWIW, one can find the ingress/egress of the little ones by the use of a UV lamp. The piss fluoresces when exposed.  If you look closely, you may also see the grease that they leave behind. Its the color of tobacco juice.

I've got a few 23uF 4KV oil cans that could be used in lue of traps. A bit of peanut butter, and it'll be over quicker than Phils Valient.  You'll probably  get more than one with one charge. SNAP!


klc

Ok I found those home made 'spinning cylinder bucket traps' on youtube. I think I'll try that. How certain is it the mice will smell the peanut butter all the way from the rotating pipe, and be led to it?

These work well...

http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/ketchalldrowningattachment.aspx

with or without the drowning jar attachment.

If you use the drowning jar all you do is dump the dead mice and water in the toilet and flush them.

The big question is should that potato be registered with CSP? :D

Try putting down light colored gravel from the edges of your building outward 4-5' or so.  It exposes the critters to predators as they cross and have no place to hide.

Scott

I believe the mice have departed. There was a nest and evidence of reproduction. Yes there were more than one so good riddance to the nasty pests.

The simple solution was to open my gate and feed the 'stray' tomcats and the little lady cat in my yard near the building for a few days. The implied threat seems to have been sufficient. That and a little territorial cat-marking on the concrete block piers supporting the building. I have an 8 FT redwood fence, well weathered, but the cats never climb it and the mice were therefore cozy.

Finally to make sure all the mice are gone or dead, I bug-bombed the closed-up building. It works on mice and rats if you use 3x the bombs and they are the 'raid fumigators' -others don't work and leave an oily mess. It kills mice dead or runs them out.

It may pay me to get out the sawzall and cut out the lower 8" of a single fence plank on each side of the yard so that the stray cats are encouraged to pass through or loiter. A dog-free zone for them too. (How would I keep small dogs out, like chihuahuas??). A stray cat could escape danger through the hole, and use the space under the building for some shelter. And I wouldn't have to hunt rodents.

I may sacrifice a couple of old wooden military crates for a cat house. The crates seem a little rotten, no collector wanted them but they would be OK for cat shelters. And the mentioned female cat is pregnant so I want to help her. I really want to spay & release, but have no support doing it, she is very wild and I'm not sure she would be manageable in the bathroom for 2 weeks til the stitches dissolved.

I like the cat sanctuary plan...if a Chihuahua manages to get in, the cats can handle it and it may provide an alternate food source. ;D

You can also throw in a few 'mole bombs' and gass 'em....  Its the right thing to do.


klc

  or there is.....
http://donarexios.blogspot.com/2012/06/cowboy-cat.html

I use a version of this at the cabin. Work as advertised!!!

 Mouse Trap Images  (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=5+gallon+bucket+mouse+trap&id=991893DD87E3B10BCA0DAF318B824E776A1715F5&FORM=IQFRBA)

The roller traps were the next step and I'd saved a small plastic Folgers coffee jar. No poison or pet-harming traps, and cat's don't like peanut butter. Most cats I guess. There is always one waiting to prove a human wrong. yeah cat sanctuary, but I don't want to have 22 of them outdoor cats again!  The mother cat and maybe the two old tomcats are welcome.

I had a meese problem many years ago and tried the poison technique...bad idea! They went back to the nest, which was unfortunately, in the wall under the kitchen sink.  The whole gang croaked in there and the stink was 40 over 9. javascript:void(0); I got lucky and found the nest with the first hole I cut in the wall. Now we use the old fashioned spring trap with a little piece of "French fried potato for bait.  Works every time javascript:void(0);

Ken / K2UPI

I spent the summer in Montana the year before last, as a radio dispatcher at the Glacier National Park. I had occasion to be in the "Back country" once, visiting a friend at one of the ranger cabins - a place so remote that everything has to be carried in.

We sat on the porch in the late evening, and I was about to expound on some important point of something-or-other, when the wolves started to howl on the hilltops around us.

Trust me on this: television does not carry the sound of wolves howling - at least, not the way you hear it in Montana, miles away from electric lights and electric music and electric amplifiers. It is an other-worldly sound, so elemental and fierce as to strip away, in an instant, the veneer of civilization and education and preconceived notions about "Right" and "Wrong".

I knew, at that moment, at the core of my being, that those wolves would eat me if they could. Nothing personal. Nothing vicious. Nothing but food for their pups and for themselves in a place where they are the apex predators.

I use spring traps for mice: they work well and there's no chance of their corpses sticking up the place.

I don't worry about it much: in my house, I am the apex predator.

Bill, W1AC

In the greater scheme of things, you would probably have more to fear from rodent carried disease than from the wolves.... ..

I like to sit on the front porch and listen to the coyotes on a moon lit night.


klc

I have this here. They play non-classical music and talk real loud while drinking, right?

The mice might have gotten in through a little hole. It is amazingly about 3/8" rectangle but there are chewing marks. I am guessing the hole was attractive and they chewed the wood a bit to fit themselves in. Now plugged with steel wool and some silicon glue behind it so it can't be pulled out easily. Let them eat that!

I hope tomorrow to create the cat holes on my fence and at least a rudimentary shelter.
The lady cat has been coming here to eat twice a day, meowing a lot, eating every morsel, and getting BIG!! Maybe a week or two? They take 9 weeks.

On the other front I think I'm getting covert age/disability discrimination (>50), and when I do get an interview followed by an offer it's real lowball entry level pay I can't live on even after austerity measures to my household budget. WTH. I guess it is tough times for all job seekers.

And we're done. Two weeks of discussing pest control on a radio site is undoubtedly more than enough. I'm sure they're all shaking in their fur by now.

As a general list reminder, outlined in the 'How to Use' the QSO section:

"There are far better sites on the internet to get answers on computer problems, non-radio consumer electronics purchases, medical questions, dentures, political rants, famous personalities, conspiracy theories, cooking tips and so on.

Add mice, bugs, bath tub rings, who's a good dentist, age discrimination etc to that list. We're a resource site for Amplitude Modulation on the amateur radio bands, not an AOL chat room. As tempting as it is to use the site as one-stop shopping for quick answers to unrelated topics, please be considerate of the majority of users who visit this site and use it as intended. TNX.

We now return to our regular programming, already in progress.  ;)